Matriarchy thread

True enough.

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it's called Yin and Yang

This thread is just /lonely virgins with femdom mommy fetishes/ general and most "content" is poorly articulated magical world shit. You already had 2 threads that went nowhere and yet you try again.

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Well, you know how the saying goes, if at first you don't succeed, make another thread about dominant women.

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This is just magical realming with zero actual worldbuilding ideas.

No.

how would you define a 'worldbuilding idea' then

For starters, its is done after jerking off, not during and before.

user I think your friends are waiting for you in the human male fighter mudcore general

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It's ruled by a dark LORD, dude. Saying this is a matriarchy is like saying Gaddafi's bodyguards made Libya a matriarchy. The only thing that gives them power is the fact they're boning the dude at the top. Maybe, if I'm being incredibly charitable, it's good for a bit of background lore, or a campaign where you have to defeat a king that's gone mad. But the whole setting?! How magical realm is it?

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why are you obsessed with my dick user?
I'm open minded, but it's a bit weird

Maybe for you.

Where's that thread exactly you wanna be victim?

ok so it's not really a matriarchy I don't care
but women are still above men in the pecking order and the dark lord could be anything given that it's a transdimensional being barely ever seen (and who may or may not exist) so let's say it's a dark lady if you feel like it
there, happy?
>How magical realm is it?
as much as Dune I would say
or maybe Conan or Gor

no, I just want you to fuck off, to be honest
feel free to make your own thread tobe a faggot
that's how this board is supposed to work after all

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>ok so it's not really a matriarchy I don't care
Then what the fuck are you doing in the matriarchy thread, you retard. Worldbuilding's in the general, go ask them there.

Id have left much sooner had you not replied to me. You live in a hell of your own creation

making conversation with you

because even if it's not *really* a matriarchy according to whatever standard you may have, it is enough of a matriarchy *for me* that I feel like contributing to the thread to get some feedback from like-minded anons
but enough about me
why are *you* here?

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and yet you keep coming back
funny how that works

Well you've gotten your feedback now- it's shit, and there are no minds like yours in this thread, so piss off.

>“Nothing in the world is as soft and yielding as water.
>Yet for dissolving the hard and inflexible, nothing can surpass it.”
>The Tao Te Ching: Chapter 78 - 6th Century B.C.E.

Still no. Being daft enough to equalize power dynamics to complex abstractions framework constituting psychometric and spirit forms that make up sexes is about as practical as any other semantical plays, yet power still cares not, because humanity is irrelevant to its operation.

Be like water my friend.

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you think you're hot shit don't you

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In the past I've presented Orcs as living a lot like lions. As I developed the idea it turned into a sort of matriarchy thing.

An Orc stronghold will contain a single adult male, his harem and the children. The Orc male just hangs around fucking and working out all day while the women do everything. Cooking and cleaning, sure, but also hunting, growing, smithing, crafting etc. The male doesn't really have any say in what goes on, he's just there as a stud. Hence; matriarchy.

Anyway, when sons come of age they get kicked out to live as nomads. Some die. Some band together. Some make it on their own. That's why there are always roving bands of orcs looking to rape and pillage. They lack bitches.

A nomad can challenge a stud at as the sun sets. They have their duel the following sunset. Winner keeps the stronghold and bitches. Loser gets kicked out or killed. A new stud will typically kill any male children in his new stronghold.

But yeah, matriarchy. A stronghold is owned and operated by female orcs. The local male is just there to keep the women satisfied and their children strong until a stronger male shows up to kill him.

Simple, but effective. Perfect for the Orcs, I love it.

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that's pretty cool
what happens when a roving band of nomads find a stronghold?
do they always respect the sunset challenge thing?
why not just smash everything and take the loot and bitches tho?

>what happens when a roving band of nomads find a stronghold?
Depends. Their leader will usually issue a challenge and, if he wins, tell his band to fuck off. They already know he's better then them, that's why he was the leader.

But sometimes they'll stick around in the area and try to impress the huntresses. Like lions, the females will cheat on their male with nomads they find desirable.

>do they always respect the sunset challenge thing?
Yes. They are taught by their mothers, before becoming nomads, to honor the setting sun. It's pretty much the only thing nomads respect. That and strength. Even suggesting they cheat the system can result in being killed by their fellows.

>why not just smash everything and take the loot and bitches tho?
The bitches will fucking murder you if you try.

Remember; they're the ones with the stronghold. With the forges and mines and years of experience smithing. Orc bands are equipped with stolen and scavenged gear. The females in the strongholds have actual fucking armor and weapons. If anyone attacks a stronghold (dwarves, giants, humans, whatever) it's the well equipped and professionally drilled women defending it.

nice
are female orcs also stronger than the males without their equipment?

I run PF, dude. There is no statistic difference between males and females.

It was an anthropologist, not a paleontologist. And I'm here, happy to see people have seem to have learned something apparently.

I actually really like this concept,
by the way.

>It was an anthropologist, not a paleontologist
That's funny, you really did seem to have a bone to pick with people.

wassup dude
still confusing the naxi and the mosuo?
you came back for more?

Happy to see you back!
By sheer coincidence I happen to be a proctologist and you make for an awesome case study.

>That's funny, you really did seem to have a bone to pick with people.
I have a bone with people spewing bullshit. That is only when people talk about REAL life AND say blatantly wrong things AND aren't willing to learn.

I've noticed between this thread and the last one people actually correctly draw the lines between things like matrilinear and matrilocal societies and "matriarchies" when referring real-world examples, and that is pretty much all I ever wanted.

I don't have an issue with fantasy world-building, if you want a fantasy matriarchy that is fine with me, I would not be on this board if I had. The hearth-based society being result of unnatural cold and monsters is a downright charming concept, for an example. And it actually works in the concept of MATERNITY, which people tend to forget is the root of the word "matriarchy".

I don't pick up fights because I want to have a fight, I do it because I think it is important to be somewhat educated about the world we live in. That is all.

I'm going to be honest user, I just wanted to make the pun.

It strikes me that the Spartans are so incredibly inflexible that even if 100% of property passed to women the Gerousia would still be named for old MEN. Then again given the actual dwindling of the spartiate class and the ostensible role of women as "the mothers of Spartans" there could have been a shift towards using them as broodmothers instead of enfranchising the bastards, don't know how they could parley that into power without magic though.

My underdark boar-tapir things have a similar dynamic. The wrinkle is that stonesickness ravaged them and the virile manes of their bulls in particular (some sterility but largely psychological, without defensive hair/quils they also kept getting deposed). Mane-hair had some to play a role not only in cementing the bull's glory (more braids meant more subservient braiders) but in communicating indirectly between clans via migratory bachelors so when clans we bulless matriarchs who managed internal affairs donned wigs and stepped forward.

These days masks and wigs are supposed to define who you are more than native tusk or mane, in practice bulls are expected to fast when musth's coming on and usually denied top positions on the clan council (all roles require taking on archetypal identities of ancient chiefs, being naturally closer to them supposedly makes males less likely to relinquish them).

Wild bull-chiefs posture but aren't too interested in rolling things back. Out in the wilderness where they reign the old ways work fine and if pressed they'll admit that the alchemies larger clans unfractured by rut can manage are a good for all. Still, plenty of young males unwilling to fast make their own way away from the watching mothers.

Oh, sorry, I did not pick up on that. I'm a cultural anthropologist, not a physical one.

>inflexible that even if 100% of property passed to women the Gerousia would still be named for old MEN
Firstly - it wasn't anywhere near 100% of property, it was probably not even half of it, but it was still very significant because it didn't flow.
Secondly - it was because that happened by accident, not by plan. I doubt people in that society were even willing to admit this problem out loud. If you have a society that is EXTREMELY conservative, like the Sparta, admitting a fault in your tradition isn't an easy task.
That said, there was a lot more that was cripling sparta. Namely the fact that the ruling 10% of population saw pretty much the entire remaining 90% as their enemies. It's a wonder they lasted as long as they did.

Even if that true it's still better than faggots butthurt about threads like this.

