Existent, quality RTS games are better than standard MOBAs. Supreme Commander has similar APM, potentially lots of low-power units that can be strong in large numbers (20+) -- which leads to location-based strategy* -- unit-important options (the commander, higher tech units [including experimentals], and a, or multiple support commander[s]), and similar notions to any moment of gameplay in a MOBA.
*). Lots of low-power units leading to location-based strategy also has multiple options for counters; units have range, movement speed, turret-rotation speed, shot arc, AoE, and stun, so compositions are important (and not yet math'd; how units compare to others and placements for cost is potentially a medium amount of theorycrafting); placements are amongst turrets, missile launchers, missile defense, shields, and artillery, so lower-power units can't access high-tech bases or nearby areas; eventually, strategic missile launchers (nukes) are available, so strategic missile defense is area-based protection. Ultimately, scale of power is way more varied and deep; so many options lead to more reliance on team play, more reliance on information (scouting), and more spontaneous, dynamic storyworth (watch a MOBA cast, vs. a Supreme Commander FAF cast by the YTer Gyle).
Singleplayer is surpassed by multiplayer (because real players are readily-available dynamism, skill, and thus fun).
2D is surpassed by 3D (because more options is more strategy, interactivity, and thus fun).
Lobby design is surpassed by a persistent world (because realism is "all things are possible" what's predicted and rewarded and because status is time-based).
Variety:depth is defined by attainable goals; "amounts of activities that lead to status" is roles and building; thus, economy, material-repairs durability, and full loot PvP are some of the most important designs (character action combat can carry a game for a little while -- singleplayer games are shelved in one month or two; see Elden Ring -- but gathering, crafting, and trading can carry a game for a while; see Skyrim, Rust, Minecraft, and ARK).
mobas want npc behaviour from real players. its a step backwards
Austin Morris
RTS died the same way arena FPS died and how fighting games are dying: people can't cope about being bad 1v1 also when they stopped giving a shit about the singleplayer campaigns this just made the problem much worse, especially because RTS multiplayer is too difficult to get into compared to dotalikes. people can cope about being bad more when they can blame 4 other people
Arena FPS doesn't have the same realism as small-maps shooters, plus available games at specific periods, advertisement, and popularity leading to more. CoD 4 has exploration, strategic movement in small areas (getting control of a building, checking the surrounding area, moving to another area, limiting incoming lines of sight by staying near the edge, and choosing between ranges of weapons, etc.), and thus more reliance on patience, more team play, and more storyworth. CoD: AW has some of the best, most paced and juxtaposed mobility in the industry, but the maps are a little small, and controllers aren't so intuitive as to facilitate large appeal.
PS: Supreme Commander would be easier to learn than the 161 champions of League of Legends.
RTS are team games also.
Justin Evans
MOBAs appeal to the standard RPG player and people too scared to engage with multiple units, especially in a 1v1 setting.
Joseph Gray
you have to learn more at once in the initial process with an RTS to be slightly competent than you do a dota derivative game
Jordan Morales
I don't think it's as complex as this because the SupCom series could appeal to RPG players but didn't become popular enough (in a time when gaming had much fewer players) to scale popularity, standards of RTS and top-down gaming, castability, and what people enjoy competitively. It's much easier to get excited about a quality RTS than a MOBA because every moment is more relevant to power, strategy is more varied and deep, and carrying a game is more volatile; people would like the risk: reward and sandbox intensity of an RTS.
Technically, MOBAs provide similar gameplay to the MMO that approximately everybody was playing, without leveling, and for free, which has been in a fantasy setting.
Carter Powell
People are groomed to prefer RPG-style games from childhood. If they were raised on RTS games, they'd prefer those.
Jacob James
Reminder to sage and ignore Nutriments Nigger and his dumbass threads
This is a tutorial / active-notation problem. I didn't even know you could upgrade metal extractors in Supreme Commander FA, plus all of the other fundamentals such as trade-off time, catchup time, engagement time -- supcom.fandom.com/wiki/Economy#Time -- compositions of units and placements vs. others (T1 mobile artillery have more range than T1 point defense turrets), and what production and economy I should and can have at specific times. It's a product of being more varied and deep, which is attractive enough that if scientific, physiological optimals were advertised (plus how obviously more castable and thus entertaining it is), it would be more popular.
Carson Thompson
Consistently posting this and not *ever* refuting the content makes this a rule violation and reportable.
Angel Walker
I think that "fantasy" vs. (at least often human-controlled) robots is a subtopic, but I don't think it should matter because science is closer to robot effectiveness than it is human miraculousness.
Jaxon Gomez
AoE2 exists. It's not a flavoring issue. It's a game format issue.
Jeremiah Sanchez
AoE II doesn't have anywhere near the popularity of MOBAs, nor the intuitiveness of Supreme Commander (which has attacking while moving, queueing commands such as move, attack, and patrol, zooming out to view large locations and zooming in to view specifics, potentially large group sizes, leading to more choice and strategy, better unit composition fundamentals, and more storyworth via momentary options and fantasy-meets-reality).
>bw has the soul and style i much prefer >its gameplay is jank and you need to learn bugs >starcraft 2 has smoother gameplay but something about it feels soulless and messy
Easton Nguyen
It sounds less like you're talking about RTS games in general and more like you're gushing about SupCom.
