If your roguelike has upgrades you have to grind for, it's shit

If your roguelike has upgrades you have to grind for, it's shit.

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I like roguelike games with upgrades

I like progression and unlocks in roguelikes so fuck you.

That's why I said grind for

In other (good) games like Binding of Isaac or Risk of Rain 2 you get sidegrades for doing challenges, you don't have to grind to make the game easier. Any roguelike/lite that has that shit is garbage. Pic related is another piece of trash that has permanent upgrades that make the game easier.

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>mfw still no release date from special reserve games

anyone else not getting a e-mail yet?

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Loop hero is shit regardless. I tried it again recently to see if the updates made it better but no, it's still terrible. No idea why anyone even found it worth playing in the first place.

>roguelike

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Aw man it sucks....too bad it's not a roguelike

you ever notice devolver-published games are nearly immune from criticism on the internet? something is up with those guys, feels like every time a new game comes out by them, there's an army of shills hyping it up. i get that they published hotline miami but that was 10 fucking years ago.

it's literally the genre it's in according to the steam tags.

It's a rogue "lite" at best.
Simply having upgrades between levels make it that it cannot be like Rogue in the first place.

It's fun to unlock stuff through the game though, also allows you to have different strategy (at least a little)

>a game is shit because I say it's shit and everybody else have terrible taste.
Well I was going to make that point as well user, but even on the steam page it's listed as roguelike.... I wouldn't give it that tag either, but that's what it was filed as.
Captcha : YGSAD

Proper unlocks are just customization and variety, not incremental and necessary strength increases.
Risk of Rain good
Rogue Legacy bad

I think you'd be surprised how many Devolver published games literally nobody knows or cares about.
And even ignoring the stuff that nobody cares about to begin with, like Demon Throttle or Olija (or many more) there's plenty that people dunk on all the time, like Weird West or Serious Sam 4. Or the Shadow Warrior reboots. Lot of others.

They've only lucked out in finding a sincere audience a handful of times. If you want to shit on Ape Out, Pikuniku, Carrion, whatever, nobody's stopping you.

>If your roguelike has upgrades after losing it is a roguelite
FTFY

Probably because you're brain damaged. A roguelike can stand on its own two feet with satisfying and deep gameplay where your first run is theoretically identical to your 50th run in terms of difficulty. If you need upgrades like increased life or power or bullshit that makes the run objectively easier, that means the game isn't designed correctly since the runs are about powering up to make subsequent runs easier, and not about beating the game by learning its mechanics.

I actually enjoy starting over from almost scratch in procgen games with permanent upgrades that allow you to get further each run.

>according to the steam tags
According to steam tags nearly every game ever is an action roguelike metroidvania soulslike rpg horror comedy, even if it has nothing to do with any of those genres.

>AKTHUALLY ITS NOT A ROUEGLIK...
Nigga who fucking cares
You start a run
You upgrade shit when its over
Repeat
All these games have same shit

That's technically true but upgrades aren't a defining feature of a roguelite, a roguelite is just a game that meets some criteria of roguelikes but not others. However upgrades/meta progression is a sign of a shit roguelite because at that point you don't need good design, you just need to make the upgrades arbitrarily grindy so that your game lasts X number of hours before you grind enough to get all the upgrades and breeze through subsequent runs. If a roguelite has an expiration based on the number of runs you've done, guess what? It's garbage

With Loop Hero it's not as simple as just buying items to make your run easier, so it's not total irredeemable shit, but you still have those kinds of mechanics even if they're obfuscated by resource management.

It's important to make a distinction because then you can call Pac-man a roguelite if you really want. I mean you start a run, then you die and start over right? If you can't handle these kinds of conversations I would just stay out of the thread.

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I bought Rogue Legacy 2 recently and while I wouldn't consider it a roguelike, it has been very fun
Only on NG+2 yet though, not sure if it'll become grindier later on

Though that is usually not a good addition to the game, you can make it work. Isaac does it very well by making each unlock an extremely minor upgrade. Risk of rain 2 only really has the items to unlock and they usually have an interesting little achievement you have to do for them. Gunfire Reborn has permanent upgrades you unlock while playing, but it's paced well, so as you improve in skill, you also get new abilities to use in runs. Moonlighter's concept is basically metaprogression and it's the only good part of the game.
That being said, Loop Hero doesn't do it well, nor does it do anything well. The only enjoyment I had with the game were the first few runs where you had to think about how you placed your tiles. After that, it got really repetitive and grindy.

>nor does it do anything well
Arts nice.
Only reason people really pay attention to the game.

I don't mind progression if it's like Isaac where you unlock new items (which also kinda counterbalances them by unlocking harder floors as well). Permanent stat upgrades can fuck right off though.