This is great and I will steal this. I feel no shame but I will tell my players that you are the source

>Cultural anthropologist
Unintentionally excellent euphemism for autism there, kiddo.

Yang is dominant over Yin dumbass

So I'm working on building a Drow society- or Noethyn, as I call them. The society places a lot of importance on the family and the home; and, as women are the centre of family life, they are seen as the head of the family, and property is passed from mother to daughter. The household is also seen as a microcosm of the state, and the state as a large family, so women naturally are in charge of the government as well.
The state is seen as defended by proper upbringing; if you raise a single generation wrong, it would have catastrophic results, and without proper education you'd be left like the humans, with not enough women of quality and learning to take the roles needed for society to thrive. No wonder they're so backwards when all their focus is spent on their militaries, and they're lucky to find a handful of applicants willing, let alone able, to be competent stateswomen. So the household is seen as the place where important work takes place.
It's also a slave society, which means that it is highly hierarchical, and manual labour is associated with servility and the lowest form of indignity, which further lowers the status of men. Highborn Noethyn may become overseers and still be seen as respectable, as it is through managing the slaves that all the tasks and upkeep of the household is accomplished; but it's not the sort of work that a woman would debase herself doing. It helps the men feel important, but it mostly just keeps them out of the house & gives them a reason to stay in shape.
Lowborn Noethyn men, meanwhile, are expected to join the military, which is entirely unrespected as an institution, being as far from the household as you can possibly go. They maintain order in slave quarters, they capture new slaves when supplies are running low, & they give the lowborn a distraction from their lot. But if you have to go to war with another state to win an argument, then whoever was in charge wasn't raised to handle the situation properly.

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But my main focus has been on making it seem believable, IE trying to come up with feasible gender expectations.
So for instance, Noethyn women are still objectified in a sense, but not for how attractive they are- their commodity is their ability to remain in charge. Things that we think of as girly, IE, things that exist to enhance natural beauty, like heels and make-up, are things that would get you mocked relentlessly in Noethyn society in the same way that a man wearing a girdle or a wig would IRL. It's seen as an admission of inferiority, and associated with new money & the lowborn. You have to earn respect through your accomplishments, & earn your looks through proper diet & cardio. You have to be the person your family looks to as their bedrock in times of crisis. You are responsible for the proper raising of the children & the expenses of the home. If you're a teacher, or a government official, then that expectation is even greater. buckling under it, or showing any signs of stress, is an example that you weren't raised properly, or that you have a lowborn character, or the emotional control of a man; either way, you are a failure that brings shame upon your house, and will be relentlessly mocked for it, to your face.
As a result, Noethyn women tend to put on a public façade of amused calm, but have a tendency to develop addictions as a coping mechanism. Figuring out which of your rival houses' matriarchs is secretly addicted to not!cocaine, or shagging their bodyguard on the side, or worst of all, dressing up like a man and fucking a member of staff, is the second favourite pastime of the great noethyn households... the first is figuring out how to exploit that information.

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Why do you keep making these threads
This is the third one in the row, and the first one wasn't even that interesting.

Men, meanwhile, are largely seen as just their for their utility and aesthetics. When they're not making their contribution to the next generation, they're far too volatile to have around a household, so they're encouraged to go express their masculine urges out in a job suitable to their position. Outside of overseeing the labour force or serving in the military, however, most professions are not seen as respectable for a man to hold; they don't have a head for business, the patience for academics, or the imagination for the arts. They can certainly study certain topics and express their creativity as a hobby, but as a career, they're best suited to those roles where they can feel important and take out their energy on the slaves. Which has the added benefit of keeping the slave population in check!
The only real power in society a man has is his desirability. A woman's attractiveness is based in both her standing, her attractiveness, and her ability to command; a man's is based only in the first two, & attractiveness tends to come out on top. They're seen as too volatile to be held entirely responsible for their emotions, but whilst that keeps them from the workings of society, it excuses the kind of behaviour that would be the social death sentence of a woman; so as long as he's attractive and preferably from a good family, he'll be held in high regard. Of course, to prevent men from abusing this kind of power, they are expected to act modestly, & public displays of sexuality are considered disgraceful behaviour; though in practise, having your exploits revealed would be equally embarrassing to your partner or your mother, since they're the ones who are supposed to be responsible for your behaviour. So whilst you'd be *severely* punished, it very rarely results in public humiliation- at least, not for the noble houses.

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Because each one gets more and more civil, and more and more productive. This one looks like it might make some great content so far, which is why i'm not even gonna read any of your replies, let alone spoil the thread.

I'll be honest, not the best pictures you could've made. The outfits don't really match the descriptions, in fact in some aspects they look flipped. And heroforge, much like any other worldbuilding site deigned to "help" with worldbuilding, is- as another user said- a crutch with wheels on the walking end.
But I do like the thought you've put into the idea, I love the way you tied a slave economy into a matriarchal society in a way that both makes sense and isn't entirely sexual. I mean, it is sexual, but it's more like "this says something about society" sexual then a straight-up dommy-mommy fantasy, and it makes sense.
Please, though, sit down & think about the aesthetic you want to go with, the male picture is horrendous.

The simple fact is that it can never work out, because society works based on the implied threat of force. A matriachy is inherently doomed, because the men pretty much have a monopoly on it.
This is why we don't have any flourishing matriachies, because they're not and were never viable.
It's like asking why a society based around homosexuality never became a thing.

So many generations later, the world got warmer, the warriors got tougher, and the mothers got shrewder. Herds of yak began staying close to the Hearth-Villages for protection, as the warriors had become exceptionally proficient and slaying them. The yaks provided milk for nourishment, their wool for clothes, and they were even an added layer of protection from the beasts. Their presence also provided a lot of fuel from their dung. Unfortunately, the yak did not stay forever, as they would move on to find their own food, depending on the season. Aside from tending to the hearth, it was mainly the women who milked, groomed, and shaved the yak, as men still went out to hunt.

Yep, that was me. I was actually inspired by Frostpunk for this civilization, but I figured hearthkeeping is a very common aspect in early human cultures anyway.
But wait, there's more!

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Matriarchies are shit, user.
There's a reason they never get past the stone age irl

The people were no longer afraid of beasts attacking the home, although men still ventured out to hunt for food as well as gather other resources. Instead, men would journey far to slay beasts for sport, to bring back trophies and gain prestige and status. The hides of legendary beasts became the symbol of strength and masculinity.

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With so little beasts to threaten the people, they were now comfortable with following yak herds. The fortified hearth-villages were not needed anymore, but the hearth itself was a sacred nexus for the souls of the villagers' ancestors. They would take the hearth with them, and daughters would carry torches alight in case the hearth itself would be extinguished, so that it could be relit with its own fire. Should the hearth extinguish, then the souls of all their ancestors would be lost.

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>What are the cornerstones of female power?
Pussy. Oh, and titties.

In the entirety of human history there has only ever been one matriarchy of any note at all, and that was the Minoans. Go ahead, google "minoan dress" or "minoan fertility goddess" or anything like that. Their entire culture was framed around showing off their tits. The bigger they were, the higher your status.

But eventually another civilization wiped them out, IIRC they were an island nation so the second boats became a thing they were done.

If someone proposed any sort of civilization like this in a campaign I would immediately assume they were a fucking weirdo trying to push their political fantasies and drop out of play, unless they were like an insectoid race. And even in those cases, it's questionable of those are true matriarchies as no one involved seems happy. Take bees for example. The males die after mating and are ejected from the hive or eaten. The queen is a prisoner they have to trap and force to take nuts day in day out. The workers are slaves. This is basically true of ants as well.

This is also the same reason Wheel of Time was sit, Fort Salem is garbage and other than that I can only think of one fantasy novel I've read where this was part of the plot, but other than the cover it was so forgettable I can't even remember the title. Main character develops psychic powers which among other things involve him talking to demonic goats. Clothing was reminiscent of the civil war or napoleonic era, he ends up in the military service but is taken prisoner by a matriarchal society that enslaves it's men with collars. Novel sucked, but on the plus side he managed to overthrow it by the end of the novel.

