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MOBA vs. RTS
Carson Hughes
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Brandon Evans
>MOBA Tactics.
Moving the character;
Attacking creeps;
Controlling waves;
Attacking another character;
Choosing items;
Warding;
Jungling;
Attacking the medium creature;
Attacking the big creature.
>RTS Tactics (Supreme Commander FA).
Starter build order (about 3 minutes);
Scouting;
Attacking early engineers;
Commander options (makes rushing possible and preventable; has upgrades);
Tradeoff time to upgrade to tech II and III (both metal extractor upgrade repays are approximately 4 minutes; producing units vs. upgrading a factory and producing units is calculatable);
Map size (travel time of land, sea, and air);
Factory requirements (air factories cost a lot of energy);
Microing;
Relevant technology and counters (radar; making a tactical missile defense when you get to tech II; shielding, especially because of bombers and the win condition usually being commander survival; artillery to counter point defense and shields);
Unit picks (utilizing your chosen faction's specifics such as health, mobility, and firing characteristics);
Air dropping units;
Experimentals.
Mason Garcia
DotA has:
>5 Positions, technically 6 if you count the sacrificial support that has 0 last hits at the end of the game
>Regular 2-1-2 laning
>Trilaning
>Double Mid lane (usually 5 and 2)
>Pos 4 Roaming
>Pos 4 and 5 Double Roaming
>Jungling (usually 4 or 3)
>Counter-jungling (usually 4)
>Very early push using heroes that peak early, similar to RTS rushing with summon heroes like Brood or Chen
>Strats revolving around heroes that have to go to "late-game", similar to turtling, like Spectre or Arc
>Differentiating between quite a lot of damage types (Physical vs Magic vs Pure vs HP Removal) and their different resistances and effects
>Laning Phase, Mid-game, and late-game
>Mega creeps and super creeps
>Stacking creeps (done by 4 and 5)
>Pulling creeps
>Blocking creeps
>Denying creeps
>Last hitting creeps
>Creep scaling
>Warding and dewarding
>Playing around the turn rate
>Playing around the animation and attack cancelling
>Playing around Pseudo-RNG vs RNG
>Playing around fog of war
>Playing around height advantage (miss chance)
>Playing around vision blocking, ex. trees blocking vision
>Playing around invisibility mechanics
>Playing around Day and Night mechanics
>Playing around Attack Priority of non-controllable units like creeps and towers
>Playing around Smoke of Deceit item (heroes under the effect will be impossible to be seen by anything unless an enemy tower or hero is nearby)
>Playing around evasion/miss chance
>Playing around magic immunity
>Playing around magic piercing
>Playing around Roshan and the Aegis.
>Paying attention specific times on the timer (Runes and Roshan spawn)
>Global skills that literally every player on your team can use (Scan and Fortify) and has a global cooldown that has to be timed on the right moment
>Couriers
>Microing, especially with certain heroes like Meepo or PL
>Scouting, especially with mobile heroes or heroes with specific kits like Zeus or Slark
Evan Watson
>shit vs shit
Parker Sanders
supreme commander has rhiza so supreme commander wins
Caleb Nguyen
My post was to show that the player fantasy is a lot different. In a MOBA, you're doing a few things such as last hitting creeps and poking players; some characters are really fun to play (Yone from League -- youtube.com
Isaiah Jones
An RTS player can transition to MOBAs much easier than a MOBA player can transition to an RTS.
Brandon Perry
>RTS
>Mystery
Kill yourself.
Christian Robinson
Maybe, but would they want to? In a MOBA, your opponent can counter your character, leading to 10-20 minutes of mediocre play. In an RTS, all your teammates have to do is stay alive, and you can carry.
Angel Peterson
Fog of war is more potent in an RTS because attacking bases is the easiest way to get ahead in economy, and knowing what type of factories, where, what type of units, how many, and what tech levels they have is important.
Jonathan Brooks
They don't have to, I'm just saying that MOBA was born as a casual answer to RTS games.
youtube.com
No MOBA play will ever come close to the amount of skill required to perform maneuvers like these.
Alexander Bailey
Much of your points aren't "tactics". A lot of what you wrote is just pure mechanical skill you develop by doing something over and over, like learning the piano. In terms of that kind of skill, RTS's are more impressive yes. But in terms of actual tactics and strategy, Dota relies far more on teamwork and drafting which somehow are not even mentioned in your points at all.
Jayden White
Tactics are strategies in action. It's not simply mechanical skill; economy is balanced to make the most of your situation, to pre-counter possibilities if you can't scout, and to counter what your opponent is doing. It's game knowledge, location, and using the tools of the sandbox to vary tactics and to try and exploit weaknesses. Having so many options is player fantasy.
Teamwork is possible in both and isn't a specific tactic, so it's not listed. Drafting in a MOBA is similar to picking a faction in an RTS, especially if a slot on the map is usually an air slot (because the opposite has opponents surrounding it, or it's too far away, making getting land there improbable; some factions have more air options, even experimentals) -- it could be included, but that type-up was originally to compare actual gameplay.
Jaxon Lopez
Define "casual". Modern dota has 120 heros with unqiue stats (strength, agility, intelligence, turn rate, BAT, base damage, etc) with 4-6 abilities each and 208 items, most of which have active abilities. And you can't just get by knowing one hero, you need to be able to draft effectively and have a decent pool. Oh and remember you have to relearn everything for each major patch which happens multiple times a year. This includes complete hero, item and map overhauls. This isn't the type of game some casual can just pick up, it takes 100s of hours until you even know what all the heros do. I feel like if I just mained Zerg in Starcraft I would get a handle of the game faster than if I were to pick up Dota from scratch right now.
Eli Wright
>RTS games died
>MOBAs are still alive
MOBAs are better, its that simple
Austin King
>"A lot of people are fat; I should obviously eat whatever I want."
Dylan Long
Lmao look at him seethe
Sebastian Perry
I don't really see how it's more important. The easiest way to get ahead in economy in DOTA is to kill the enemy carry, which also involves properly managing the fog of war with lane management, smokes and wards. Scouting the enemy team's items, levels, talents, neutrals are all important as well.
Nathan Perez
Because in a MOBA, all you have to do is walk up to them...
Alexander Long
Maybe it's because i grew up with RTS but I just couldn't get into MOBAs, especially when they first started getting really big. I can see why people like it, but I don't know. The idea of base building, different units you need to control and how different maps mean different strategy is just so much more appealing to me.
James Fisher
Well good luck with that strategy
Adam Cooper
The only reasonable SupCom strategy is to go Cybran, load your commander with the teleport and mazer upgrades and then teleport into the enemy base and burn it to the ground. All other strategies are dumb and gay!
Nolan Hernandez
Jungle isn't usually in sight, so attacking a forward carry should be pretty easy; they would at least have to return to base for healing.
In an RTS, you have your commander, units, point defense (placeable turrets), walls, and shields.
Hunter Carter
Moba is just RTS for those that can't handle managing armies.
Adam Powell
I don't know what a "forward carry" is but in dota at least it's not easy. You have to cross river to get to the enemy jungle which is a lowground, meaning the enemy can more easily ward it and you have no vision up high ground. Carries in Dota also typically have great escape options, and at pro level a support will probably be nearby with save items. You need multiple people on the same page to execute the play or they'll just escape easily.