RTS died because it's hard

PC just lost influence over time. If you want to make money you develop a game for all platforms. It's not impossible to play RTS on console but it isn't a great experience

YOU WANT A PIECE OF MEAT, BOY?

JACKED OFF AND GOOD TO GO

The story alone is 10000x better

It died because like 350 rta games came out in the early 2000's and caused over saturation

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Right I'm talking about the GAMEPLAY though. BW has literally useless units and retarded pathing

Working on a production based RTS game like Anno 2070 or Victoria 2. What would you want in that game Any Forums?

It turns out, limiting the amount of units you can select at once was a good thing, maybe 12 wasn't enough, but as many as you want is blatantly broken.

Don’t care. Brood war custom games were peak fun

>depot didn't make

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it died because unreachable skill ceiling coupled with extremely sweaty tryhards make every game an exhausting grind. Campaigns are still fun but are short. Multiplayer gets super old super fast.

It didn't die but studios don't have the gonads to try to make a good game, I guess just risk vs reward, potentially spending a lot to develop and not have it turn out good. There's a ton of great games available to pick from though. Let's see if Microsoft will do anything with starcraft/warcraft for RTS (they won't, they'll probably only bought them out to milk WoW)

>"You got my erection."

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>bwfags are literally non-playing UMS storyfags
Holy fuck lol

>artosis died 3 years ago

it still hurts

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Different user
But especially once 2 released the expansions the entire flow of the gane was different, the early game of bw essentially does no exist in 2
The difference in macro and army control make the games feel very different as well

/thread

literally what did he mean by this

He can't die until he makes it into the asl

It died because the genre as a whole became inaccessible after being overrun by metagaming gookclickers, same as with most arena fps

aaaand here come the """"gookclick"""" retards

Cleanse. Purge. KILL.

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RTS died when unit abilities needed to be micro-ed and due to hardware limitations unit counts went down as unit fidelity went up. So it turns away from lead an army into micro this party of heroes.

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It died because you have to memorize the meta and have to build units and shit in a matter of seconds. Anything below 0.00001 sec delay means you lose.

I looked forward to SC2. Year after year, delay after delay. Once they announced that it wouldn't be released with a full campaign for all three races I lost all interest. You're not gonna jew me thrice.
Staunch lyfe.

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Holy shit lol I could send every Any Forums talks about RTS post to scrubquotesx

>RTS died because
It got devoid of any strategy whatsoever

Meta is extremely brutal in all of the popular RTS because people's drive to optimize leaves pathetically limited room for error and a ridiculous amount of effort to reach "competitive" skill. Casual play is punished because you'll lose without understanding why your opponent is ludicrously far ahead, learning opportunities are limited beyond just saving replays and praying you can glean something from them, and online "guides" are almost universally under the impression you are the same kind of poopsock that doesn't really need the video and poorly explain why X works superior to Y. There's zero room for expansion for communities, only reduction and shrinkage.

Explain how I'm wrong.

its merging with tower defense

please post more I need to fill my "Any Forums attempts to discuss games" folder

yeah this and "it's not RTS, it's RTT!" has been a thread since the beginning of Any Forums. In fact it's probably the same fucking guy as it was back then lol. And he's still wrong :^)

Okay heres one, just snip the parts you dont want

WOW, do you seriously believe me to be some sort of bed wetting neanderthal and use first tier units? Why wouldn't I just rush ultras and colossus and thors? Its not that complicated.

>OP sums up the entire thread before it happens
every time

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>OP is schizo fag
Many such cases unfortunately

>C&C
>spam thanks
>win
yes it's hard

As a person who felt like Blizzard died long before SC2 came out and spent god knows how many hours in SC1 and W3, I finally played SC2 when it went F2P and Wings of Liberty's campaign was actually exceptional. And then I played Heart of the Swarm's campaign and I knew nobody in that building knew how to do anything.

