ITT: We will theory craft and plan a challenge run of fire emblem fates conquest Lunatic difficulty without using the "My castle" feature at all. That means no forges, no DVP, no staff shop, certain characters only obtainable with castle upgrades are unobtainable, captures are not possible, grinding support in castle battles is impossible, no visit bonuses, and finally no access to food buffs.
As a result of this, there are several problems we have to solve, mostly resource problems, and the question of the final boss. Without access to early heart seals, and with limited access to master seals, our options for skill inheritance are mostly relegated to partner and friendship seals. This limits the potential for a takumi killer, especially since we lack access to brave weapons from the arms shop. Realistically our only option for a takumi killer are ophelia and forest with the lightning tome from ophelia paralogue. Ill talk more about takumi endgame in the thread.
The objective for this thread will be to discuss the best distribution of resources and the best paralogue chain for early game class changing
Fire emblem fates Theorycrafting thread #1
Killing Takumi in one round of combat is not that hard if you're willing to reset to get Dragon Fang procs, Gunter's pair-up bonuses his personal skill and the shadow Yato mean Corrrin doesn't need to reach very high stat benchmarks.
STUPID DRAGON!
First thing is first, no staff shop means no master seals, heart seals, partner seals, or friendship seals. As a result we only get
>2 heart seals
>4 master seals
>1 hp tonic
so our goal in team composition is to use units that can be replaced by their own children since promotion is going to be easier for offspring with offspring seals. Next we should consider that corrin is simply an unviable unit since the amount of resources in forged bronzes and seals to max our skills is simply too costly, only one master seal should be considered. Finally with no staves, elise will be unable to gain experience after her healing staff, sakura bloom festal, and felicia/jakobs healing staff breaks. As such, we have to use the first heart seal on elise, but she will have no way to gain axe experience without the arm scroll from anna paralogue because we have no access to bronze axes
>First heart seal- Elise
The reason we have to use elise is because with no tonics we have no methods of damage stacking or damage reduction. additionally demoiselle and lillies poise will reduce our need for healing items as we cant buy vulns or concoctions from the staff store. finally since she can naturally go wyvern, she can safely store people on mountains during kitsune hell and she can fly over endless staircase and wind tribe which gives her three maps in a row of utility that no other early heart seal candidates besides selena can contest.
>second heart seal and second master seal
My first idea for the second heart seal was silas. with easy access to sol ninja (friendship seal kaze) and the ability to still use swords he can become a reliable tank that doesnt need healing. However, im unaware of any way to get an E rank shuriken or dagger to train his weapon rank. as such, until i can find a way to get him another arm scroll by the time hes level 5 promoted, this idea is dead in the water. He does however, have a busted child unit so using silas is still on the table.
The only way to get additional heart, partner, and friendship seals is through the paralogues i mentioned earlier, but the issue is that we would have to do paralogues of units i genuinely dont want to use or ones that can contest the master seal since they dont get offspring seals until after chapter 20 iirc. Units like ophelia are basically off the table since their ability to carry late game is so valuable that i have to keep them from being recruited early. Something worth noting is that 2 child units come with healing staves and neither are particularly useful in the context of this run. While forest can become a combat unit and benefit from leos inheritance, I dont have access to very good tomes, so using more than 3-4 tome users is basically impossible until i get ophelia. I have access to fire, fimbulvetr, thunder, brynhildr, thunder, and some tomes from ophelia paralogue. There are no other tome children so thats basically my whole selection. Nosferatu tanking is out of the picture with no weapons shop. As such I would be fine doing dwyer and forest early for their staves and to help create more support points for future chains. Im not losing out on much by not promoting them
>Wyvern Elise
Do you realise how much of a horrible idea this is? Firstly, there is no access to E rank axes ever, no bolt axe and Wyvern Elise is bad anyway. The first heart seal would go to Corrin to become a cavalier. Noble is a bad class, there are E rank lances available from Silas and Azura and cavalier gets good skills. Resourses should go to the best units because making them better is more impactful than making a bad unit slightly better. Think dragonshield Camilla. Speaking of Camilla, Keaton would be her best partner since purple haired Velouria is a beast.
Finally its time to talk about takumi
I need a lightning tome user who can reach 74 effective magical damage to one round takumi, as well as 35 speed and 46 effective hp.
