What the FUCK was the point of Abby's """fear""" of heights? >Able to jump from any height Ellie can. >Jumping is functionally identical to Ellie's. >Her fear does not affect gameplay in ANY way, except for scripted segments. It is narratively inert and it doesn't affect gameplay. What the fuck was the point?
A minor dead character has a "secret" weed lab. Is there any particular reason it's in a clandestine bunker, hidden away from civilization? This really fucking bothers me because weed would not be illegal in this world because there are no laws. The stigma surrounding weed would be a thing of the past in the post-apocalypse.
"Clip her wings". The Seraphites have a specialized phrase that means "break both her arms". This is very stupid. This implies that breaking someone's arms is very common in this cult. It's so common that it is assigned a unanimously-understood phrase. How fucking sever is corporal punishment in this cult? How in God's name did so many people end up joining, when the punishments are so common and severe?
This just further drives home my point that Yara and Lev aren't good people, despite their age. They never even slightly disavow their faith. In a few years they'd be just like all the other NPC's you kill.
Why are grown men fucking breaking both the arms of 13-year-old children? It's so cartoonishly evil and not at all how human beings operate! With a series so dedicated to realism, I'm surprised at how laughably juvenile some of these factions are portrayed.
All we need now is them having literal moustaches they can twirl, and a few puppies to kick.
Why didn't the Seraphites outright kill Abby when they had the chance? They probably recognized her, being "Isaac's top scar killer!"
I mean holy shit, we've got the leader of the Seraphites, an unconscious Abby, and six hours of free time. With how "evil" this cult is, don't you think there would have been a very formalized celebration of her death? If not, then shouldn't they just slit her fucking throat as soon as they capture her unconscious?
But no, the game needs a reason to have Abby live so they suddenly make the Seraphites extremely dumb for the plot.
What was the story function of having Owen have sex with Abby? Owen was just talking about a traumatic experience he had involving a war crime. Abby just murdered a few dozen Seraphites and was about to be crucified, then had to fend off a horde of infected. Was it really appropriate for them to be having sex right then and there? I don't think either of them would be in the mood, given the circumstances. What was the point?
The last thing Ellie is doing before Joel's death is getting stoned. This was a real missed opportunity. The writers should have made Ellie partially blame herself for not saving Joel in time because she was being reckless with drugs and sex. Instead, the weed plot point is dropped like a ton of bricks. The marijuana scene's only purpose was to make the game seem cool to the youth.
Jesse says that it hadn’t been a week since he’d broken up with Dina, yet Ellie and her kissed. Dina is fresh out of a however-many-year long relationship, and the first thing she does is make a move on a shared mutual friend, without any regards of how awkward that would make things for Jesse and Ellie. What a shitty thing to do!
What exactly was Abby's plan when she stormed away from Owen into the snow? Was she just expecting to happen upon Joel in the streets of Jackson? What was plan B?
Why were the WLF group ready to attack the infected with molotovs as Abby, Joel, and Tommy were riding back on horses? They had no earthly idea how long Abby would be gone because Abby left without a word.
If the Rattlers really wanted to lure people into their false Firefly trap, shouldn't they -NOT- have Rattler graffiti everywhere in the neighborhood? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a trap?
To add onto the Rattler's false Firefly trap: shouldn't they make it a little easier for victims to find? Isn't it overkill to have your victims move a large cabinet leading to a hidden basement and activate a ham radio?
And how long have the Rattlers been employing this trap? Owen mentions the enclave of Fireflies in Santa Monica in the flashback from 4 years ago. Have the Rattlers been using that trap for 7 years? (It's been 3 years since the events in Seattle. 3 + 4 years.)
What is the story function of having Ellie be impaled by the tree when she gets caught by the Rattler's trap? Is it so that Ellie has a reason to be stumbling around dramatically in the final confrontation? Or is the game just glorified misery-porn?
Jesse comments on Ellie and Dina sharing a kiss from the previous night. Ellie responds "That's just Dina being Dina." Ellie just called her new girlfriend a slut. Then they go on a suicide mission together because their love is so strong. "You go, I go." They have been hooked up for less than a week. What the fuck is this relationship?
Mel is visibly several months MORE pregnant by the time Ellie and Dina get to Seattle, but Dina has just begun showing symptoms of pregnancy. They were on the road for "a few weeks" says Ellie. Did Dina get pregnant the day Joel fucking died? Was Dina fucking cheating on Ellie?!
