Lost Ark

>so riven mod can be farmed in-game but you paid for the convenience of not farming until you got the specific one you wanted
its behind like 5 layers of rng, getting the weapon type veiled riven, getting one for your specific weapon since rivens are only weapon specific and there's a dozen weapons and also getting one that's not complete garbage, people play for years and never see a good riven mod, also you can buy it ONLY with platinum from other players so there's also that

The fact that people really think there is a significant difference between the two terms is actually frightening. I've been around these games and played these kinds of game long enough, the devs purposefully design games like this:

>multiple interconnected progression systems based around the same materials and currencies
>give new players a bunch of these for free or avenues to get them easy in game at the start while they are getting addicted, not unlike giving people drugs for free
>once they use up these resources, get them stuck in the trenches farming the limited amounts available daily and weekly until they decide to cut corners and pay just a few dollars to get over this one hump and on to the next tier

Its just simple psychology to make money in the long term. Harmony shards in Lost Ark is another example where you mindlessly farm islands for shards, only to lose them thanks to a 60% success rate for upgrades. Either the player overcomes their frustration and goes back to farming islands or they decide to spend some money to buy Gold and get more shards via auction house, it doesn't even matter for the devs. Either they get engagement metrics for the player continuing to play and farm or they money.

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>look goy! the whales can beat the game for the low price of $500000!
>basically, you're just a chump!
oh no, my neighbor drives 5 lambos simultaneously and i drive a shitbox. how will i survive?

It's literally impossible to max your character without paying

>Already lost 25% of players
Dead game walking

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>he thinks we play the russian version
>he doesn't know

Imagine thinking they aren't going to fuck you over as soon as you're hooked

If you can obtain everything in the game without paying for it it's not p2w even if you can literally pay for items that makes you win because at the end of the day if you compare a fully paid character with a character that didn't pay and has the same things they have no advantage over the free player, f2p games will always have something to sell, that's how they stay a live, the problem is when they cross the paid exclusive advantage. If you want to argue f2p model is shit and everything should be only p2p that's a different discussion.
You can also sell things you don't need, like riven mods you can't use, in the market for plats and straight up buy your perfect riven.

>Listen to me goy. I Vlad, PhD Mathematics. I say number. You listen.
i unironically trust amazon more than mail.ru

>gained player on the last bar
cuck

It's the Elden Ring waiting room, expect it to plummet as soon as that comes out.

yeah I've been noticing a lot of the achievements I'm getting from regular play have less than 1% of the playerbase as having achieved them. it's not going to last long. the leveling is worse than black desert but it has the same problem with rng upgrades

idk who it is. I've been playing p2w games for like 23 years and there was never any confusion about what constituted p2w. But you've got these fucking retards in the peanut gallery online who apparently don't play the games at all because they have a different definition of p2w than the entire playerbases. But they assure you that the game is not pay to win, and they absolutely never shut the fuck up.

Sad thing is it doesn't matter that they quit. This game will survive entirely on autistic whales feeding their power fantasy.

the advantage the paying player has is he doesn't have to spend nearly as much time getting there, it is literally impossible for the free player to progress anywhere near as fast as someone paying

Well you clearly didn't follow the New World disaster very closely

What I really dislike about them is that the content itself is just utterly devoid of any creativity. It just feels like you're playing a terrible imitation of what a singleplayer game could offer you. The common argument "this isn't p2w if you're not trying to compete with other players" just doesn't make sense to me. If you're just playing it for the sake of the progression grind without using anyone else as a reference point then you could just play any well made single player RPG with MMO elements like Xenoblade Chronicles.

Holy cope, player numbers are supposed keep going up not drop off a cliff

It can be pay4whatever all i know is i can't stop playing it.

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:)

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have you heard of the hit game world of tanks as seen on any advertisement anywhere as soon as you turn off adblock? mail.ru would be happy to charge you 50 shekels just to breathe goy

The RNG gating is a big part of that too. You can fail to upgrade your gear and lose all the mats, setting you days(or weeks if you keep failing) behind your friends that succeeded. Now they can run an entirely new tier of content while you can't because everything is gated by ilvl and they won't use their limited amount of daily runs to play with you.

It's a Korean game though, so everyone should had known how bad it was going to be going into it.

Look into the history of BDO in the western market. All those horeshit promises on how they wouldn't include certain p2w mechanics that were broken.

youtube.com/watch?v=1YIwlKbSqgs

Time is a flat circle.

play the games you talk about or fuck off

>it's already lost X!
people have been saying this since the release day yet it keeps breaking records

But the game doesn't care about that, in a pvp game at the end of a match the games doesn't say who won based on how long it took them to obtain their items, it just says who won by saying who won, if you can pay for a exclusive advantage that will help you win it's not pay to win.
And every game people say this "it's literally impossible" it's never true or the advantage that's impossible to get is meaningless min-maxing above a threshold that is easily reachable for free that by that point makes every content in the game mindlessly easy.

I've been enjoying it decently enough through the leveling, but I know at some point those rng upgrades are going to come in and I will drop it. I was able to continue with BDO through part of the upgrade process, but that one experience was enough to write it off completely in any game. it's just an obnoxious mechanic that makes it difficult to know when your gear will be better and makes you feel like you're playing slots