A lot of people have been fond of fun leveling fantasy; but there is no reason for "questing leveling" to exist. You could have the same experience with equipment. It's easy replacing numbers with varying playstyles. Items should provide size, mobility, and abilities rivaling comics. You should use equipment because losing items provides a way for every other activity to exist. Removing items from the economy stimulates crafting and PvE; PvP outside of cities, near events, and while controlling resources provides replayability amongst intensity and strategy. Volatile status allows everybody's start to be fair and speedy, every area to be relevant, and development to center on interesting playstyles and dynamic gameplay. Replacing leveling with losable items is the way to fulfill the #1 correlative of sustained players: content.
MMOs
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the only thing that made leveling fun to me is world pvp, other than that grinding mobs or even questing is so fucking boring
you have to prove you're docile and retarded enough to experience the end game, how else could that be achieved?
the end game is just about grinding so you can pvp and not get owned, which is lame. rather doing world pvp while you're leveling against other people that are also leveling at the same power level as you means you get the most fun and dynamic fights
go play Albion and stay there
item-based player level is fucking cancer
fuck off pvp nigger, the reason your super hardcore full loot drop mmos keep dying is because it fucking sucks ass.
First of all, Star Wars Galaxies did this and it fucking sucked. It wasn't the first, either.
Over time, devs learned that losing gear and levels is bullshit padding designed to keep you playing since they're charging a subscription. WoW comes along and practically invents the gear treadmill, giving every ounce of effort you put in a tangible reward in the form of levels, gold, and items, with no way to actually lose them.
However, they still have to make subscription money, so they offload the time sink onto the level grind. I think, narratively, having a character do mundane shit and work their way up as adventurerers is a great way to immerse players in their role in the world.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that MMOs will probably always be tethered to time sink mechanics, and if you punish people too harshly for things that may not be entirely their fault, you will lose players and thus lose money.
>WoW comes along and practically invents the gear treadmill
dude what are you 15 or something?
Runescape's system is by far the best.
Also in Vanilla WoW the levelling was the content and each class had something powerful and unique about them to encourage you to want to level most of them.
Boy am i glad you arent making an MMO.
>but there is no reason for "questing leveling" to exist
which is why the 3 best MMOs that were ever made never had quest-leveling
RO you went out and killed shit with complete freedom to do it anywhere you wanted
FFXI you had to team up with randoms in 6-man exp parties to grind mobs, which made you really good at the game and respect teamwork
Eve there's no levelling. you just make money and go kill cunts.
>what if we turned an rpg into a battle royale ?
youtube.com
Players should be able to choose from a varety of roles, and the world should be fair but challenging.
So start players out with accessibility to everyting and allow them to skillfuly eco into advanced playstyles.
Albion gates everything; it would take dozens if not hundreds of hours to reach high level gameplay loops.
You're not arguing against equipment based status, BTW. Rust, Minecraft, and ARK are some of the most played games.
>your super hardcore full loot drop mmos
Approximately none exist.
The reason leveling sucks on retail is that the overworld is dead and there's no challenge at all
You can have all the epic cinematics you want, but if all leveling is is basically an unskippable 8 hour cutscene before you get to the real game it's pure shit
Leveling is only fun on up to wotlk servers with a healthy low level pop
I haven't played retail at it's current state but I'm playing TBC classic right now and having a blast just leveling low level characters and messing around. Always find low level players to party with too.
leveling used to be fun in ffxiv during the shadow bringers patches. imo once they brought flying to realm reborn, the soul began to drain from the new play experience, leaving the empty vessel that it is now.
>You're not arguing against equipment based status
Actually I am, since the spirit of vidya RPG is character progression. Not only the fact that you progress, but the fact that your character is different than the others. OP is comparing two different genres that have no reason to mix if its removing anything from either playstyle.
>Star Wars Galaxies did this and it fucking sucked.
SWG is from 2003; people have been leveling for 17 years and have many F2P alternatives, some with similar PvP. So, leveling is archaic; now what? Survival Crafting games showed that people want realistic, immersive ways to survive in a persistent world. ARK lets you clear whole areas of resources; efficiency has a lot of upgrades; and starter quality equipment can be made in large amounts very easily, with ascendant quality requiring lots of resources and providing a lot of damage and armor. Giving players a lot to do is easy, but characters have to be able to lose status because everything else is correlative, and adrenergic gameplay is the most fun.
Most players haven't played an MMO that came before WoW.
>kicking a ball with your feet has no purpose, it's clear that people prefer grabbing it with their hands, so they should introduce throwing mechanics as well, but still call it football
this is why rugby sucks
Runescape would have more players PvPing if it allowed you to do everything at the beginning. I'm not sure a lot of players PvP at all, in a very competitive-gameplay market.
Not an argument.
in other words, people who don't like the game as it is would play it because it would be a completely different game and people who do like it wouldn't really play it because it wouldn't be the game they like
Considering PvP as a fundamental part of RPGs is retarded
Go play competitive vidya, there's plenty of it already
I mentioned questing because I wanted it to specify dozens or hundreds of hours that most are requiring; EVE gates everything behind 6.5 years of timed leveling or $6.5k; it would be a fun MMO if anybody could experience the full sandbox.
If you think an MMO with losable gear in 2022 has any chance of being successful you are nuts, the people who want that kind of thing would rather are playing something like Rust instead.
Look it's the no leveling mmo guy again....
That's not really the equivalent. DayZ was really popular and showed that people are OK with grinding for half an hour to get equipment. Pacing can be much faster.
Let's say hypothetically Pantheon wasn't a flop and it actually releases. Do you guys think you would enjoy it? I know it looks janky and dated but I really like the setting and some of the ideas. I feel like it's the type of MMO that would actually immerse me. I really just want more MMOs, I love this genre.