>ophelia capped 41 magic + 2 from tome rank
>life and death from odin or master of arms +10
>malefic aura +2
>lightning +1
>potentially tomefaire from corrin marry +5
>potential trample from elise +4
i would need 10 more damage from her pair up and if the pair up is corrin then i cant use rally magic
This can be solved later but for now im dead set on getting her to be my takumi killer. There is no other brave weapon and vantage strats wont work because takumi doesnt move first. As far as i know theres no magic tonics unless i use the witch mark to create one and while im open to using dlc, im not sure who would become a witch yet since once again tomes are unappealing outside of leo and elise.
Wyvern elise is fine, i can get d rank axes with anna paralogue. Her flying utilities outweigh the contributions of any one else with a heart seal and ive already outlined why i think her ability to reduce damage is more useful than anything corrin can do. Secondly corrin reclassing for his own purpose means he cant pass his class off with friendship and partner seals. getting elbow room and shelter is absolutely not worth it, especially considering that the lack of healing puts corrins bulk at a premium in my army. magic corrin with felicia pair up has one shot potential until ninja rape cave and he reduces damage more effectively than anyone else in my army with dragon stone. Outside of that utility, corrin is just a poor choice for resource investment. Finally since im planning on using silas to get Sol access, i need corrin to be able to survive and contribute at half health and dragon stone is the only way for him to survive at half health besides backpacking. Im planning on using all the royals since prepromotes so im using camilla ofc.
>keaton
hes actually someone i was considering master sealing just because we wont have beast effective weapons for B&W, kitsunes, or hinoka map without him.
The Garon chapter really isn't that long so resetting to get luna/dragon fang/astra procs is not a terrible idea. Forcing this Ophelia bulid is a terrible waste of resources since it mean both promoting Odin and using a heart seal on him as well as doing the same for Elise. Both of them are unsalvageable without the shop.
I want to briefly go over units i consider useless, or at least only useful for partnership sealing.
>niles
My bow selection is absolutely pitiful in this run and shuriken breaker isnt necessary for me. I dont plan on playing ryoma straight because silence and gold are both useless to me. capturing is literally useless. Outside of chapter 10, i dont really see him contributing to the game and kaze has lock touch anyways.
>Effie
While her bulk is impressive and she gives decent speed and massive attack to her child, I dont see what shes doing that xander cant do. I don't think that she can perform her 1 shot role better than silas and master sealing her gives me a poor 1 range tank. I dont have access to javelin or spear so her best role is ch10 bottom left and backpacking.
>mozu
come on now
>Selena
I dont have any way to make her into a bow knight or hero with anything but swords. as a flier she would only be able to use lances and her damage output is so terrible in peg knight.
>odin
Besides ophelia, he really brings nothing to the table. Malefic is alright but his pair up bonuses will really only help leo or elise. I cant early heart seal him so vantage is locked until i do paralogues. He gets no nosferatu and training him on ch8 is impossible without wasting tons of heal staff uses. I don't see any way he contributes outside of trying to hit LAD to pass to ophelia.
>arthur
simply put he has to compete for hand axe and dual club with camilla. his pair up bonuses and supports are good for back packing but his combat stats are not much more impressive than beruka for example and with me using camilla and elise he wont have access to the better axes that i want to use.
Theres more i could list but this thread is basically dead in the water with 3 posters
Using a heart seal on Xander lets him solo the kitsune map with the beast killer a bronze lance could also work because turns aren't an issue. I imagine Percy could do the same with an Effie mother.
Corrin is also the best recipient of experience by far becuase of good growths, accellerated experience gain and the free EXP in chapter 15 no one else comes close. Wyvern Elise is bad generally but even more so in this challenge because of no bolt axe and highly contested invetment items. If you're having trouble keeping people alive in the kitsune map then don't deploy them, same for the stairway. Corrin can also become a wyvern and pass down that class and itmay be optimal because it's the best class in the game.I didn't mention it before because I don't know where the bronze axe is. Isn't Anna DLC which I thought was banned?
>this thread is basically dead in the water with 3 posters
This board has been especially bad recently with almost nothing of value being posted. Your thread has maybe been the best one all day.
I cant get a beast killer for xander. Percy is a pretty good option but his paralogue is a bit useless since its mainly a gold farm and i have no shops. Im debating just using it to chain supports for paralogue cheesing.
