Be honest. Was there any version of these characters that were more fun to play in Ultimate than this game?

I also heavily prefer PM/P+ to Ultimate, but there's some characters where I don't really agree with how the PMDT handled them, namely Lucas, Pit, Ganon, and to a lesser extent I'd argue they could have gone further with some others.
Really I feel like it's held back by Smash's core mechanics, a common criticism of PM I hear is "oops all rushdowns" but unless this game worked more like Rivals of Aether I'm not sure how good they could even make a more defensive character before they become horribly obnoxious.

Lucas I understand since he's just a space animal, but what do you not like about PM Pit and Ganondorf?

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Lucas is a bigger example than the other two.
With Pit I simply think that Smash 4 did a really good job with him, they made him what I consider to-date to be the most well-balanced all-rounder character in the official games and I find him satisfying on a simple level, big lenient hitboxes with lots of multihits and solid movement properties. PM Pit isn't bad, and in fact he's probably my go-to answer for decloning dark pit, I just always felt that PM pit sorta feels like they wanted to make Roy, before they made Roy. It's entirely a preference thing, I like Pit being satisfying in these more simple ways. Do love side special glide though, and official Pit might benefit from some of the point-blank sweetspots PM Pit has in his moveset.
Ganon I never really understood what he does, he was simple and kinda bad when he had warlock punch but the replacement always came off as really incongruous with me. Fully willing to believe I'm just stupid when it comes to dorf.
Another thing I didn't say before, PM doesn't really have much in the way of throw-based characters, I once again blame Smash's core mechanics preventing traditional grappler design from functioning (hell even other platform fighters haven't quite fixed it from my experience). Still, it leads to some characters not quite being perfect versions of themselves, even in cases where I'd consider them the best versions we have.

>Ganon I never really understood what he does, he was simple and kinda bad when he had warlock punch but the replacement always came off as really incongruous with me. Fully willing to believe I'm just stupid when it comes to dorf.
The flaot makes sense since his aerials are 90% of his gameplan, and floating lets him get tricky with wavelanding, which is the other 10% of his gameplan. It takes a lot of adjusting. As a Melee Ganon enjoyer I think the float adds a lot to him. Cape is good for certain matchups presumably but I dont play against too many Links or Samuses or w/e.
>Another thing I didn't say before, PM doesn't really have much in the way of throw-based characters
Bowser, Icies, Snake, and DK are what I'd call grapplers. Or closest enough.
>I once again blame Smash's core mechanics preventing traditional grappler design from functioning (hell even other platform fighters haven't quite fixed it from my experience).
I would suggest Urdah from Rushdown Revolt. Three of her specials are grabs, including a Potempkin style anti-air grab that does 40 damage. That game benefits from importing many traditional fighting game mechanics, so she probably would not work if backported to PM.

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Literally all of them, because tripping.

PM doesn't have tripping zoomie

>I would suggest Urdah from Rushdown Revolt. Three of her specials are grabs, including a Potempkin style anti-air grab that does 40 damage. That game benefits from importing many traditional fighting game mechanics, so she probably would not work if backported to PM.
>that webm
I'm sold

It's a little hard to follow, I should've just linked her intro video youtube.com/watch?v=J3ByVpLLirA

Roy's a bit of a wash for me, but I play him in both games. I'd say he's more nuanced in PM, but he's got things in Ult I like more like the faster movement speed, better OOS, more satisfying hits.

Your criticism is that you cant play like a fucking pussy. Mario is already a grab spammer and 2/3rds of the cast is full of projectile spamming retards. A cast of mainly rushdown, and I played Lucas in ult, is a dream come true

I play like a pussy in every fighting game I touch and I'm going to argue that defensive play between games is not built equally.
In Smash, defensive playstyles are godawful, characters like Rosalina and UltSonic are too god damn safe on everything they do. Smash in general has a lot of core mechanics that disproportionately reward defensive play, making these playstyles cheap in a way that they simply aren't in better games.
When you spam fireballs in street fighter, depending on the exact entry there are plenty of universal mechanics that let you beat that, and the reduced movement and stage size (compared to a platform fighter) further force defensive play to have risks and commitment. Timing someone out in a lot of traditional fighters is hard and anyone that's competent at the game can force a zoner into taking some kind of risk.
There are matchups in smash bros where a player can land a couple of hits or get one KO, and then dodge for the rest of the game, this can happen even at high level and the only reason you don't see every match devolve into this is that players intrinsically want to do more. The trad fightan equivalent of this kind of match is much less in favor of the person fishing for a timeout because characters that AREN'T playing defensively always have tools to at least make the opposing player commit to something or block mixups, hell the better fighting games will even give zoners close-range options just so dittos at least have the possibility of getting interesting.
Movement is too good in these games, dodges are too good, shields block all sides and don't make you take chip damage, the game rarely forces you to commit when in neutral if ever. The only way a Smash game functions outside of items-on FFA clusterfucks where nothing matters is by having every single moveset force engagement by being terrible at the alternative. Forcing commitment in neutral is absolutely paramount to any competitive game, even on a casual level.

I like Ultimate Wolf over PM Wolf. PM just turned him into another Melee spacie.

I used to play PM a lot but I haven't touched it much at all since Slippi is just way more convenient.

>Panders to tourneyfags
>Was more popular than sm4sh in its prime
>Nintendo got butthurt and went scorched earth on any tournaments that hosted it
>Scene faded into irrelevancy

>a game on a console that everyone on planet earth bought was more popular than a game on a console that only 20 people bought

but enough about the 3ds

Gamecube only did marginally better than the Wii U yet melee was by far the most popular smash game up until ultimate

>melee was by far the most popular smash game up until ultimate
Brawl sold more than Melee.
Tourneyfags are just a loud minority.