It's ludicrous how few games have 3x3 combos. Souls, a large percentage of RPGs, etc., are 2x3, which is 8 options vs. 27.
It's ludicrous how few games have 3x3 combos. Souls, a large percentage of RPGs, etc., are 2x3, which is 8 options vs...
Alexander Clark
Austin Murphy
Austin Ortiz
wat
Are you complaining about the theoretical base string input limit in games that only have two attack buttons?
Henry Miller
Yeah; potential for depth and creativity.
David Baker
My counter to that is most action games just aren't very good. Souls and souls likes are very simple in those terms and the amount of potential inputs is normally less than the max 8 for a simple x/y string but they're popular so every game and their dog are copying it.
It still blows my mind that ninja gaiden got the basics down so well decades ago and nothing tries to copy that.
It only has two attack buttons (X/Y) but by ng3 the combo list for basic strings is immense by applying decent dial-a-combo, directions, timings and holding and that's before mixing in other attacks such as ranged, counters and tech. There aren't actually that many discrete attacks but it feels like so many more.
The point is not the amount of buttons in use but game design is the entirety of the problem.
Joseph Sullivan
The point is amount of ~buttons, even if directional-modified because that's a distinct unit.
Ian Perry
The fuck is 3x3 combos?
Luis Morris
So what's the point of specifying 2x3 and 3x3?
Even if there are a million potential inputs from the control system if the game designer doesn't put them in the game it's a moot point.
David Mitchell
>
Lincoln Brooks
>So what's the point of specifying 2x3 and 3x3?
>Even if there are a million potential inputs from the control system if the game designer doesn't put them in the game it's a moot point.
Directional modifications are figuratively put in the game. The specification is because most character action is only 2 buttons.
Furthermore, it's listed as 3x3 because that's the most simple implementation.
David Watson
I feel like you're contradicting yourself. The base attack inputs of the game are only two buttons but you are or aren't counting any directiong or timing modifiers and context inputs and you are or aren't counting tertiary actions such as ranged attacks or movement.
This ignores that having only two buttons doesn't limit you to 8 permutations if the string limit is longer than 3.
Eli Foster
Oh, mixing light and heavy attacks, why didn't you just fucking say that?
Jaxon Miller
I don't think that the various alternative attacks such as jumping and two-handing in Souls are enough for "creative gameplay".
>only two buttons doesn't limit you to 8 permutations if the string limit is longer than 3
The difference between X,X,X and X,X... is minimal.
Because light heavy isn't what 3x3 is called.
Jacob Wood
No one calls it 3x3 either
Gavin Davis
Then I'll go back to my original point and say souls and all games that copy that style are just terrible action games that are riddled with all sorts of input quirks and terrible stacking that they should be actively avoided.
Adding a third base input is probably needless complexity as 3d action games have settled on light+heavy attack and build the rest of the inputs around that.
You have to remember these are 3d games and theres more going on than flat fighting games where they're more likely to go for extra inputs.
Kevin Lee
So?
>Adding a third input is probably needless complexity as 3d action games have settled on light+heavy attack and build the rest of the inputs around that.
Then how do you explain the simplicity of implementation and the difference in permutations.
>You have to remember these are 3d games and theres more going on than flat fighting games where they're more likely to go for extra inputs.
Camera corrections are trivial.
Wyatt Stewart
true
Asher Ward
Oh shit it's nutriments guy
Juan Cooper
Lol so true
Jack Young
I don't get it
Jack Foster
>simplicity of implementation and the difference in permutations.
Because you're never just limited to two inputs even around a base of two.
>attack (2)
>hold attack (2)
>charge (2)
>direction + attack, double tap, 360 (6)
>jump attack, rasing, peak, falling, on land (8)
>block + attack (2)
>dodge + attack (2)
>on hit attack (2)
>stand up attack (2)
>off wall attack (2)
There is a short list that give you 30 options for just the opener, more than you 27 3x3 string along and as they're openers then you add more attacks after that and you have dozens of attack strings. At that point you are already into unreasonable complexity then you add in whatever combos, be it cancels, weaving ranged, juggles or whatever.
A shit action game will not do much of that.
A good action game will put a decent amount of the list in.
You're looking for a better game, not a third colour button in the combo list.
Levi Hill
Why do you post this so often on an anonymous image board?
Specifically?
Attack and hold attack are timing based, and it's similar to light heavy, which I'm saying is bland and repetitive. I don't think double tap is different enough from X,X; it doesn't seem the difference is actually there in Souls.
It's not obvious what the (8) line is about.
Block + attack and dodge + attack aren't very skillful or creative.
Etc.
You're splitting hairs. (Attack [2], hold attack [2], charge [2] is an example. The truth is that button spam [R1x2 and similar] is most of Souls.)
Ian Long
> Specifically?
English isn't my native langage so I have trouble understanding everything that's not plain english/technical stuff but by 3x3 combos, do you mean game inputs that has 3 different attacks and how switching their input order creates attack variations?
I'm interested because I'm trying to make an action game with a deep melee system and I'm currently planning the fighting system.
Joseph Jones
So did Sheego want to rub pussies with Kim Possible or something?
Luis Young
The (8) is two attack options for each of the four distinct points of a jump. It's just a tally.
The point being that two imputs with modifiers is no different to three inputs and won't matter until you're well into enough permutations that you won't rember any of them.
There's no difference in skill or creativity between
>X,X,>Y,X,Y
>X,X,Z,X,Y
>The truth is that button spam [R1x2 and similar] is most of Souls.)
Again, souls are fucking terrible action games.