>no bolt axe
thats fine. I dont really plan on making her a main combat unit and more of a dual striker, chipper, aura unit anyways. You have a point about corrin wyvern since i can get bronze lance from silas, I still want to use wyvern elise though.
>dlc is ban
dlc happens in dragons gate, specifically anna on the run. Its not part of my castle and the only dlc i have on my ds right now are before awakening, anna on the run, and annas gift 1&2. I dont have the grinding dlcs.
Thinking about it, pebble is an E rank dagger that would allow me to grind out more than 1 sol ninja. The only other candidates in my mind for arm scroll was silas/laslow anyways.
Im now considering maybe a defense corrin in wyvern knight over a magic 1 shot build corrin. Its really going to come down to if the early game is hard enough with no tonic that i need 1 shot corrin or not. Anyways why do you think wyvern elise is bad?
Well im sorry to tell you but it will die soon lol. Ive been having consistent internet outages around 1:30 and its 1:01 right now. we have maybe 20 minutes tops to keep talking about fates.
Well wyvern Elise requires a lot of investment for a relatively underwhelming pay-off: her defence and HP are bad so there's not much enemy phase action with her.
The hardest chapter would be Black and White because of no hammer. You'd have to get armourslayer Xander and Leo/Ophelia to take out all the generals.
For Kill boss maps it might be a good idea to use cheese strategies like. having Camilla and Leo fly in to kill Kumagera in chaper 14. Other cheese strategies would involve spamming end turn next to Azura to heal with her personal, it's rare to be time pressured in conquest so this should work for a lot of maps
What'd be your go to unit for ninjas apart from Camilla ? do you even get more than one hand axe ?
Looking over the weapons again, i have 3 bronze lance/naginata, 1 bronze sword, pebble, and fire tome. I actually have much more flexibility with E rank weapons than i thought. Initially i thought only sword and lance rank could be trained. Im 99% sure i cant take the shuriken or bronze club from the tutorial maps into conquest all i can get is a vuln, goddess icon, hp tonic, or swap one of those for a festal.
While i agree she wont become a very good combat unit, i hard disagree that she isnt survivable. I really want to use her auras since im probably going to be stuck turtling and dual striking for the entire early game. Its hard for me to one shot anything without early steels or tonics. She has very decent defense in wyvern rider. With no other way to train her since its basically impossible for her to reach a decent level with the limited staves, i have to make her a wyvern. I could dip into witch for tonics but it may be worthwhile to save witch for someone else with more combat potential.
>leo vs generals
with no lightning, moonlight, calamity gate, etc its going to be hard for him to beat the generals. honestly much of the theory of these runs is hard for me to do because im so used to having tonics, forges, unique weapons etc.
When i said cheese strats i meant reaching S rank supports earlier than usually by chaining paralogues together.
Ninja rape cave is going to be a low man strategy for sure. Theres no way i can reliably kill master ninjas without tomahawk or stat stacking, not to mention how unreliable the hit rates are. I dont think camilla can do this map like usual. Im likely just going to run to the top of the map with xander and azura and slowly heal and chip the enemies to death in the room where you can close off both entrances. I also need the master seal from there for kids potentially. iirc you get 1 hand axe from arthur and thats it. there might be a ranged axe in a paralogue im not thinking of.
May as well just keep her a troubadour if she's never doing any fighting, level doesn't matter for auras and it's easy to keep people safe when turtling.
I think you get calamity gate from the Ophelia paralogue so if you do that just before 18 then you'll get it in time for the generals and Ophelia will still get the child seal.
The sort of cheese strats I'm talking about are things like killing Kotaro on turn 2 with a killer axe crit or not fighting anyone on the boat map because you can fly outside the boat then swoop back in to talk to the guards. If the fox map is too dificult normally then wyvern Xander with a bronze lance and suppored Corrin pair-up should still be able to solo because he takes next to no damage from any of the enemies.
Did you forget Nyx ? I doubt she'd be useful past chapter 10 unless for magic pair-up but she brings a fire with her
clearly you just hate elise. Anyways isp just told me the internet outage is expected in 5ish minutes so this is probably my last post. Fox map probably wont wall me desu, i can just mountain cheese them.
Thanks for talking with me, see you in the next 500+ post corrins butt thread
running out of chars and honestly thought the thread was going to die.