All that to tell everyone you are a whiny faggot too stupid to play tabletop games.

Only a dimwitted fool would ask "Why are women in-charge instead of men?" Its rather simple, they have live the longest, they are creative thinkers, and don't resort to fighting like the barbarous menfolk do when left to their own devices. A woman's natural ability to create life within them makes them closer to our Goddess, something none of us menfolk can do.

And that is just normal women, unable to wield arcane powers.

Thousands of years later, these hearth-village people have spread far and wide in an ever warming world. With no more beasts to threaten the folk, the onset of agriculture to allow sedentary living, cities developed. Gone are the hearths of villages for they have been replaced by open temples, where priestesses perform ceremonies in public for the entertainment and fulfillment of the people. It is proper to honor your ancestors, for their ghost wish to see their descendants thrive in joy in dance and song. Social stratification took place, and there came a separation of a nobility and common group. The hearth-villages were built on the concept of family, and so city-states were modeled after that; the High Priestess was the mother of the whole tribe and was expected to care for them like her children. Thus, social stratification became apparent, with a nobility comprising of a priestesshood well-versed in an oral-tradition of stories, dances, and song, and their male counterparts who were the strongest warriors given the most food and time to train and hone their martial skills.

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Unfortunately, with peace from monsters comes conflict from within. The world kept getting warmer, the monsters disappeared into the high mountains, and with so many children a city-state must provide for, they must seize such resources. Sons were not only expected to defend the hearth, but to seize fuel for the hearth, and their mothers will ensure that their sons will be kept safe. The mothers invented bronze to protect their sons, but that practice very soon became a man's profession. Still, the sentiment was still there; the priesthood would dole out the most nutritious food to their sons so that they grow to be the strongest warriors to seize the needed yak from neighbors for survival.

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With bronze weapons and armor, the men fought for glory. The ultimate goal was to absorb the enemy's hearth, to claim that your ancestors were more powerful than the enemies and thus are the rightful rulers. In extreme cases, enemy hearths would be outright extinguished and their population absorbed through forced unions to incorporate them in the proper family.

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I have an incredibly hot take to drop: the Krogan from Mass Effect are actually a matriarchy.
>but user, their chieftains are male
When you've got an entire clan of females who are separate from the males, a reproductive scarcity that prevents free breeding, and an honor based society that requires great victories and achievements to be able to court a female let alone actually be desirable to breed with, you have a matriarchal society. Plus with the highly ritualized society, I'd be willing to bet this is even more exaggerated than I've described.
>hypergamy + reproductive restrictions = effective matriarchal society.

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jfc I was drunk (and still am) writing this, I meant to say that warriors were so good at slaying beasts that docile yaks didn't mind staying near the humans.

Forgive me, here's a cute drawing of a hearth mother.

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Thank god you would leave out of the game yourself because you're clearly not a good player.

>as no one involved seems happy
As opposed to what? Obligation to be happy? Regimes don't need total happiness to work time enough.

>-Chess is gender segregated because women are less intelligent than men.
Women have same average IQ as men.
The difference between men and women IQ-wise in fringe value distribution, not in median.
Men have slower decent of the edges of the normal distribution graph. Meaning they have more people both side of the extreme ends.
The difference are near non-existent for vast majority of the population.

Men have people with exceptionally high IQ, and with exceptionally low one. These values are symmetrical, meaning that average-wise, they nullify each other.

This is why there are more great male chess players, but also more men in prisons and mental asylums.
See
youtube.com/watch?v=n691pLhQBkw&ab_channel=Gravitahn

This is pretty nice. I like it. I'd like to try my best to help by trying to pose a question I find interesting. If you don't find it interesting don't feel obligated to respond.
How would this society deal with it's malcontents? Male and female varieties but I'm more interested on the males.
Another question elaborating on my previous malcontent question.Also feel free to not respond.
If in theory, in this society, at a point in it's formation where most of the bases are already there but not fully matured (post ice age isolation ofc). A foreign traveler (Not necessary but seems like a more plausible option than it being about a local whose very particular circumstances sent him down this path) of high enough skill, intelligence and cunning to not die or be expelled immediately were to arrive into this society and generally cause havoc. Now, this traveller wasn't a parangon of morality in his homeland, but here he is specially jarring. He seduced daughters, matriarchs. He slayed many a son and older brother, maybe even a few old veterans defending the honor of their sister/Daughter/etc. Point being he essentially antagonized this societies whole way of living for a while. My question on this is how would this guy affect society?
In my opinion. the guy might become the subject of a few fables. A villain, opposed to all that is good and holy. To mom, the hearth, the clan, etc. His mythologization would of course make him more evil, exaggerate his habilities for legend's sake. And take away the nuance of the real guy. But it would probably have appeal to a very specific kind of male malcontent. One who for some reason dislikes his brother, his overbearing (in his opinion) mother. Their whole society of scolds (in his opinion) and their stupid fire worshipping religion (in his opinion).

To further add upon my autism.
I think this chracter would as time passes take in some aspects a hermaphroditic character. Combining elements of both strict gender roles. And of course his character would one of trickster, a lonely one, which prefers the cold forests rather than the cold warmth of the hearth villages, and other such contrasts between what is goodTM. and what is not-goodTM

The hermaphroditic elements could come in if at some point it's added into the story that the guy keept herds of yak.
Whether you like or even read this, thanks user. You gave me an opportunity to practice my mythology making skills and ideas.
Even if they are shit. At least I got practice.

...

practice makes perfect

>a hermaphroditic character
>trickster, a lonely one
That reeks of donutsteelOC which is totally not like other girls.

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Yaks can also be used like a mount, and since your setting seems like Ice Age one (or very much like one) they may grow bigger to be a proper megafauna, whose bones can be used to make instruments and furniture. Also yaks live in high altitudes and have trouble staying in low one, bear this in mind.

really nice but I 100% agree with are these drows monogamous btw?
I'm also wondering how would courtship work for attractive low standing commoners

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>unless they were like an insectoid race

Some quick facts for you:
Dragons and giant robots never happened either, retard.

>everybody must be the same human male fighter
ok

Shut the fuck up retard. Minoan Society was heavily segregated on Sex with men being depicted as swarthy and with little clothing and women being pale and covered up, essentially the opposite of what you just made me read. Minoan art doesn't like to show Women doing anything sexual or associated with child rearing much at all, which implies stuff like breastfeeding would have been very private. You took one note and tried to write a shitty incel tier fanfic on Minoan society.

women are cool
i like them

And the element of wood makes a mockery of water if you insist on going the Wu Xing route. I understand Yin and Yang better than dumbass. Yang is active and dominant. Yin is passive and submissive. There is also a little bit a Yang in Yin and Yin in Yang.

>please do not feed the trolls
I'm feeding a troll just by replying to this thread though

Thanks guys. I do get what you mean about the pictures, I'm not much of a drawfag so I thought I'd come up with some concepts just to have something visual- but I could definitely draw something like to go with my worldbuilding.
The feel that I'm trying to go for is, like, Gilded age America but in the antebellum south. If that makes sense. Like, a weird blend of meritocracy and aristocracy with old blood & new money trying to get the biggest slice of the pie through grand public works and private shenanigans.
Courtship also isn't really a thing- marriages are arranged between families, both highborn and lowborn. Since men move into the women's home, you want to make sure you know who you're inviting in, and that could take months, even years of vetting- or years of sucking up to the family you're trying to get your son married into. Marriages, as a result, can be quite loveless, so while they are officially monogamous, unofficially, there can be multiple partners involved.

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I kinda have a "tribe" that slowly emerges as a matriarchy. It's in the fallout universe and is the only thing I actually liked about the Fallout 4, I am using one of the vault experiments (Vault 75).
The super soldier children and the smarter children escape the vault and venture far north to Canada when they create their own tribe in the Uptopland. Due to the first generation being somewhat led to safety and protected by a girl, she became a leader of the Tribe when they established it. Since they are pretty new as a tribe they are still figuring the whole society thing out, but due to circumstances, they decided that the girl that lead them here must be pretty good at it and her daughter should be the next leader. Will it evolve into a full matriarchy I am not sure, but it starts as one.

