I know this isn't a Christian board, but I don't think most forums are rife with those interested in a nuanced discussion. That's not a put down, but rather, is my reason for posting this here. I like you guys, and I trust that some of you would be interested in theological discussion. Anyway:
It makes no sense that we all fall short of the glory of God in a world where we can pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:15), where we can always, by our own free will, choose the path revealed to us by faith – i.e. always listen to the call of wisdom (Proverbs 1:20.) In other words, if the decision to sin is a matter of free will, how is perfection not possible? I refuse to believe it at this point. I can see how humans can never be truly perfect (as Christ was) but there must be something similar to perfection which we can achieve. The Cathars of medieval Europe believed the same thing, that we can rise to a greater level of perfection.
I do understand Romans 7. That the good Paul wills to do he does not do and the sin Paul wills not to do he does. Is this burden one that lasts forever? Is our tendency to sin absolutely unassailable? Or is there, at the very least, some middle ground between sinful and pure?
It even reminds me of some levitical law I was reading recently that, if I'm understanding it correctly, seems to imply that, in their cleanliness practices, there is a condition between unclean and pure. I refer to it as "impure." This, I suppose, is what I'm talking about. A state that represents a separation from the world which is so complete that we are no longer filthed by the sin within us and around us, though we still aren't and can't be totally "pure."
What do you guys think? Are we always, no matter what, subject to our own sinful nature, or can we ascend above it?
I feel we can ascend above it. It gets easier the more others ascend above it as well. Sort of like mirrors for each other setting a new standard of human behavior as a base level.
Samuel Lewis
Men don't have a "free will." Men are slaves to sin. Men have minds that are held captive to sin. Men have hearts that are continually seeking evil. Men are born haters of God and enemies of God, not neutral. Only a man that has been born again (receives a new nature) can truly repent and believe. Even he will never be completely free of the effects of sin in the flesh. He can however, and should, make war with his sin. Total freedom from sin is experienced in the next life.
Zachary Rivera
Thank you for your answers. They help one's understanding.
Easton Nelson
You should wary not to encroach on those who congregate in the name of Christ.
Christopher Morris
bad things happen when i pray, i have no idea why, but it's seriously as if god is telling me not to pray. i recently threw out some religious icons i had around the house. the mormons text me every once in a while to check up on me, maybe one day i'll text back.
I used to be a Christian but left the faith, but I still believe that the teachings and words of christ are pure. I think to answer your question it's important to look to Genesis and understand where sin comes from. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they gained knowledge and understanding, but also understood their own sin. Sin comes from self-awareness and understanding, but such knowledge and understanding can also help one avoid sin. I think it is helpful to look outside the realm of Christianity to Buddhism, in which Siddhartha teaches to detach oneself from worldly desires in order to reach purity. If I understand your question, though, you say that there is an inherent sin that we cannot be rid of. I think there is truth to that, as we are marred by the knowledge we possess and cannot be rid of that. I don't know if that made much sense, but I hope it's an acceptable answer.
Eli Murphy
Most religions have a ton of "plot holes". That's what happens when you take a bunch of tribal religions of word to word traditions, combine them over a few thousand of years, write it down, translate it wrong, edit it by cult leaders with an agenda, and then translate it wrong again.
Mason Allen
I appreciate this response, and you do understand my meaning. For instance, I was just reading Hebrews which does often use a lens that takes into regard our consciousness of our own sins, as well as God's consciousness of our sins which is washed away in the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ.
Your answer, then, is directly in line with what I believe, and is actually a clearer account of it. We must detach from worldly desires, but we will never be free completely from sin.
If only there was a way to make us unknowing of sin as we once were. To be unaquainted with it so to speak.
Jack Roberts
Please continue to pray. Also, deny not your constant study of the word as well as a steadfast avoidance of sin. Accept all reproof that comes of your journey. Through this effortful search, Jehovah will certainly reveal himself to you.
Nicholas Cruz
This shit is super weird and complicated and makes me so happy thst I'm a pagan. If Oðinn sees me having impure thoughts about some girl its alright becaiuse he's having them same thoughts too. Friends, leave the shackles of YHWH behind and embrace the gods who deserve your worship!
Thomas Stewart
Most sane post in the thread. Odin has hundreds of names in different cultures. He's the most real god there is.
Otherwise just go with buddhism or Taoism. You don't need gods to be a good person.
Jordan Fisher
A man of good sense, I see
Brayden Ross
Cursed with knowledge
Ethan Robinson
just so you know, from a mythology nerd in Norway, Odin was based off of Zeus. Enjoy.
Jonathan Parker
Ever since i was a kid i didn't understand the whole "you are sinful!" rhetoric. I've never willfully done anything wrong, any harm. I've helped those around me whenever I reasonably could. I am happily married and have a kid which i treat with utmost love and care. I also take care of sick animals. If that's not good enough, then what do they want from me? I quit religion a long time ago because of the whole imposed guilt. A good father doesn't do that to his children. OP since you obviously are interested in having religious beliefs as part of your life, consider thinking outside of the box. God and the Bible don't need to be one and the same. As you already noticed, the teaching you're referring to is contradictory. Would a God make such obvious mistakes? Or would a human. The whole "you need to believe the Bible is perfect to believe in God" sounds a hell of a lot like propaganda, don't you think? Find your own way to God.
Chase Hill
I'm swedis you cod sucking, lusekofte wearing, twat. Idk how much proof there is of that, but I guess most gods where influenced by other religions. Its pretty obvious I guess. But odin is way more human than zeus imo. And in the asa faith, humans at least have some chance at a goof after life. The ancient Greece picture of the underworld is pretty bleak
Daniel Ramirez
Ever heard of the Elysian Fields? Of course you haven't.
but I wasn't talking about how humane they are, I'm commenting on your "Odin has so many names all over the world". it wasn't Odin
