Do you think DOTA 2, League, and CS: GO each deserve some 10-15M hours per day?
>A quality RTS is more fun than the standard MOBA. >MOBA Tactics. Moving the character Attacking creeps Controlling waves Attacking another character Choosing items Warding` Jungling Attacking the medium creature Attacking the big creature >RTS Tactics (Supreme Commander FA). Starter build order (about 4 minutes) Scouting Attacking early engineers Commander options (makes rushing possible and preventable; has upgrades) Tradeoff time to upgrade to tech II and III (both metal extractor upgrade repays are approximately 4 minutes; producing units vs. upgrading a factory and producing units is calculatable) Map size (travel time of land, sea, and air) Factory requirements (air factories cost a lot of energy) Relevant technology and counters (radar; making a tactical missile defense when you get to tech II; shielding, especially because of bombers and the win condition usually being commander surival; artillery to counter point defense and shields) Unit picks (utilizing your chosen faction's specifics such as health, mobility, and firing characteristics) Air dropping units Experimentals
>What players want in a shooter is controls, intuitiveness, variety:depth, and immersiveness. >The genre should have mobility (during ADS; dodges), centered hipfire (because aiming a reticule is more requisite), and deterministic, bouncy recoil.
Ok thanks for your shitty biased list but could you tell me how more complexity inherently leads to more fun? Because I've played RTS since the mid 90s and DOTA has been more fun than I've had with any single RTS I can remember. >SupCom Absolutely soulless, units look like shit and have no personality, there's a reason Blizzard RTS were so successful even outside of their esports scene.
Ayden Jenkins
SupCom and the sequel designed and innovated enough to have and keep my attention over others; I could criticize AoE II's lack of moving while attacking, small group sizes, limited and random resources, inability to zoom out and back in to view large areas of the map or to relocate the camera (thus relying on clicking the minimap), and inability to queue actions -- why would I want to play such mechanical gameplay? Even within the genre, there are different styles of play; but producing and controlling large armies is more strategy because it compares players' effectiveness, and it's more intense and fun fantasy.
>could you tell me how more complexity inherently leads to more fun? You have to know what you're doing: how to pre-counter (anti-missile defense; shields) and manage your time according to how efficient upgrades are to repays, but the variety and depth of an RTS is a lot more roleplaying.
It's the iteration with unit abilities and smaller maps.
Luis Walker
>limited and random resources This doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. It just adds another layer of competition and adds depth to early game choices.
Jonathan Nelson
It's especially awful because of the camera control, but searching for resources isn't compelling. In SupCom, there's already enough to do.
Nathaniel Richardson
>why do you play genres that you enjoy when you can play genre that you dont enjoy? I dont know, user.
>"Why don't I enjoy something that's objectively more fun than what I'm doing?"
Adrian Phillips
Yes, clearly they do. What is the conclusion of Dota 2 having 100x more players than Forged Alliance at its peak supposed to be other than that 100x more people find it fun?
>A quality RTS is more fun than the standard MOBA.
But they’re not. Also, you don’t know what the word “tactic” means you ESL monkey, you’re using it in place of “mechanic”. Teamfighting and macro play in Dota are vastly tactically deeper than Forged Alliance ant wars or Brood War’s a-moving blobs with extra steps. Interesting tactics are what engage players, not autistic sources of difficulty (1-frame links, pixel-perfect aiming, being forced to multitask every single little thing in Starcaft, etc.)
Dylan Jenkins
>What is the conclusion of Dota 2 having 100x more players than Forged Alliance at its peak supposed to be other than that 100x more people find it fun? A lot of people haven't tried or been skillful at SupCom. They don't realize the strategy and fantasy involved.
>But they’re not. Not an argument.
>Also, you don’t know what the word “tactic” means you ESL monkey, you’re using it in place of “mechanic”. Tactic is strategy in action.
>Teamfighting and macro play in Dota are vastly tactically deeper than Forged Alliance ant wars Forged Alliance doesn't have unit abilities except for ACU overcharge; SupCom 2 does. Moving either a MOBA character or an RTS group benefits from the same back-and-forth dodging (but MOBA auto-attacks home; there's more strategy in RTS units always having aim. Queueing actions in an RTS allows you to dodge in more places).
>Interesting tactics are what engage players I listed MOBA vs. RTS tactics.
Another FACT about MOBAs that RTS spergs are unwilling to admit is that they’re actually more cerebral than even Brood War by a wide margin — BW is really not that interesting of a game to analyze at the pro level outside of micro, the decision making and macro play is shallow. So the rise of MOBAS tells you that the average gamer wants a game that asks them to work smarter, not harder.
Ryan Bell
Characters are standing around occasionally last-hitting for large portions of gameplay.
There's not a lot for an audience to be intrested in; casts are overexaggerated.
Brody Anderson
>A lot of people haven't tried or been skillful at SupCom
Could this perhaps be because ant-wars is an unpopular genre? Hmmm. Why is that?
>fantasy(??) ESL-bros.... we lost
>Tactic is strategy in action.
Yes, this is the word you misused
>I listed MOBA vs. RTS tactics.
No you did not, retard.
Dylan Lee
You don’t stand still for a second during laning phase, shithead. Meanwhile in Starcraft armies actually are idle for minutes at a time, unless machine-learning bots are playing (the only worthwhile starcraft players to watch).
>There's not a lot for an audience to be intrested in
Then why have MOBAs totally outstripped the audience for even BW at its peak? You are delusional.
Ethan Bennett
>"Maybe if I vaguely misinterpret the genre, opposing arguments, and the dictionary..."
>You don’t stand still for a second during laning phase, shithead. Meanwhile in Starcraft armies actually are idle for minutes at a time, unless machine-learning bots are playing (the only worthwhile starcraft players to watch). Some characters are going to stand around for a while; and some groups are going to be stationary until enough to attack.
>Then why have MOBAs totally outstripped the audience for even BW at its peak? Because there's little to nothing else to do.
Landon Hernandez
All I can say is, if you genuinely love top-down strategy games so much, why are wasting your time mangling the english language on Any Forums all day, go play Factorio, it’s an RTS with ACTUAL FACTORIES and not dumb inert boxes that churn out units with no visible lines of supply. The best RTS ever — and actually popular to boot!