What the fuck was Ellie and gang's actual plan? Tommy ventures ALONE to kill Abby. Ellie and Dina follow after. And then Jesse shows up, also having traveled alone? Were these 4 uncoordinated misfits really expecting to take down a civilization? We knew the WLF were industrialized right from the start: they have weapons, uniforms, embroidered patches, and even a fucking motor vehicle. What the fuck were these 4 idiots thinking?
It is implied Ellie, Dina, Tommy, and Jesse waste 3 good horses to get to Seattle. Don't even fucking tell me that Jesse walks to Seattle in a matter of days, even though there is no mention of Jesse's horse.
On the subject of horses, how exactly do these 4 idiots get back to Jackson without all dying? Tommy has a crippled leg and is shot in the face. Dina is debilitatingly pregnant, was shot by an arrow, and had her face smashed in. Ellie was beaten to a pulp and had her dominant arm broken. Jackson is 800 miles away. Part I would have never glossed over this. Part I took great care in telling you exactly how our heroes muscled over long distances.
Speaking of long distances, Ellie decides to trek 950 miles to Santa Monica ON FOOT. Seems like characters in this game can just blip around the country as they please. It's not like it's the apocalypse or anything. Again, contrast this with the last game, where journeying is actually shown to be an endeavor.
Death is treated with respect in The Last of Us 1. Bill's partner, Tess, Sam, and Henry... They are all mourned and mentioned even after their deaths. Contrast this with Manny's swift death in Part II. He is never mentioned again. Ellie knew Sam only for a day. Abby was friends with Manny for 4 or more years.
In fact, Abby had a phenomenal opportunity to mention Manny. Namely, when she confronts the man who LITERALLY killed him in front of her eyes. When she's beating Tommy to a pulp she should be screaming "I KNEW MANNY FOR YEARS, HE WAS A GOOD FRIEND" but I guess the writers just forgot.
After traveling for several long months over 950 miles of wasteland, Ellie manages to find out Abby's location via a comedy of errors. Ellie makes it to Abby moments before she's going to die. To say this whole situation is ridiculously lucky would be the understatement of the decade.
Tommy "I've been putting out feelers for MONTHS now." Tommy "I have found Abby's location." Tommy "Will you kill her?" Tommy "Well I sure as shit can't go!" Hang on just a second Tommy. Why would you make it your personal mission to find Abby's location WITHOUT consulting Ellie? You couldn't have mentioned that you were "putting out feelers" to Ellie in the "months" you've been trying to find Abby? Man, you've got a lot riding on Ellie saying "Yes"! So WHY would you act so butthurt when she replies "No?" She has a CHILD and a WIFE. What the fuck were you expecting? You're just expecting a wedded mother to go on your revenge mission for you? It's been three years since the events in Seattle. You're all incredibly lucky to be alive.
Ellie's lifestyle after Seattle is picturesque, even by today's standards! Literally all they do all day is play with a cute baby, listen to music, and cultivate livestock. Their bedrooms are covered in homemade art. Even Tommy mentions how they're "sitting pretty". So many of us thought this was a dream sequence. The idea that Ellie would give it all up and destroy her relationships for (someone else's) revenge mission (from 3 years ago) is so laughably stupid I don't even know how to fucking process it. It's the APOCALYPSE. The fact that you're alive at all is a miracle.
The writers attempt to draw a parallel between Joel coming to love Ellie and Abby coming to love Lev. Joel's story works because it happens over a long period (over a year) and there's logical reason why Joel will come around to finding love again (Ellie is a surrogate daughter). There is literally no reason for Abby to move mountains for two random cultist kids she has known for less than a day. Yeah, so they're children, big fucking deal. Don't tell me Abby never once capped a teenaged Seraphite soldier. She's willing to drop everything for two strangers in the army she's warring with? She's known as "Isaac's top scar killer." I just don't buy it.
And gee, Abby's face turn against the WLF's sure doesn't make sense. She's been with this crew for how long? Four years? And she's prepared to take a bullet... even destroy all the friends she has ever known just for Lev? Why? They saved your life once... so? The only logical reason I could possibly imagine for Abby's actions is that she's a pedophile. Yara and Lev are the hottest things Abby has come across in recent years. It makes sense because after she has hot sex with Owen, she falls asleep and dreams of those two sexy children strung up and disemboweled. What could be hotter than that? And then when she wakes up she sprints directly towards their last known location, killing everything in her way. It's obvious where Abby's mind was at!