Fetish bait matriarchies suck.

>He who knows, does not speak.
>He who speaks, does not know.

1984 is the ultimate matriarchy as it empowers female traits and suppresses male traits. Men dominate in areas they can act in, a society that squelches action and only allows conformity like its a giant public school is beneficial to women. The problem with matriarchies is that they fail to acknowledge the male vs female ranges of things like intelligence. Theres more really stupid and truly genius men than there are women but also a lot fewer midwit kinds of intelligences. Women on the other hand congregate around an average on the other hand. By forcing men to be average, it eliminates the threat of top 1% men taking over everything.

It still amazes me how much some people are unable to enjoy something different than the default status quo in fantasy.

Look man im just trying to make it interesting. This society has strict gender roles. With time this guy which antagonized it might be mythicalized into some unholy hermaphrosite that does bpth things meant for men and women and everyone is worse off for it. Of course the myth would vary from place to place. Hypothetically 1 place could have this guy be some warrior gigachad and the other a magically enchanced near succubus analog. I'm sorry if its too clicje for you but I'm trying. I can take an add some elements to make ot less cliche.

Remember this guy is supposed to be genuinely evil (in myth at least)

Silly things tend to take people out of the world. Societies that couldn't work are as natural as motorcycles in a medieval fantasy setting.

That is not only wrong, but also implies that people aren't into wacky things in medieval fantasy settings. Gigantic fire breathing lizards that can fly make little to no sense, endless amount of island nations which somehow always do human sacrifices yet never run out of corpses, endless wars about foes that can just pop back up in no time. All of these are dumb and wouldn't work yet people still like it. Hell, even random farmpeople leaving their towns to go become heroes wouldn't work. Yet here we are, having people hating the concept of women ruling a country much more than any of those things.

look it comes down to nature
Bigger=Better
in the world of spiders the female dominates (hell eats) the male
in (most of) the mammal kingdom males dominate as mammal breeding strategy has males fight for mates thus men are selected to be bigger
for a matriarchy to exist you need bigger females then males you can make a spider race where this is the case or some shit like that hell most men wont complain (some retards are even into getting dominated)
as for "matriarchies" you get certain systems where you have women higher in the hierarchal system then SOME men allah sparta but you dont have warrior queens at the top
a better example of one of these "matriarchies" is funny enough people's temple where you had all of jim jones' concubines high up in the command chain but at the end of the day he was still in charge
>women organizing the resistance against the dark lord
more likely theyd become his top lieutenants just like in the aforementioned jim jones nothing against women but there is a reason house slaves never rebel against their masters
>similar to the Bene Gesserit
I dont know how someone can read dune and not realize its a far right book and the bene gesserit is trying to create a male messiah via eugenics
dune is basically what futurist reactionaries/fascists want with Persian aesthetics if it wasnt written by a dude right of genghis khan (dude literally disowned his gay son lmao) the sisters along with pretty much all the main characters both good and bad would be the villainous oppressors of the poor and so on and so forth

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The whole point of Dune is to disparage the very notion of a messiah as a concept. It isn't 'far right'

wtf is wrong with motorcycles in a medieval fantasy setting

People interpret it how they wish. Maybe it champions charismatic leadership. Maybe not.

explain how Paul Atreides isnt a messiah come to fix the universe and is actually the bad guy

Read the books.

>your idea is shit
It's not like Queen Victoria ruled over the world's largest IRL empire. That would totally ruin immersion.

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Queen Victoria still ruled over a patriarchal society tho. It's not literally who's in charge, it's about the power structure.

Imagine if in user's fantasy, a woman manage to gather a huge pirate fleets under her command ! Totally unrealistic.

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See, now that's unrealistic. Sure, marriages can be arranged, & sometimes, usually down to circumstances, they don't meet before they get hitched; but usually they are expected to get to know each other, & in fact their chemistry can sometimes affect the decision on whether or not to go through with the arrangement.
Especially if you're going for Antebellum south, you can't just do away with social customs, that shit's integral.

She inherited the fleet from the warñord she was a concubine from tbf.

hahahaha imagine giving a bunch of women some shitty weapons and tell them *snort* to go fight the BBEG *chuckle* they totally would fear into the enemy *laughter*

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God forbid that women form an elite fighting unit that foreigners named after the most fearsome fighters they knew.

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We get it, user. Fuck's sake, you're not actually going to change his mind, this is just cringe and it makes you look bad.
Go fuck up his thread if you're still salty.

Dahomey. And they were essentially the kings harem.

Laskarina Bouboulina wants you to know you are a coward.

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I want Laskarina Bouboulina to know i've literally never thought about her at all, because i've never heard of her.

Maybe this is why sailors don't want women on their ship - they are afraid of being overshadowed?

The problem with the examples is that they are well-known specifically because they are the exception to the norm in their societies, whereas the premise of the thread isn't "women stronk" but how to write systems of governments run by women. Posting le ebin examples of girl power to troll teh incel isn't actually disproving the point that there are no examples of true matriarchies in the real world. And that's fine! Because we're discussing fantasy. We're worldbuilding.
Or at least, we would be, if we weren't too busy doing the ONE THING we were asked not to do in the OP.

Further more. Ahe obtained this position by shagging the previous pirate lord's son.

A lot of the details in my setting vary from culture to culture, but in all cases the matriarchy is fundamentally a product of the fact that the default “mode” of property inheritance is and literally always has been “mother-to-daughter”.
Also, most of the major countries have militaries where the “grunts” (infantry, NCOs, etc) are skewed towards men (the more prevalent “marriage-like” structures are in that society, the weaker the skew), while the officer corps (especially at the highest ranks) skews significantly female.

Hm. Fair point.
I'd imagine, then, that courtship would be something more likely to happen in highborn families, as their men are overseeing the slaves & are thus generally around to be courted. They get a chaperoned date or two, so that the chaperones can make sure that the other party is suitably socially acceptable and up to a certain standard; it helps that the pair in question get to test their personal compatibility, and sometimes, that's even taken into account. But since the marriages are more likely to be political, they'd have to truly despise each other for it to have any impact on the decision.
For lowborn families, though? Their men are expected to join the military, so they're away more often than not. That's where you get the purely business arrangements between families, & because the man is away- and also not held to the same standard- the main focus of scrutiny is the woman in question. The man may not even see the woman until he gets leave for the wedding, & they may go for ages without seeing one another.
Which actually gives me an idea for the kind of plot that a Noethyn family might come up with to disgrace their rival house; pretend to make peace, marry one of your sons off to their daughter, then, a few months after he's gone back to the front, have her graciously accept her family-in-law as quests for a few weeks... and have another son try & tempt her to adultery so they can act shocked and appalled. The other son wouldn't be told the plan was his own public humiliation, of course, but hey, every war has casualties.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilocal_residence
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrifocal_family
There's a ton of actual stuff to base ideas on, and even if there may not have been any true matriarchies there were and still are a lot of cultures, including big ones, that were matrilineal/local/focal. Lots of material to take as inspiration.

Some kind of matriarchy based on peacock-style handicapping traits gone wild would be neat. One of those ones reliant on magic to sustain though, reminds me of one theory that early language was driven in part by sexual selection (gossip being an analogue to grooming's status-building). Given some displays like blood flushed wattles can display health it might make sense if disease was once a bigger threat than predators making such display a better fitness indicator than rutting. Before going wild anyway.

not sure I understand what you're getting at but it seems interesting
can you rephrase that?

Sexual selection is distinct from natural selection, not only can it encourage traits that actively make the host less fit (so long as they still breed) but often it actively tends too. Take a bird that flies better if it has a longer tail: natural selection favours it because stronger fliers are fitter and females selecting mates favour it because they're vaguely aware that it increases the male's fitness and hopefully that of its offspring.