>starcraft 2 comes out
>its good but its lacking some stuff
>every RTS starts copying sc2 but they are even more derivitive
>now you have a market of mechanically identical rts games who all copied to worst parts of sc2

meant tanks but I guess you can win with both anyway

Green iz best!

No, that's fucking dumb. First of all, EVEN IF the genre was prone to filtering people hard, there empirically is a market of millions of potential players who empirically were not filtered by the bestselling RTS games. But of course that's not the case: every RTS game is in fact fairly accessible and indeed there are many games that are both less accessible yet more popular than all or most RTS games (hell,I think a very serious argument could be made that even ASSFAGs, often purported as "casualized RTS", in fact have much higher knowledge burden). And if your response is "but m-muh competitive high skill cap 1vs1" then I'd like to offer a reminder that 1) most people playing RTS never participated in multiplayer, never mind the competitive 1vs1 ladder; 2) even if RTS games had uncharacteristically skill cap (which, I would counter, is also dumb: most games have arbitrarily high skill ceilings) is utterly irrelevant in PvP games with matchmaking: if you're in wet toilet paper league then you get to play against your peers and how the game is at high skill levels doesn't factor into the experience.

The main reasons for RTS genre dying relate to defining "RTS" as Dune2likes while there's plenty of real-time strategic games, stagnation of the genre and impossibility of pleasing the extant fans, games focusing on things that "most people" don't actually care about (e.g. focus on 1vs1 ladder in favor of story campaigns, custom games, etc), and that "most people" playing RTS never were into Dune2likes per se and played them for purposes such as command of large armies or historical RP, and now there are games that cater to these niches vastly better (such as Total War and PDX strategy games respectively, both as popular as the bestselling RTS ever were, and more so when you don't include people who were in fact playing Dota or something).

based

It died because most of the devs started chasing consoles and casuals and neither do well with RTS.

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Brood War and SC2 are very different at higher levels. Brood War essentially has no skillcap because it's phyisically impossible for a human to play perfectly becuase no human can multitask that fast. The skill levels between good players, very good players and god-tier players are exponentially massive compared for that reason. SC2 does have a hard skillcap because the game is more about doing everything right and the first one to do something wrong is suddenly at a huge disadvantage, becuase you're playing the game at the highest possible level the way as the developers intend, instead of BW's unpatched mutated meta.

SC2 perfect pathfinding and standardized unit engagement means that positioning and unit movement is far less important in SC2. 90% of the time, it's about who has the better army comp. BW may have janky as fuck pathfinding where units get stuck on eachother, but it means that engagements can go wildly one way or the other depending on how prepared and positioned you are for an engagement. You'll can see a much stronger army die to a weaker one due to superior position or poor army cohesion which almost never happens in SC2.

This relates to the fact that you will see far more build order losses and successful sneaky cheese attacks in SC2, because due to that flawless pathfinding for army engagement (deathballs) being put at a disadvantagemeans it's very, very hard to come back even if you play perfectly, because the other guy is playing perfectly too. The random nature of BW's engagements mean you can always almost come back if you seriously outplay your opponenet. You'll often see godtier players like Flash be almost killed by a cheese build early game by a shitter opponent, only to come back and crush them due to superior ability and gamesense.

those are the main reasons I like BW better

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>SC2 sucked
no it didn't
>it died because
RTS died because it's inherently two difficult for your average retard. that's why mobas took the place of RTS.

>op is a faggot and is wrong
Here have a better summary.

Also I forgot that SC2 units are dull. They tried too hard to balance it. Everything in BW is overpowered, just some things are more overpowered than others.

yeah the thing that turned me off of sc2 was how every fight became swinging deathballs at each other

>assfaggots player literally cannot comprehend personal skill
lmao

I've learned the SC2 story from watching cutscenes and posts on Any Forums. Insane how the best they could come up with was a
>Raynor / Kerrigan love story
>yet another corruption uncorruption plot
>an ancient evil has awoken!

I've heard some soul was in the side stuff interactions in the campaign but don't feel like I missed anything. Blizzard writers should get their hands chopped off if they ever write anything with characters becoming corrupted.