William Thomas
Similar to Manny's death, Yara's demise was shocking for a second but then glossed over. Lev, with Yara's blood still fresh on his face, turns to Abby with tears in his eyes. Abby brushes him off and insists on escaping, then she never mentions Yara ever again. Yara's death seemed like a minor inconvenience to Abby. Makes you wonder why the fuck Abby cared to save her life in the first place. All that work getting those medical supplies... all of the risks she took... all of the relationships she's destroyed... not to mention the WLF's she's killed... all for nothing!
I mean, you have to wonder where Abby's principles lie. She was loyal to the WLF to a fault, and made many friends there. "Isaac's top scar killer." But then she throws it all away for two random kids. When Lev probes Abby about why she's killing her own people, Abby responds "You're my people!" That's a nice non sequitur, but what exactly does Abby mean? She's known this kid for like two days. This is why I think my pedophile theory works. She cares just enough to pursue sex, but doesn't get teary-eyed when they die.
Part of Lev's character is that he is trans... Or, at least he is this universe's stand-in for trans. However, the inciting incident for his transition from woman to man was to become a soldier. But that doesn't make sense because there are already woman soldiers among the seraphites!
Lev also doesn't look any older in the Santa Monica segment. By the events of the end of the game he should be 16, but it doesn't even look like he's hit his growth spurt since the events in Seattle.
Chase Lopez
The seraphites. They mutilate children. They're transphobic. They kill anyone not in their cult. They force 13 year old children into arranged marriages for fuck's sake. The seraphites are shown to be fatally, hopelessly, irredeemably evil. It should be noted that Yara and Lev still cling to their hopelessly evil religion even after they escape. If you think of Yara and Lev as future adult scars, Abby's ("Isaac's top scar killer") decision to save them makes even less sense. The only reason these characters are given any moral leeway whatsoever is because of their age. If they were just a few years older, they would have been scars you slay in regular gameplay without a single thought.
Ellie doesn't forgive a man who called her a homophobic slur. He apologized and presented a peace offering. Ellie forgives the object of all the misery in her life. The one person she slaughtered hundreds to find. The one person she had been dreaming of killing for 3 years and traveled over 1000 miles for. Abby never apologized.
Abby drops everything for these two Scar kids because they "saved her life". Her own words. This act alone was enough to make her go on a suicidal side-quest and betray everyone she knows. You'd think if she is that persuadable when someone saves her life, she would become good friends with Joel and Tommy who saved her life. Consistency! Who needs it?
So... what happened to the WLF and Seraphites? We just going to ignore the fact that there is no satisfying conclusion to the ever-present war in Seattle? The hear over a WLF radio that Isaac has died and then we see the Seraphite island get burned down. Are they still at war? Who got wiped out? Are they at peace? It is never resolved.
Hang on a sec, why would Yara and Lev rescue Abby in this first place? We are lead to believe these two fugitives are desperately fighting for their lives to escape this unbelievably evil cult. You'd think being hidden would be priority number ONE!
I mean shit, seeing people get disemboweled should be old news to them. They probably saw 4 other people get disemboweled on their journey away from the island.
Aiden Garcia
Why on God's green earth does Lev go BACK to "Murder Island?" On an island filled with >deadly transphobia >child mutilation >child sex trafficking >corporal punishment involving breaking both arms
They JUST got out of the frying pan, and now he wants to go back into the flames? What the FUCK was he expecting? WHY?! Dude, he should have SEVERE PTSD through all the shit he's seen. Yara's arm just got amputated and you both almost DIED, and you want to go back into the hornet's nest? What the fuck is this story?
Jonathan Thompson
Isn't it also a pretty insane coincidence that Abby and Owen would save a Seraphite on the exact same day, and go through the exact same story arc, simultaneously. I know it's for the expediency of the plot, but God damn, that's a hell of a coincidence.