There comes a point where a longer tail stops helping but females still like it because the trait "liking long tails" was itself selected for. At this point there's no natural selection in favour of longer tails but there is sexual selection. Eventually longer tails are an active handicap but they're just so damn sexy that sexual selection keeps making them longer until natural selection against (getting spotted/eaten by predators say) holds it back. This still kinda works out for both male and female because sperm are teeny-tiny and so cheap. A female who lays a bunch of sexy but gimped (sexily gimped) sons is still better off for having done so because if one makes it they'll be able to breed a fuckload.

Anyway, it's a way of nerfing male effectiveness for fantasy races and since it has to start with a generally useful trait I thought of wattles. I was also thinking of a traait that wouldn't get in the way of the energy needed to fuel sapience and sociality. In retrospect that's kind of what I did with these guys . Though the bulls are eager to bludgeon each other when in musth much of the stonesickness' impact came from it nerfing their ability to groom (though since they also use petrifying spittle to sculpt their manes into weapons it was a practical handicap too).

There really should be some user id's, as these threads are pretty annoying to read through not knowing who is who, and I don't care to guess.
Would contribute, yet is pretty much a mudcore fag, but there are fun ideas to a certain extent in a matriarchal system. Problem is just these threads just seem to lack focus, for lack of a better word. Have not seen the earlier threads, just this one, but I assume they are even worse.

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That's mainly down to retards not knowing that they can simply choose not to reply to other retards.
Would definitely be down for more contributions if you've got one.

Oh and the gossip/grooming thing relates to early humans working out a lot of our group hierarchies and so breeding rights via social games. It's entertaining to imagine sexual selection pushing for a maladaptive/useless trait until it turns out to be a game-breaker, not that I think it's all that likely.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that by preferring mudcore there's no possible place for matriarchies? imo focusing on the hyperreal grit over regular realism makes it easier and if most things are supposed to be horrible you could sell it as some unstable cult/religious revival in the aftermath of yet another disaster. Those take varied forms irl let alone in a beige nightmare.

>There is also a little bit a Yang in Yin and Yin in Yang.
No. That's a matter of symbol interpretation, and a suboptimal interpretation at that, seeing as reduction of what constitutes a being to mere behavior removes all "being"-ness from them, which one may suppose, the people to which those symbols belong turned out like they do.
I've once seen a more appropriate variation, you can interpret yin yang as small sphere elements being actually primary elements, and 2 external swirls as "attraction zone", in this way there isn't a little bit of both (because it's not how it works) and as a result you have 2 entities and 2 fields, they spin around each other, attracting, seeking.

*suppose is the reason why the people

Only contribution I feel for right now and it is not really a good take I assume is: Often what they call matriarchal society is assumed to have been overtaken by patriarchal societies, but that most earlier societies had leftover structures from them. But in a world with gods and magic as a given, then if women was more inclined to magic, or were favoured by the gods, then the table might be turned. But that would more likely mean a high magic setting, as if it is low magic then warrior might still mean a lot more than divination. Problem is on average women are more average and men are more hit, or miss which has a better dynamic for a society. But with real magic and godly favour then men would have more reason to follow them and not subvert the power of women in society. For what I have read and heard, women at the start of civilization had much more power, but as time goes on they lose more and more until we returned to have more rights for women last couple of centuries.
No just something I like to throw out there, to see what people say. Still saying that I have some pretty controversial ideas of gender roles in my games and such, but also that there is always an exception to the rule.

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What are some at least semi-plausible ways that human women can evolve to be just and large and strong as men, if not more so? What about an increase in female births compared to male ones?

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Don't care so much about semi-plausible but one of the better justifications for an abundance of Amazons I've heard is the immediate aftermath of mass extinction. If Magic/GM is on the table parthenogenesis gives you a much narrower genetic bottleneck you need to survive and since every individual needs to be a survival machine as well as a gestation one you end up with STRONK women.

Sexual dimorphism where the females are bigger and stronger than males are not uncommon. Non-human matriarchal societies (or societies dominated by non humans) can be handwaved as a quirk of the species.

That too though I'm assuming 's question implies moving from A to B where A is the default human dynamic (unless I'm misunderstanding).

Plausible ways would be for humans to evolve in a manner that didn't involve sexual competition. So having the birth rate skew significantly female would actually be a big help in that. Men wouldn't have to evolve to compete with each other, & so extra strength would neither be an advantage nor a sexually selected trait.

That said, if you're committing to a matriarchy, then having the logic be that they are physically stronger than men is just so fucking lazy. "Oh, yeah, this is a matriarchy, and it work because, uh, women, uh, they're more like men and men are more like women so that's why." Just... no. If you're doing it for /d/m purposes, then whatever, but otherwise it just fucking sucks and it's been done to death, we can do better.

While I agree that it shouldn't be the be-all-end-all I don't see the problem with a few rehashed archetypes so long as the whole setting doesn't consist of them (and even that might some other groups well enough). What's your preferred take of late?

Well, this one
is mine, excuse the pictures i'm already working on some hand-drawn ones so obviously i'm quite attached to it. But this one
is absolutely brilliant.

Why did they remove the Patriarchy thread?

Does this give you the impression that it was any less of a shitpost than the troll's other vomit?

Anyway, I remember reading By Light Alone a while back. Not exactly a matriarchy but the setting's core conceit is that GM photosynthetic hair has made humanity starvation-proof. This is followed by the powers that be fucking over the bottom rung to an even greater extent. "Longhairs" can survive on sunlight and water but that's not enough to carry a child to term which leads to women being most motivated to work and on a diet solid food taller and tougher than their male counterparts (still malnourished by regular standards). The fact that society above them's as macho as ever in third world warlord states (ie everywhere outside superrich enclaves) leaves the in and interesting position.

> Not exactly a matriarchy but the setting's core conceit is that GM photosynthetic hair has made humanity starvation-proof.
That sounds incredibly retarded.
> photosynthetic HAIR

I mean, that's hardly a positive example. An example of women 'taking charge' was the Trung Sisters rebellion at around 40 AD.
The Vietnamese had a tradition of 'long-haired warriors' (i.e. women) fighting alongside the men, but they were fighting the Han Chinese. They thought the risks of being killed by women would demoralize the Chinese men. Instead, the Chinese conscripts went utterly berserk, they tore off their clothes and tried to rape captives mid-battle. In one battle where the Chinese were defending an allied village, they actually proceeded to rape all the women in the village THEY WERE DEFENDING because they couldn't stop.
Vietnam lost so hard it actually set back the role of women for centuries, and coined a saying: "If women have to fight, the battle is already lost". (Giặc đến nhà, đàn bà cũng đánh)
The sisters got captured, and were offered to the Emperor as concubines. He just said "I don't need traitorous brides, kill them."

The likely reason the Trung Sisters rebellion failed is because a lot of men sat on their asses when they could fought. There is a irony to women getting shit on for doing something about China taking over while men just hid when they could be helping

> Men decide that there's no shame in honorable surrender
> Women decide to fight on pointlessly and get thousands killed
> Can't deal with sex-starved Chinese men who use rape as a battle tactic
> Gets even harsher terms than surrender
> Get beheaded
Typical women: No skill, no strategy, just entitlement and spite
No wonder Vietnamese men decided to keep women barefoot and pregnant after that
Letting women make the decisions is disastrous

Yes, you are retarded like those men who did nothing when they had a chance to make a difference then turned around and went durr durr women making decisions bad durr

Its the same guy just ban evading, don't respond to him

The real trouble I have is making men dependent on women.
Women are naturally dependent on men for 9 months as part of our natural life cycle, which is making it difficult for me to come up with early origin Matriarchy systems.
I know I could just write it as arising later but I would like the matriarchy to run as deep and be taken as the norm.

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This sounds very video gamable, the whole capturing of hearths concepts. Like it something you would have in a video game as an objectibe. I don't know how to explain it very well.

Then go be a retard in some other board.

