Free will isn't real

Either everything is deterministic and set in stone before it even happens because of prior causes that are going to lead up to it, or some things happen without being determined by a cause, meaning your will (or anything else) can't be the cause of those things because if they were caused by your will they would not be acausal.

It's either determined or random, neither of which means it's free. Your will itself in fact is determined by prior causes and/or randomness which you can't control (because if you could control it it wouldn't be random)

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Just touch grass retard. Have sex.

Free will is real but there's usually a will greater than our own.

Not an argument.
How can it be real?

>Not an argument.
No one cares vaush wanna be onions boy. Just HAVE SEX.

That really doesn't make sense.
You can do whatever you want.

when the greater will (lol elden ring) leaves you alone, your will is free. but if the greater will is imposing on us, then we fight against the current.

In a way it isn't, indeed. Some things are set in stone way before it happens. For example, your genetics, your domicile, your childhood environment; none of these are things you have any free will over, and you never will. Such has always been determined from the start, and will be this way, forever, whether you accept it or not.

you sound like a retard. open up a philosophy book instead of trying to be an edgelord.

I don't think the opposite of determinism is that choices don't have causes, user. It just means your choices are genuinely caused by you and are not merely the effects of causes preceding your act of choice-making.

>You can do whatever you want.
Can you really? I'm not so sure. And is free will really just being able to follow your desires? If so an animal also has free will, meaning it isn't something exceptional really.

Free from the compelling physical effects of prior causes and/or random events? Then how does it work?

Let's say you can pick between 1 and 2, and there's a whole stream of prior causes at many levels that are causing you to pick 1. Where does picking 2 come in, if not from some random interference from quantum physics?

Do I believe free will exists? Do I have a choice?

If you have a counterargument let's hear it. I expected a lot of whining and lashing out when I made this thread because it's uncomfortableThanks for the bumps.

When will you nihilism cunts learn that it doesn't matter because both are indistinguishable from each other. Why even bother with mental masturbation when no one even knows how causality works for real?

>touch grass
touch my cock

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If you cant controll anything dont worry about it. There is no 'you'. You dont decide anything.
And take your meds btw

>Do I believe free will exists?
How should I know lol
>Do I have a choice?
I don't think so either way. It would be determined by prior causes whether you believe in it or not.

Will isn't a physical element so we are getting sidetracked. If our will is a source of energy, I am trying to apply it to meet my needs.

No one brought up nihilism except you.
>both are indistinguishable from each other
So free will, if it exists, is useless?
>Why even bother with mental masturbation when no one even knows how causality works for real?
"S-stop talking about this! Ree!"

>Can you really? I'm not so sure. And is free will really just being able to follow your desires? If so an animal also has free will, meaning it isn't something exceptional really.
Free will is NOT following your (carnal) deaires. That would be more akin to following the devil. That's what separates us from animals

kronix?
is that you?

If will isn't physical how can it affect the physical world? A rock can affect a puddle because both are physical; how could something that isn't physical affect the atoms and molecules of a rock, when those atoms and molecules do what they do because of physics?

It's like ghosts. If ghosts are real and non-physical, how are they going to mess with me? If a ghost can attack me I can fight back.

>So free will, if it exists, is useless?
It doesn't exist, but even if it did then it's useless because we already have a certain type of determinism. Not having free will doesn't mean not having control of your destiny, your actions or your future
>"S-stop talking about this! Ree!"
I am typing this while taking a shit

See, look right there. People define free will in opposing ways.
defines free will as the exact opposite of how you define it.

"Free will is being able to follow your desires"

vs

"Free will is being able to NOT follow your desires"

>Not having free will doesn't mean not having control of your destiny
That's exactly what it means. Either your destiny is determined by prior causes or random events you can't control push it one way or another. Where is the room for you to step in and do something that is neither compelled by prior events NOR determined randomly?

energy isn't considered physical, yet it exists. Will must exist on the same level as energy.

It means the same thing, just worded different. The animal has no choice but to follow his instincts (desires), good or bad. We can choose.

Free will is indeed not real.
What you are is determined mostly by genetics and the environment you were raised in your youth.
Both of them are not under your control.
After your self is established everything that happens won't be by choice.

If you are upset that you don't have free will. That mean you need to kill yourself or kill someone else
Sorry but that's the truth.

>We can choose
Okay, we can choose, but how does that distinguish us from, say, a chimpanzee?

Say you have a man and a chimp, and you give both a choice between an apple and a banana. Is there something fundamentally different going on when the human makes the choice? I don't see what it is. I don't see either's choice as a free will choice; it's a choice based on prior causes and/or randomness.

Animals, especially the most intelligent ones but really a lot more than you'd think, also don't run on just instinct. They are capable of learning; learned behaviors are by definition not instinctive even though instincts can factor in to the learning of those behaviors.

Your brain follows the laws of physics.
If there is a defined state A then the following state B is determined by the pysical laws.
If not then its entierly random.
But 'you' never get to choose

Grow a brain. What would a non deterministic universe look like? It wouldn't even have a shape and if it did then it would be given by probabilistic procedures that work exactly the same way as deterministic chaotic systems.
As soon as we lose determinism we lose any notion of what it is to be "something", there is no room to such room because even if you got there you would cease to be.
Free will takes away freedom of predetermined choice by taking away the predetermined choices.

>Free will takes away freedom of predetermined choice by taking away the predetermined choices.
So you're agreeing with me that there is no free will?

Yes you fucking idiot, did you just start picking a fightat random with me because of that? i said they were both indistinguishable from each other (at least for probabilistic free will)
The only reason one would have the need to talk about free will is because people feel like it makes it so that life lacks meaning, but if no one knows jack shit about the future for sure then it's as good as a random set for all parties involved.