I'll confess that the original had some dogshit writing too in the BW Protoss campaign.
>somehow, the Overmind returned!
>let's gather these magic crystals guise ^___^
The Overmind returning like a second Deathstar was forgiven later since the UED campaign was so great.

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Any good RTS that came out in the last couple of years? AOE4 not included, I don't like it.

yeah I played some 2 just then and got deathballed, fuck 2 I'm going to play BW and hope its as good as you say.

can't turn them into console-centric moviegames so they had to go

>two difficult for your average retard.

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Forgot to mention last rts i really got into with my friends was GreyGoo

They're just bad games, like arena shooters.

apparently it was shit

mobas are just funnier
i'd rather play league than a game of sc2
sc2 gives me migraines, for real

niche didn't grow

ayo fr fr league got that drip fr its easier to blame your teammates than take personal responsibility no cap

you have 90 seconds to talk me into or out of buying aoe4

god i fucking miss starcraft and old blizzard

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It's the Strive of AoE, don't get it

It died because it's not about strategy, it's about how fast you can do stuff, and that's not appealing to people who want to play strategy games.

you know fuck all about strategy you little shit

Mobas are actually more strategy oriented than RTS games. You are capped on how much stuff you can do and how fast - thus you are rewarded for thinking and strategizing more than your opponent, since both of you can only do so much.

no tactics just mass armies of space marines and orks and smash them together and watch the carnage
bonus if you add imperial guard

please post more I need to send scrubquotesx 100 images

I hope you have fun, but I warn you you'll have to spend a ton of hours learning the mechanics before you can even think about strategy vs. another player. Everything that's automated in SC2 is manual in BW, like having to tell every worker to mine individually once built. Just getting your army to actually move all where you want it to, due to control groups and hotkeys feels like an achievement all in itself. Don't even get me started on getting groups of spellcasters to cast properly

>I never got good good enough to understand the strategy, therefore the game does not have strategy

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>teamshit

More than you little monkey nigger, all competitive RTS games devolve into micro control and spamming units all over, doesn't matter if you're smarter than your opponent if he can just outmicro you with much less units.

it died because it became about gookclick instead of comfykino base building

i'm actually good at video games

I wouldn't say the story in Starcraft was exceptional, it was carried a lot by the charm of the voice acting and the cinematics.

I felt like the strongest part about SC1 was the fact that when shit got awful the major factions thought it prudent to work with their enemies to fight a greater enemy. And that fell apart in SC2 where they just forced conflicts and resolutions that just made no fucking sense. There was one mission where the Protoss were insistent on burning a planet and Raynor just couldn't talk her down. And subsequently there were numerous moments where the characters made war but didn't bother calling upon their allies who would have basically helped achieve the same ends with a minimum or zero casualties.

Metzen who was in charge of all the storytelling in all Blizzard games just was bad at his job. He never planned the conclusion ahead of time so he couldn't make anything leading to that conclusion make sense. Even today you look at WoW, which funny enough I also learned about only from reading threads here, and you just see no grand epic story or character arcs just a pile of dumb bullshit slapped together like an episodic cartoon.

holy shit lol

there was something annoying about the way sc2 units were designed for me as well
things like sentries, banelings, colossus, etc. felt like they were designed with scrubs in mind
I dunno if I can describe that any better

I have and in multiple games, but i'm capped on how fast i can do stuff physically so against good opponents i could only win by cheese shit and that doesn't work if they know you. I played AOE2 and Supcom ladder for a long time.

See me in 2 or BW right now faggot

if i were in charge then Blizzard would have remained evergreen golden age
>Starblo
>WoW + 3 Expansions
>Diablo RTS
>Starcraft 2
>WoW 2
>Diablo 4

banelings at least were literally just "what if we gave zerg consistent access to infested terrans"

>never got good good enough
The catchphrase of dead genres

>i'm capped
i'm no capped
fr

sentries are my main bugbear if I'm being honest
I dunno what they were thinking with a unit that can just dissect an army in two

you mean like how they were designed to counter specific strategies?