>How would this society deal with it's malcontents?
A given community already has established morals and values, so they would collectively shun and disparage, possibly even drive out those who don't play nice. Given the circumstance of these people, cooperation was necessary and the strict gender roles is simply just a strategy they adopted to cope with the extreme conditions. These values are commonly shared via sit-down storytelling sessions by elders to children, which was pretty much a primitive education system.

I do have a story for you. Not an outsider, but an extremely skilled warrior-hunter, let's call him Fub, felt he deserved more recognition for all the beasts he'd slain and food he returned. Fub had a few henchmen, a few younger men or brothers. They shook up the social order, but since they were the strongest warriors they simply just murdered the opposing men. This introduced violent conflict within the social group, something the community simply weren't accustomed to. After murdering rival men, they probably took on multiple wives because that's the degenerate thing to do.

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One young woman had a husband who stood up for the hearth mothers, but was slain by Fub. The young woman had a very young son who Fub wanted to kill before he grew up to even try to avenge his father, so she ran off to the wilds with her son into the blistering cold. It was miraculous that she survived, she probably followed a yak herd for protection. At the expense at even her own health, she made sure her son had more than enough to eat, so that he would become big and strong when he grew up. She might have also hunted herself, which is against her gender role but in this circumstance it was necessary. This part of the story is important because it puts a mother's ability to share warmth so high that it's okay to break some rules to do so.

I just call them yaks, minimally they should just be thought of as wooly bovines. I just think yak sounded cute. I haven't developed them so much yet though, and it's not a bad idea to have them be sexually dimorphic in order to support their strict gender role society, with bulls being extremely large.

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There's something wrong with your mind that when thinking of women your first thought is pregnancy.

As the boy aged, he indeed grew to be big and strong, but also morally upright due to the warmth given to him by his mother. Alas, mother became gravely ill, and by custom she should be given the Hearth to join their ancestors. The boy journeyed back to the hearth-village with his mother, slew Fub and his brothers, maybe a few of his sons who fought back, but spared all who did not wish to fight. His mother died that day in the village, and was finally given to the hearth, and the boy became one of the leaders of the community. This story became a cornerstone of the values of the culture; a mother gives more warmth to her son than she can afford, and a son repays her mother's warmth with his strength. I think the hermaphrodite idea is interesting, and can especially be seen as something as a demonic concept for a people who relies on strict gender roles. But I would say that on the onset of theocratic city-states governed by the matriarchal priesthood, Fub would remain a man in the stories to keep men from becoming evil, as well as to encourage young boys to stand up against men like him. Men after all can easily physically overpower women.

This tradition can very much become a codified sport where the goal is to capture the other team's fire. Like say each team has only one torch, and the goal is to bring flames from the enemy team's hearth to yours for points.

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>In the entirety of human history there has only ever been one matriarchy of any note at all, and that was the Minoans.
We literally have no idea what Minoan society was like, outside of their ruins and their artwork. We can't decipher any of their language yet.
>Go ahead, google "minoan dress" or "minoan fertility goddess" or anything like that.
There is no known Minoan fertility goddess, because there is no known Minoan god period. >Their entire culture was framed around showing off their tits.
It's true that surviving Minoan artwork seems to indicate that going bare-breasted was socially acceptable for women. It is a WILD leap to go from that, to "their culture was based around that one thing we know."
>The bigger they were, the higher your status.
...Look, dude, if pseudo-historical magical realms are your cup of tea, then best of luck to you & I hope you enjoy HOTD. But don't pass it off as actual history.

Funny thing is there is a branch of evo-psy arguing that the human mind's most impressive abilities are like the peacock's tail: they are courtship tools, evolved to attract and entertain sexual partners.
Human language evolved to be much more elaborate than necessary for basic survival functions.
From a pragmatic biological viewpoint, art and music seem like pointless wastes of energy.
Human morality and humor seem irrelevant to the business of finding food and avoiding predators.

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women are not supposed to be strong
women are supposed to be cute and cunning

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because fuck you
that's why

>From a pragmatic biological viewpoint
Not pragmatic, just extremely reduced to mere mechanics.

I got caught off-guard and your story just put a tear to my eye user

>HOTD
Highschool of the Dead?

What to you mean?

It's what GRRM nicknamed House of the Dragon.

Fuck me
My stoned out of his mind self read this as minarchy thread. it took a bit of confusion before things finally clicked
Godspeed lads keep writing about your swords and sorcery bitches

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Remember guys, we all started out as females - physically and phenotypically speaking.
During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; that is, all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically female.

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That's their most important feature as a woman (Only talking biological, not as a person). Women bear the next generation.

Biology by itself operates in most base paradigms only seemingly, such as survival or adaptive evolution, but actual complexities of intelligent design, emergent or not have other parameters, and works generated by emergent intelligence are parts of those complexities.

Right, yet wrong, this is merely physical structure implementation in material reality.
Sexes are already inherently different from the start as they must be.

Not really no.

And only partial comprehension of it, too.
The folding and unfolding processes are optimizations to allow differentiation elegantly, genetically men are already themselves, and were so for so long as both genetic lines existed.

>were so for so long as both genetic lines existed
NTA and excuse my ESL but what?

>intelligent design
might as well say 'a wizard did it' at this point
but this is /tg/ after all

ok guys how about a sci-fi setting where matriarchy is enforced by AI and robots and stuff for whatever cultural reason?
I'm thinking about a post-scarcity society where you can upload your consciousness in a body of whatever sex you like but with strict gender roles and segregation and probably dialed-up gender dimorphism
you could choose to be a man to become a soldier or playing sports and choose to be a woman to become a nurse or taking care of children or whatever

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I'd really like to see those sources because I read a lot of evo-psycho literature, and I've never heard anything of the sorts, because it sounds insanely fucking stupid.
The absolute vast majority of all evo-psycho literature and studies focuses on one thing above everything else, and that is cooperation. Which is almost universally accepted to be the single most important, and glarringly unique human evolutionary trait. Everything else, including language and almost all forms of tool use, is proportional and logical consequence of that particular evolutionary path.

Neither art, not morality, nor humor are in any way irrelevant, that is like a 10 years old's point of view.
Language and art serve as ways to preserve and communicate experience - informational cooperation being the most significant aspect of our unique biology. Music is known to be directly related to coordinated actions, morality is a system of shared deliminations of cooperative behavior, humor is just a way to exercise the capacity for problem-solving quick paradigm shifts as well as mediating potentical excesses in cooperation-related dominance hierarchies.

Absolutely none of that is "irrelevant" to our survival, all of it is directly related to cooperation and other survival skills.

Check out Tomasello, Tooby/Cosmides, Axelrod, Trievers and others.

Field bro!
>Lost in the cosmic sense

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here it is user

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Thanks.
Quick glance through it - it 90% absolute garbage, 10% interesting ideas.
The guy teaches fucking management, which might explain this.

Hadn't the monarchy lost it's power by thta time?

Based patriarcal han chinese, showing these henpecked vietnamese men how warfare is done.
Additionally, guess who gets eaten first in a no surrender situation.
youtube.com/watch?v=WpccLU6polA

>it is not the gash they fear, But my divine power

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Whybisn't this on /wbg/?
Why do you need your own thread for this?
The last thing /tg/ needs in mew generals

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women > men

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Because it is as a concept set in stone and there is no reason to try and improve/discuss perfection.
Matriarchy on the other hand needs a lot of mental gymnastics to appear plausible for a setting that is not just a magical realm.

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Wow man leave some pussy for the rest of us.

it took you less than 4 minutes and 40 seconds to dismiss the work of someone with a PhD in cognitive psychology from Stanford?
good job user

Considering FTL's all over the place in otherwise relatively hard sf I'm okay with one big lie so long as the corollaries are explored reasonably. Specifically it's not really hair, iirc it's a pitch black metamaterial secreted by nanite symbionts.
Wouldn't minarchies by their nature only be usable in a few ways since by definition there's as little to them as possible?

generals are cancer
this thread has some comfy potential imo
not our fault we had to make three (3) of them to eventually get rid of the incel screeching

post matriarchs

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Yes.
It's not a scientific book to begin with. It's purely sensational, pop tripe. The guy may have a paid degree, but as stated, he teaches fucking management.
As I've said, I study this shit a lot. This is nowhere near a sound academic study. It you work in the field, you'll get an eye for that quite quickly.
May be amusing read, but academically, and thus in term of validity of the ideas, worthless. The guy is "solving" problems that have been solved for four decades now. The book was published in 2000, and I don't think this guy has kept up with evo-psycho journals since 1962.

