The last time a single character was a 2P character in a mainline Kirby game, it was Gooey in Dream Land 3. He had a ton of personality in his animations, he had his own mechanic for inhaling enemies, he could use every ability, and every animal friend.
The previous times Bandana Waddle Dee was playable he was one character among many, with an option to play as recolored Kirbys or a helper for any ability as well.
But in Forgotten Land, Bandana Waddle Dee is the sole 2P character. And compared to Gooey, Bandana Waddle Dee in is a huge downgrade. He doesn't have his own animations (he recycles all of Kirby's, right down to the taunts and idle animations), he can't inhale, he only has one ability for the entire game, and he can't use any mouthful mode objects. Why did they go with such a limited and frankly lazy approach instead of implementing a character like Gooey, who can access the game's core content along with Kirby? Because they know they can get away with it.
The worst part is, zoomies on the internet are praising it. They can deliver the most subpar, limited, and sloppy game design imaginable, but as long as those subpar elements are tied to Bandana Waddle Dee, it gets a pass. Why the loyalty to such a simple character, even if he becomes detrimental to the gameplay and artistry of the entire Kirby franchise?
(1/2)
Kirby and the Forgotten Land
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I know his fanbase was very vocal when Smash Ultimate rolled around. Maybe it's some kind of sunk cost mentality that was ingrained from campaigning for him to be in Smash, maybe it's a victim complex from experiencing "deetractors" and not getting their wish, maybe they associate Bandana Waddle Dee getting relevance when they themselves succeeding at something. I don't get it at all. But I do think his outspoken fanbase could irreparably damage the series' potential if they start praising subpar gameplay experiences such as 2P Bandana Waddle Dee, just because it's Bandana Waddle Dee, even though the blueprint for much better avenues and characters for the second player already exist within the series. I hope I'm wrong and Bandana Waddle Dee fans are smart enough to tell Hal the second character should be able to copy abilities too, that the second player shouldn't be confined to just a single helper, because if they excuse and celebrate a massively downgraded experience just because of a character they're attached to, multiplayer in 3D Kirby is unlikely to reach an ideal level of engagement.
(2/2)
Maybe Kirby fans are doomed to become like Pokemon fans and just let their series degenerate.
I like dee’s playstyle though, in fact he’s my favorite playstyle in the game, though I will definitely admit its a bit of a downgrade since it means p2 can only bandana dee’s moves and no other abilities
I feel like second player only be able to use bandana dee instead of gooey or a yellow Kirby is less due to shilling of dee or laziness and more due to Hal probably just having trouble making inhaling, copying, and mouthfuls work in 3D, there’s even evidence that they did try making a yellow Kirby for player 2 in the files
Spear is a fun ability, but getting stuck with only one ability for an entire KIRBY game? And even though it's fun, it's still one ability locked into P2 that P1 arbitrarily can't access, while the rest of the abilities and mechanics that P1 can play with are inaccessible to P2. The only way for P1 to experience the spear ability in the main mode, and the only way for P2 to experience what it's like to play a Kirby game, is to swap controllers. Isn't that strange and inconvenient? Ideally, the spear splaystyle could easily be given to both Kirby and Gooey as the spear ability, plus two evolved ability variants.
What unsolvable technical problems could two characters with copy abilities cause? I thought they figured this out on the SNES, GBA, and Wii.
As a fan of Gooey, I am displeased.
To be fair, this game is 3D, something which hal has done in mainline Kirby before, let alone in mainline multiplayer Kirby, not to mention the mouthfuls seem to be incredibly single player themed, especially stuff like the rollercoaster, car, and arc, which would all seem to require a projectile based ability just for player 2 to be able to be involved during these segments
Maybe gamers are manchildren that are incapable of enjoying literally anything that isn’t being shilled hard
Just take the data for the first character and make it another character for the second player to use, create a new model and animations, tweak the inhale mechanic to fit Gooey's unique quirks in DL3, and viola, a perfectly functional P2 character that can experience the content of the fucking game along with player one. It may be a bit tricky to figure out the implications of giving the second player that much freedom, but even modders have figured this out for N64 and GameCube games, Hal should be able to figure it out for their own game.
The more I see this game's marketing featuring the co-op with Bandana Waddle Dee as if it's anything to write home about, I genuinely do believe this is caused by both laziness and security in Bandana Waddle Dee's popularity.
>especially stuff like the rollercoaster, car, and arc, which would all seem to require a projectile based ability just for player 2 to be able to be involved during these segments
Or they could design those segments to have the second player riding, driving, and flying alongside player one. Even if you have to stay in proximity to player one, or else you get warped back to the center of the screen, it's better than being anchored onto Kirby without getting to experience the actual featured gameplay.
I still have a glimmer of hope
Thoughts on Dodge Roll in Forgotten Land? twitter.com
I like his design and I think Spear is one of the most fun abilities. The only real negative is 2P not having access to other abilities.
I feel like she's been getting used a lot less recently. What gives?
maybe she didn't get enough likes on twitter.
Kumazaki really wants to work on an action game with real depth to it but Kirby has never been about that kind of design but he always manages to slip combat options into his games.
Let this dude direct and do art for a new IP please, I guarantee it would be kino.
I thought pic related from a recent trailer was an easel, but it looks like it's just a road block sign.
>I feel like she's been getting used a lot less recently.
Dude she just came back for a single fucking game after over a decade of complete absence, give it some time before you even try to make that statement
>Or they could design those segments to have the second player riding, driving, and flying alongside player one. Even if you have to stay in proximity to player one, or else you get warped back to the center of the screen, it's better than being anchored onto Kirby without getting to experience the actual featured gameplay.
What you described doesn’t sound fun at all
Extra Mode?
strawpoll.com
What I described is infinitely more fun than spamming a useless projectile from Car Kirby's back. Seriously, what's the point of only being able to chuck a spear directly in front of Car Kirby, when they're immenently going to get run over anyway? I had to slow down to let my buddy actually hit something so I didn't feel too bad. The way they designed Bandana Dee for mouthful mode, it wouldn't have been any different if he just disappeared for that car segment. Gooey would also be able to use the cone and stuff too, since there are multiple of those in levels.
To be fair a lot of Kirby characters that aren't the main trio had a long time of absence before Star Allies
>Animal buddies cameo in a Kirby Fighters stage
>Marx in the Mass Attack pinball minigame
>Daroach also in Mass Attack
>Dark Meta Knight in Triple Deluxe
Meanwhile both Adeleine and Gooey got unlucky to not appear since their last game outside of stuff like keychains
I think the slowdown probably lasts a bit too long.
I also think Meta Knight looks a little bigger than Kirby in this game. He should lay off the hot fudge sundays.
Dee, Dedede, and A(de)leine all get their own extra modes like they were originally intending to do in 64
I'd say Bandanna Dee seems like the most likely but the fact that he's already Player 2 makes me wonder how they'd use Player 2 in his own mode
why cant 2nd player just be another kirby
they did it in epic yarn