Iron Harvest is the most recent 'big' RTS, but it was met with mixed reviews. There are a bunch of okay RTS from around 2016 (Deserts of Kharak, Homeworld Remastered, Planetary Annihilation), and Red Alert 1 & 2 got a big remaster a few years back.

Homeworld 3's coming up, though there's no gameplay footage yet. Company of Heroes 3 as well, and there's footage with that, but the way CoH2 broke means there could be another microtransaction hell.

If you're playing with friends, than there's less value in recent RTS and more in good multiplayer RTS. Homeworld Remastered, DoW2, Supreme Commander, etc. Good news about quality RTS being rare is that the good old ones are pretty cheap; buy (or don't) anything that catches your eye and give it a go.

it's not worth the headache
we can do a 1v1 on apex or gg strive if u want

those units were ok for me, if anything the reaper was a little crazy and I hated that I basically couldn't get around using them, HotS zerg got a little nutty, and then the last expansion with protoss I was just fucking done, adepts and the other shits with the exploding orbs were too much

I already didn't like the whole "don't let protoss get to end game and get their deathball" that was basically the game the entire time but fuck those things, disruptors I think

oh and they added tankivac and then took it away. I loved that shit. LOVED it

Have you try Mental Omega?

Of course, yet another shitposter exposed as a non-player

The problem with SC2 is that it expects you to have superhuman speed and reflexes. The whole deathball problem comes from the fact that you can't realistically expect someone to control every fucking unit on the screen, let alone on the map, effetively at every moment.
There was that one AI thing that fucked up world champions hard despite playing like a retard, just because it could micro units better.

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protoss got so much fuckcrazy shit but what pissed me off was how each expansion the factions no longer had visual cohesion and all the new designs lacked the simplicity of the first game

Has this thread just become someone samefagging to "add someone to their cringe compilation"?

RTS died because the barrier of entry is too high for the average retard, and it you try to simplify that (see: Northgard) the entire genre becomes bland and boring for the people who actually like RTS

yeah i've stopped playing sc2 cause i wasn't having fun
but i've played it for a while, i was diamond 1 but never really tried hard
i grew up with bw too

Should I redownload SC2 and try out the Co-op campaign?
Got an itch to play RTS and I just found out their's a Co-op.
What operator should I get?

this has been an ongoing thread for like 18 years. It's an AI perfecting its algorithm to finally make a better game than BW, well that's my theory

Also, personal opinion, but Brood War units are much cooler. I may like the viking as a /m/ech fan, but the butchering of the goliath is unforgiveable.

It died because it's always been a garbage genre and it finally no longer had a staple overrated game propping it up

hands up dont shoot, but I think vikings should have been built at the factory like they originally intended.

>SC2 perfect pathfinding
To be fair though, this is still an impressive feat, and playing any other RTS (newer or older) after SC2 makes you realize "oh, right... pathfinding isn't just a thing that automatically works".

It does make the game a lot of fun to play, and at a level below the pros there certainly is no skill cap, because everyone is FAR from perfect. Thoughand I would argue even pros are far from perfect, even if what you said about BW requiring even more busy work fidgeting making it impossible to master has some truth to it.

If BW is so apparently well designed why are there units so garbage no one ever builds them?

Yes it did. It was so bad, it made shit like LoL and DoTA look good by comparison.

no, because autism

It would be cool if an RTS let your army have specific formations so you could avoid tedious micro or maybe have orders for units to retreat when low HP or something

Prestige 2 Karax. The grind is insufferable. But cheap Carriers beats just about everything.

It had a weird dev cycle but final product SC2 is amazing. Don't pretend BW also didn't need patches and fixes, hell it's also an expansion

It died because its one note. Nothing's changed it since the introduction of hero units.