This is a general.

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no

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scrote leave

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You can't fetish spam your way out of a bad thread bro, let it die in peace.

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/mom/ matriarchy general

well apparently you don't study this shit enough to be aware of a pretty well known publication from 22 years ago
just concede you ignore what doesn't fit with your biases
this is psychology 101 after all

still mad your janny application was rejected?

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Please OP make this happen.

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Show me where it says general in the op.

>well apparently you don't study this shit enough to be aware of a pretty well known publication from 22 years ago
It certainly isn't well known in evo-psycho circles, which are the ones that kinda matter more here.
Because it's not really an evo-psycho study.

>just concede you ignore what doesn't fit with your biases
What biases, you moron?
My "bias" is that something that can't pass a fucking peer review isn't important for that fucking field.

seconding this
all hail to our queen btw

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Even if it doesn't outright say that it's still true.

Third.

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OP here... no.
It's comfy *now,* but it attracts trolls like moths to a lamp. And honestly, there's enough in the topic for some great discussion & productivity over a few threads, but a general would get old real quick.

Nah and I don't think they say no to anybody actually wanting to clean this shit for free, just feel like 'trolling/having a laugh' since most stuff on /tg/ is pretty stale at the moment.

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Dude, just admit you fucked up calling it a general. Tiny mistake, understandable mistake, not something worth the worse embarrasment that is clinging to the mistake like an insecure retard.

well excuse me for giving more credit to a well known evolutionary psychologist than some random user full of himself flinging insults on a chinese frog breeding forum

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Bitch this is a general in all except name.
And there's a bunch of trolls here already.

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The only thing seperating this and the Warmahordes general #3 is a title, your immature response betrays you.

You're still gonna make another one after this aren't you?

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General is something that gets posted every time the thread archives, the only reason we've had three threads is because it took that long to get a proper discussion going.
And yeah, that's kind of the point.

So you turned this into a general in all but name. Why do you think generals exist? They exist because sometimes you don't get a good conversation one day but the next you do so you keep a thread going.

No, but since you clearly won't listen to good sense, you do whatever you like & don't say I didn't warn you it was a stupid idea.
>NO I WASNT WRONG IM RIGHT BECAUSE IT *FEELS* LIKE A GENERAL
Fuck off.

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Artoria isn't really a good example of a matriarch seeing as she cosplayed as a man to rule over the Brits. She's cute though but I prefer Gareth

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Holy shit you're so mad for no reason. No wonder your thread gets attacked by trolls daily, you cant help yourself.

The guy isn't a well known evolutionary psychologist. He has FUCK ALL credits.
Look, this came around the same damn time as Pinker's Blank Slate. Which was Pinker's first foray into Evo-psycho. Blank slate contains a chapter on art which makes the same error of postulating that we don't have academic explanation for evolution of institutions such as art.

And that book god SO FUCKING TORN APART for that one single chapter that Pinker STILL apologizes for it even today. And Pinker at least had the excuse of being a linguist by original trade.

There is a difference between what academicians consider reliable and valuable research, and what the wide public that does not know anything about the subject matter buys as an afternoon reading.
And this book falls squarely into the latter category. It isn't an academic book, the guy has fuck all publication history, and has no actual credit in the field.

He wrote a fucking pop-book that is interesting to people who don't know the subject matter. That is all. There really isn't that much to discuss - the fucking literature is out there.

yep generals are cancer
but we could make it monthly for a while or something
maybe mix it with a cheesecake/character art thread
the trolls seems to have mostly been driven away
we should just keep up a strict ignore/report policy as best as we can

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>No U
Cute.

is this a crime?

>evo-psy
Evo psych is astrology for men

Likely more popular with a certain audience, and might have less trolls. Maybe not make a next thread for this general is a good idea yeah, or maybe at least wait a while.

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If it quacks like a duck.

>the trolls seem to have been mostly driven away
That or they've changed patter to being plants & cheesecake spammers, but hey, i'll take it.
And i'm glad somebody gets it. It's a worldbuilding thread on a niche subject. We don't have, fucking, *early modern economy* generals. If ya feel inspired, great! Go work on something & take it to the worldbuilding thread.

We already have weekly character art threads and barely disguised cheeseckae threads.

If it recites like a parrot. Get a different fucking patter, man.

are you the same guy who was an 'anthopologist' in the last thread?
or is this capslock insanity a common trait among online pretend scholars?
tl;dr btw

The only parrot here is OP making the same thread repeatedly but refusing to admit being one

that's the point
maybe we could find some kind of safe haven in there

Why would it have less trolls, that's retarded logic. Generals have fucking *dedicated* trolls. They develop fanclubs ffs, because after a while, when everyone else runs out of things to say, they're the only user that's consistently entertaining.
Look, i've already said that it's a bad fucking idea, but that's never stopped anonymous before. I'm not filling the thread to bump limit over a stupid argument about whether or not the thread should be a general because of all the interesting discussion that, in case anybody didn't notice, dropped off considerably around the time people started talking about fucking generals.
Took 5 whole minutes to think of a No U joke, huh? Well, you tried to take my advice at least, that's worth one more (you).

all these threads don't have the same OP
ask me how i know

What, three is the magic number?
Why stop there?

'cause you're the OP of the last one, & you didn't make this one. Not hard to figure out.

>are you the same guy who was an 'anthopologist' in the last thread?
I don't think you know what airquotes are for, kid.

ok, see you in the next cheesecake thread guys

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>An interesting point i'd like to bring up, however, are those societies with a higher-than-usual amount of female power. Like, for instance, ancient Sparta.
>youtube.com/watch?v=ppGCbh8ggUs&t=2s&ab_channel=HistoriaCivilis
>skip to 03:40
>It isn't hard to imagine how a matriarchy could evolve out of a system like that if it continued on.
That's a quirk in a flawed system, which in the end made the spartans obsolete as a concept for civilizations to build upon. Out civilized by good ol' patriarcal democracy. Was a fetish though for a lot of greeks it seems. Those beautiful dominant, strong spartan women, although they was still not amazons in any capacity.

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>kid
thanks for the confirmation

Nah senpai it didn't take him 2 paragraphs to get there, probably just bait

he really nailed the capslock part tho

>Look, i've already said that it's a bad fucking idea, but that's never stopped anonymous before. I'm not filling the thread to bump limit over a stupid argument about whether or not the thread should be a general because of all the interesting discussion that, in case anybody didn't notice, dropped off considerably around the time people started talking about fucking generals.
It's going pretty quick now after this discussion started, though. Let's nail this coffin as tight as we can, 1 post about next thread = 1 nail in this coffin of a thread.

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Sensible take. Nothing wrong with focused discussion thread but unless the subject's exceptionally broad they go stale fast as a general. Honestly if it weren't for trolls demanding a reset three threads back to back would have been too much.
To be fair I wouldn't mind the odd "proto-globalism" thread though it'd likely invite trolling of a different kind.

However rich unclosable loopholes in the Spartan way made them the women were still strong enough to birth strong sons rather than warriors themselves. Amazons have way more to do with the Scythians, everything looks conspicuous female empowerment compared to the Hellenic default.

That was a confirmation, and would be even without the word "kid". Great job on that, have a cookie.
Seriously. Can you not even read? And yeah, I fucking made it clear that I do evo-psycho in the previous thread.

The loophole itself is interesting to think about, though. Imagine a system like that in your setting, goes through a terrible period of back-to-back wars, widow stocks start going to the fucking moon, eventually they win, but kinda like the roman republic, it's won itself a broken system. In this case, one that's accidentally fallen into matriarchy of the gold-diggers.