Eli Phillips
not responding to all of this because you wrote way too many words (picking a few major critiques and focusing on them is a far more effective strategy than autistically nitpicking 50 different minor details) but i'll tackle the OP >What the FUCK was the point of Abby's """fear""" of heights? >Her fear does not affect gameplay in ANY way, except for scripted segments. the point was the scripted segments, it's a minor character trait that ends up being relevant in the sky bridge scene. tlou is a movie game, not one where narrative affects gameplay - you can't really say "it doesn't matter except in the scripted scenes" when the narrative revolves around the scripted scenes >A minor dead character has a "secret" weed lab. Is there any particular reason it's in a clandestine bunker, hidden away from civilization? he's described as a loner who didn't trust others, his weed lab was secret so people wouldn't come over and smoke it >How fucking sever is corporal punishment in this cult? How in God's name did so many people end up joining, when the punishments are so common and severe? they're a cult. cults don't exactly advertise with "come join us, we have crazy punishments!" they say "come join us we will show you true spiritual enlightenment" and then once you're in too deep to leave they start doing psycho shit >This just further drives home my point that Yara and Lev aren't good people, despite their age. They never even slightly disavow their faith. they're literal children, plenty of time for them to grow up. cult deprogramming takes time and effort >In a few years they'd be just like all the other NPC's you kill. well yes, that''s one of the major themes of tlou2 - that all the npcs you're killing are people with their own stories and motivations, even generic mook #3459
Zachary Cook
I can agree with everything you just said, but it just blows my mind how irredeemably evil this cult is portrayed yet how industrialized they are. A cult this inhumanly disgusting is just not sustainable in my eyes. But I could forgive that, I suppose, if they had ONE redeeming quality outside "extreme discipline". A cult this evil should be having people flee from it every minute of every day. It should not be this populated.
The other thing disagree on is Abby's fear. I was lying when I said I don't know why it exists. It exists only to make Abby more likeable by giving her a clumsily-included flaw. Being a "movie game" is not an excuse to mishandle story elements. "If your movie has a gun in the bar, that gun is going to be used later in the movie".
My problem with Abby's fear is that it does not affect gameplay whatsoever. With a few easy story edits, you can effectively banish it from the narrative without anyone noticing. It's just a poorly-implemented, humanizing flaw. It's relevant for the sky bridge scene alone, then dropped.
Ian Perez
But yeah I agree your point about the weed is likely true.
Tyler Harris
>I can agree with everything you just said, but it just blows my mind how irredeemably evil this cult is portrayed yet how industrialized they are. A cult this inhumanly disgusting is just not sustainable in my eyes. But I could forgive that, I suppose, if they had ONE redeeming quality outside "extreme discipline". A cult this evil should be having people flee from it every minute of every day. It should not be this populated. eh, look at scientology - they have literally zero redeeming qualities, their belief system is pants-on-head retarded and they have literal detention camps where members are punished with physical abuse and hard labor. logically, no one would ever be a part of an organization like that, especially since all of this information is very easy to find on google, and yet they're tremendously rich and powerful and have many influential celebrities in their ranks. people are retarded and willing to put up a lot once they've been brainwashed >My problem with Abby's fear is that it does not affect gameplay whatsoever. With a few easy story edits, you can effectively banish it from the narrative without anyone noticing. It's just a poorly-implemented, humanizing flaw. It's relevant for the sky bridge scene alone, then dropped. yeah i agree with that, although i did really like the sky bridge scene it would've been nice to have the fear been more relevant. this really ties into a larger problem with abby's section, which is that despite its length it really doesn't do a great job of characterizing her and far more time is devoted to worldbuilding/side characters than on abby and her psyche. ellie gets a constantly-updated journal detailing her inner thoughts, abby just gets some hamfisted dream sequences that boil down to "she's sad about her dead dad and also feels guilty about killing joel". they definitely could have done more with her
Noah Rodriguez
>scientology That's a good analogy and I can honestly see the similarities. The key difference is that scientologists aren't murdering other scientologists. This is a key distinction, because we are shown time and time again that any dissidence to the Scars is dealt with swiftly and lethally. Even by literal children. They should have done more to portray how the Seraphites remain a formidable society against a literal army. It's a little silly that a cult this downright villainous and backwards is able to put up a fight against a far more industrialized threat. Scientologists aren't exactly going to war with the US. Maybe the IRS, but not the army.
Luke Murphy
mutilating children is bad and all but damn they're transphobic too thats fucked up.
Blake Williams
I have detected your sarcasm. The reason I bring it up is because it is relevant to the story. I am complaining about why Lev would go back to the island when his very identity makes him a target. It's silly.
Gavin Thompson
>does not affect gameplay in ANY way gameplay?
Charles Miller
I know it's hard to believe that gameplay exists outside the "walk and talk" segments the series is plagued with, lol
Dominic Hughes
That's cool and all OP, but what we really need is blender/sfm of Abby getting pounded by Joel.