RTS is not dead and Any Forums either doesnt play videogames or it's pretty fucking casual, and the handful of diehard autists that do play RTS games seriously are completely silenced by the massive and loud voices of comfy casual shitters that complain at the very sight of a challenge. I hate this board so fucking much and I want to see it burn to ashes, for is no longer videogames.

That being said, some anons here are right, the average gamer throught the years has become incresiangly retarded and lazier, will prefer to chase easy dopamine gains from games that dont really challenge you than looking for a real videogame challenge. This caused RTS genre from being popular to become a niche genre.

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>bros does anyone else miss expansion packs take me back
>wtf 2 has expansion packs? Bad game

Yes, and?
It's no mystery gaming got pozzed by facebook moms and phone posters in the past decade. No one is arguing against that fact. It doesn't mean we have to hail candy crush and temple run as the pinnacle of gaming.

Starcraft 2's "expansions" are complete garbage padded with filler. Brood War had 2 great campaigns, and the trashy zerg one, so it had more to offer.

Sounds like your problem was not getting good, and I'm going to wager you will never make it further than 2 games in BW with that attitude.

a lot of RTSs do this

>2 resources
>3 races
>strategy game
It dies because people realized the only popular "strategy" game is casualized dota. At this point might as well play dota instead.

Real Chads play both, because they know they're actually incredibly different in design to the point they aren't comparable beyond both being amazing.

You do fucking realize SC is not the only RTS game, right?

They died because they aren't marketed hard enough.

It died because they forgot how to appeal to casuals
Fighting games made that mistake and almost died too, but they relearned how to appeal to casuals and now they're thriving.

Now we're shitposting

so did arena shooters. what's your point?

I'd rather sit and stare at a blank wall than play league. Not even joking.

ZEST
IS
BEST

It's the only one that matters and that's what killed it. What other relevant strategy games you have nowadays? Age of empires that's gonna die because 4 still has gamebreaking bugs after months.

there actually isn't
scouts, dark archons, ghosts and queens all have their uses, especially in the casual non-competitive games you all claim to love to play, but even in competitive games they're viable in very specific circumstances. It generally takes an actual gosu player to spot an opportunity to use them effectively AND actually choose to use it instead of just hammering down the mutalisk key or whatever because it's easier. I think there was recently a game where scouts got used and it was like, shit, that actually makes a lot of sense this game, or maybe I just saw it recently, not really sure. was a pvt iirc

Because women

AoE2 is still going strong

It's dogshit though

brood war units do feel way more powerful. they don't feel like a game designer carefully balanced them to be fun and fair to play against. when a siege tank line blows up a dozen dragoons because the protoss player moved a bit too far forward it feels like an actual fucking war.

unironically this, the powers that be don't want to admit this but it's a fact sc2 literally killed RTS from now until eternity. gg no re.

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Yes playing with your team is strategy. You have to take into consideration not only your decisions but also 9 other people. Unironically cs:go has more strategy in it than starcraft shit.

AoE2 is still the strongest of the series and is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Plenty of old RTS did that. There's even a SCBW clone called Atrox that somewhat implemented it, if only its pathfinding wasn't Warcraft 2 levels of retarded.

Alright faggots what race should I play in bw
>the one that sparks joy
But I like all of them

Your opinion is dogshit.

It's not bringing any new players or new games aka the genre is dead.

starcraft 2 was the last great rts

It is bringing new players, just very slowly, it's not a dead game and neither is the genre.
Cope.

More than 2 resources is dumb. Starcraft is about defending your bases

I've watched some AoE2DE pro games, and...
Well, let's just say it's nowhere on par with SC2. SC2 pro scene was the fucking tits, arguably peak esports ever.

The reaction times, the APM, the micro... AOE2 pro players look like Starcraft2 platinum players from the game's peak.