You're just bending the knee to the trolls.

You have /wbg/

The worldbuilders have /wbg/. The fetishists have cheesecake threads and /lewd/. Also, issues.

I suppose the late republic is a decent comparison. In either case the collapse would be imminent either way though it'd be interesting if a not!Caesar (probably more administrative/plutocratic genius than military/political) arose from among the magnate-wives and defined the new status quo.
Not him but trolls necessitating resets aside I don't see what aspect of this subject makes it indefinite generalworthy rather than a pleasant conversation had every now and then.
Don't see much cheesecake in this thread beyond the strawmen trolls keep trying to force down others' throats.

>implying this thread isn't for pseudoscience shitposting

>the Spartan way made them the women were still strong enough to birth strong sons rather than warriors themselves.
If they birthed 'strong children' as a default they would not need their very harsh selection process.

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Indeed, is pretty fun idea to add, that because of a quirk and maybe some divine intervention a society was turned matriarcle.

I mean, yeah. Eugenics wasn't nearly so important as normalizing vicious callousness. What I mean is that Amazons owe more to people other than the Spartans. In reality (that forms the basis of myths) that is. For fantasy anything goes.

>Caesar
You mean the whoring Queen of Bithynia?

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>Amazons have way more to do with the Scythians
What I mean is that Amazons owe more to people other than the Spartans. In reality (that forms the basis of myths) that is. For fantasy anything goes.
Ah well, fair point.

Sure, why not make her a habitual cross-dresser while you're at it. Always did like Hatshepsut's false beard.

Hey, you know those nu-dnd streams like D2- where the BBEG is always "the system!" or "the man, man!"
Well you guys just gave me an idea for my next campaign.

It really fits into the queer coded villain trope.
Even men are better at being women in some cases. Maybe that's why there is no matriarchy, because when there is ground for one to happen, then the role of queen is taken by a queer male.

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Come to think of it provided the fem!Ceasar rises to power because the plutocratic/administrative tools available to her fit the crisis at hand (maybe military disasters sapped the military who'd otherwise enforce populist land reform) you might eventually end up with a society similar to . The empire's much as it was except that the male/military associated conquest is downplayed in favour of stewardship of existing gains. Arguably Rome did it at a later stage (without matriarchy) anyway as securing borders became more important than expanding them though imperial succession would need to be different given how bloody that was.

>gay man gets tired of all the faghags bothering him
>decides to upend society

No clue what you mean, but glad to have helped with your campaign ideas.

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Eh, more the case that concepts of sexuality in the ancient world are distinct from modernity. The past is a foreign country after all.

Matriarchies are fun to include as dysfunctional, backwards villains who defy nature while bring forced to live amidst it due to never being able to progress past a Neolithic society. Dozens of amazons die on every hunting expedition while the men are force-fed a special concoction of herbs and berries to keep them docile and impotent so they don't overthrow the women.

Funnily enough this is exactly what the concept of matriarchy was originally invented for.

For a more dysfunctional society look at the later byzantine history, where being in power was more important than the general empire. Also the secret history of secret history of procopius is a good read, for ideas/inspiration on how some women could take over the empire using their cunning and weak husbands for their own gain.

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A campaign where the party has to travel around an empire on the brink of collapse, fighting barbarians and intrigue and plots by all the petty powers that have risen up to benefit from the chaos, including the widow matriarchs & their monopoly.

Indeed, indeed. A lot of stuff in the past is being appropriated with modern terms to suit an agenda.

Case and point: matriarchies, an utterly made up concept to shill agendas.

Well done.
/thread

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>an utterly made up concept to shill agendas.
True, though most people don't realize what the original agenda actually was.

And yet here you are forcing politics into what was otherwise a general ramble about the ancient world. That purge was nice while it lasted.

>the ancient world
A fictionalized, politicized version of it, yes.

Cant have shit on this board

How is there 56 posters in here, it feels like we are only 5?

His retardism cannot be helped

>fictionalized, politicized version
Just like ancient authers would have wanted it.

Any Forums sees everything as politicized because they force politics wherever they go. It's why you're unwelcome.
Probably because there are only about 4-5 posting right now. Can't comment as to the rest of the thread.
I know but I haven't much to add to or any other on-topic ideas at the moment.

Sounds pretty good. Could be different cults with matriarch warlords/priestesses since the people of the dying civilization feels betrayed by their old gods.
>Minoan collaps
>Bronze age collaps
>Fall of rome
And so on, and so on.

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>I fucking made it clear that I do evo-psycho in the previous thread.
nope
you were a 'cultural anthopologist'
what's next 'dietetician'? 'astronaut'?
this is my last (You), cherish it
thanks for the cookie btw

Not the evo-something, just asking. Did you read through the whole last thread?
Also no worries about him this thread is nearly at 300 and we can lay this wrench to rest.

Its comforting to know that there is effectively 0 difference between screeching bluehairs and Any Forumsfags

Same tactics, different goals in a sense.

>men are better at being women
men are better at being what men expect women to be
ftfy

youtube.com/watch?v=1x2G7QWHabg
Agreed, there is a reason women generally needs make-up.

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>everything is political
>literal feminist leftist catchphrase
Muh pol you fucking faggots are retarded.

The Olympics don't like at this rate ciswomen are literally the nigger version of their own gender. Almost Luke the guy who made up gender had alienation from norms and morals as an explicit goal.

Bump.

They also would've approved of mocking and raping women, your point?
>Any Forums sees everything as politicized
Pretty sure you have leftists and their solid two decades of "the personal is political" to thank for that one.

Let's nail this coffin together bumpfag.

>They felt betrayed
>so they trusted women
Lol
Lmao

You literally posted a part 1-3 Jojo. There's nothing feminine at all about this picture.

>They also would've approved of mocking and raping women
Project more
Homo Homini Lupus Est

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Isn't this just admitting to spamming/flooding?

>Project more
Don't need to, Romans loved rape and loved mocking women. Greeks also loved mocking women.

>Pretty sure you have leftists and their solid two decades of "the personal is political" to thank for that one.
I didn't know that Any Forums was so weak mentally as to succumb to leftist ideology. What a shame.

>you were a 'cultural anthopologist'
I still am.
Suprisingly enough, the field that studies how human cultural institutions formed in relation to our biology and evolutionary history IS A PART OF ANTHROPOLOGY.
And I've stated through out the previous thread several times how I consider evo-psycho, and in general biologizing outlooks on humanity absolutely vital for the field. There was an entire prolonged discussion about misunderstanding about the nature of "evolutionarism" in anthropology, and from that a rather silly one about whenever humans are by nature selfish or not (pro-tip, it isn't).
For someone who seems to be quite obsessed with me now, you sure as hell aren't paying much attention. Which is a shame, you could actually fucking LEARN something for the first time in your life.

I did also mention I studied a fair bit about gender relationships in particular (hence why threads about "matriarchies" are interesting to me), which is once again, pretty much impossible to do without consideration for fucking EVOLUTIONARY PERSPECTIVE ON OUR BIOLOGY.

The real question is - why are YOU so insistent on talking about shit you don't have the capacity to discuss?

I wouldn't know, I only surf hobby board like /tg/, Any Forums, and /po/ where you fags have been pulling this shit for years now. You certainly seem to know a lot about the goings on in Any Forums, though.

No, it made the off-topic discussion about next thread stop, more or less.
I am adding to the discussion as my way of make this thread go to 300, so not spamming in that regard. I both like and hate this thread at the same time, but glad there was some nice parts in here.

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>why are YOU so insistent on talking about shit you don't have the capacity to discuss?
To push an agenda and socially shame those who disagree with me.

Took the fucking mods long enough, the abject faggots. I bet tranny jannies were gunt guarding the thread as usual.

My god, based mod, I guess?
That's it for me guys, have a nice rest of this sinking thread.

Ya'll got move to Any Forums.
Everyone point and laugh.
LAUGH AT THE NERDS.

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