I think the whole APM angle is a red herring. For starters, having lots of actions to make logically ought to imply more potentially meaningful decisions where you can out-think your opponent, or at worst it's neutral (i.e. the all actions are rote). Second, your limited ability to do things effectively makes your mechanics a resource, and how you budget your mechanics is a strategic decision (or metastrategy as I'd like to call it): I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize games for focus on metastrategy in favor of "actual" big-picture planning contingent on novel circumstances rather than prepared moves and responses, but criticizing them for lack of decision-making on those grounds is false.

Rather, I think the correct and pointed criticism would be that in Dota (perhaps other ASSFAGs as well) there are more decisions that are novel, and the decisions that you make are more decisive! For example, draft is the strategic analogue to build order and whereas build is something you decide before even starting the game and don't deviate from at least not before encountering the opponent, draft is a battle of wits before you even start the game and where through moves and countermoves represented by the picks you map out big-picture (strategic) outline of how you intend to win the game, be it drafting early game heroes that can go "all mid" (analogous to a rush) or an endgame carry with strong supporting cast that is weak initially but, if it can weather the storm, has a strong later timing (analogous to fast expansion or tech), and if the draft or the game doesn't go your way then you have to improvise with item choices or builds or other such means, whereas in many RTS games you're following a script for large portions of the game (novelties happen, but not as often as in Dota where basically every situation is a novel situation). Yes, this is only fully relevant at high levels of organized play but then, exactly the same is true for most RTS!

Make it funny, weird and lots of personality.

This is truth, Starcraft series are way much more APM intensive than AoE2, which is a way more macro intensive game.
Still, doesnt mean the game is dead, it's just tailored to different players.

>another thread of people blaming players for the fact that devs don't make games they want them to make
why are "gookclickers" killing the genre huh?
because they spend money on it?
because devs go where the money is?
why don't you blame the devs instead for making games you don't like?
its not like those players are the ones making the decisions about how the games are made

Its boring as fuck. Watching Starcraft 2 pros outplaying each other is very entertaining

I'd agree with you at lower to medium levels SC2 is actually a funner game to play, especially casually with friends. Actually mastering the BW busywork obstacle is such a chore even if the game on the other side is more to my liking.

idk about hard but the way the game worked, the AI was set to cheat every time

holy fucking based

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>Starcraft is about defending your bases
I wonder what other game is like that. I think it also has defense in it's name...

>Starcraft is about defending your bases
Retard.

>It is bringing new players, just very slowly
The "new" players are just people who realized how awful 4 is and are playing 2 now.

SC2 macro was crucial too. It's just that all the pro players made it look easy. You could make it all the way to Masters on pure macro. Only at the top 0,1% did micro really start to matter.

true.
normal people dont have time for austistic grinding for a meager reward like playing a videogame when they could just boot up cod, have fun, and fuck their gf.

No, they joined before AoE4 was a thing, see: Liereyy

Missile Defense for arcades, based

MAELSTROM IN PVZ IS UNDERUSED AS FUCK

>2 resources
>macro
Do sc "players" really? I use "players" because It's hardly playing the game. Go play cossacks for some real strategy game.

Good post.

Remember the WoL days when you could mass reapers and make the other guy rage quit? Good times

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It was about base timings and fighting for map control, which is way more engaging and interesting than just juggling different resources.

And unless you were pro, just pressing enough buttons to keep the wheels turning, which is a big part of what macro is.

Damn 1 entire player? I retract everything you said, you're right.

>it feels like an actual fucking war.
Isn't that the point?

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WoL didn't have reapers. Wait, it did?

>It was about base timings and fighting for map control
You realize more resource = map control being even more important right? The cope is on another level.

SC2 pro scene, if diminishing, is still amazing. There are seriously great matches to watch every single week.

It died because Blizzard homogenized it and literally every other franchise blew themselves up for no fucking reason at all.

It was merely an example, but I know you're a retarded shitposting cotnrarian that will never accept being proven wrong.

You're looking at the wrong aspects of the game.

Yeah except your meme game has like 300 players, so it's like AoE where 99% of games are just sim city and then a fight after 45 minutes.

A game like SC2 that's big enough for even regular people on the ladder to study the maps, know every detail of the game, units, tech timings etc. and actively poke each other, try to read their opponent, guess their moves like it's chess will have way more intense and stategic encounters than any literal who game no matter how complex it is in theory.

Controlling a base in Starcraft 2 takes a lot of time. Unlike AOE 2 where you can just build a mining camp and start gathering resources. If the other player destroys your camp, you can still start another one in short time. When you lose a base in Starcraft 2 its pretty devastating and its even worse during early game

>guess their moves like it's chess
lmao

I appreciate some of the details like the base design on randomly generated maps. But if I'm watching the finals of a major tourney and players just regularly forget to control their armies, or misclick their rally point so that units trickle in, or forget to create villagers.... well, it's just not anything like the hype around a GSL game from 2012.

I did watch a little bit in like 2020 I think, and you're right. It was still great. I think I got flashbacks to when the game ate up too much of my time and stopped myself from falling down that rabbit hole.

This triggers the vs. CPU player

rts died because ea killed it. remember this forever.

Death balls are not really a thing in SC2 anymore, only in casual games where both players turtle

Any Forums acts like it's 2010

Is it even possible to win against chess cpu nowadays?

>solos all your starting units and holds off an entire infantry army by himself
wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Reaper got bonus damage vs. light and HP regen in HotS turning them from never being built ever to a terran staple you saw in every game.

WHEN ARE THEY DROPPING THE NEXT BALANCE PATCH FOR STARCRAFT 2

now go argue why random crits are good in a tf2 thread

During highschool
We played Middle Earth 2, Battle Realms and Red Alert 2
Good thing I got the most of it with friends before the genre died

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Probably not.

Have death balls even been a thing since infestor brood lord meta?

Who is they?

RTS died because the skill ceiling was too fucking high, more-so than basically any other genre of games. You have to be good at both micro and macro and be knowledgeable of the builds of every other race. It's the reason why the custom games of SC2 were so fucking popular compared to rank

>Middle Earth 2
1 was way way better, the nothing personnel oc heroes in 2 were so fucking op they could solo entire game.

because they killed westwood by buying it?
blizzard has its share of blame as well

I could never understand the boner for DoW1. Maybe at it's time it as good, but I always thought it is such a senseless shitfest from multiplayer point of view.
>nearly all basebuilding is pointless, buildings just serve as unlocks for upgrades or new units
>at max they work for kiting melee units around so might as well prune them and leave in turrets, gens and race specific things like bunkers, shrines etc
>pathfinding is bad with the squads
>squads and individual units wiggle around and move like retards, there is barely precise positioning
>most fights are just blobs vs blobs and rock paper scissors
>maps are terrible corridors or big open nothings with a few things like hills that can be shot through and craters for passive def bonus
Also balance feels like all over the place, but I did not play enough to judge that. But reaver jetbike spam, fire warriors, GK, necron and sob felt pretty strong.

Because it requires dedication and everyone needs to be good.

MOBAS ruined the RTS genre.

youre retarded

>everyone needs to be good.
I think it's more that the games feel very overwhelming and out of your control unless you are good and therefore "threatening" to new players (zoomer beta males weakened by microplastics and lack of father figure)

Could micro-assist work for RTS? Like click one button to spread marines in case banelings come, consoles use it successfully for aiming etc.

Sounds like a feature designed for people who don't actually play RTS games.
It wouldn't attract anyone and would just piss of the people who actually like RTS and what it entails.

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So you admit "strategy" games are nothing about strategy and just about who can click faster?

Thanks user. We have been playing Beyond all reason lately but something new (or new for us) would be nice. The rest of what you mentioned we played already, some of it extensively.
How's Desert's of Kharak MP?
I also played Northgard last year and I'm thinking of baiting the group to play it in MP together. I only played it in singleplayer. I know it's not "real" rts but it's pretty fucking comfy.

no u

AOE2 is the better experience both viewing wise, and playing

I watched all of competitive SC2 in its hayday from beta to HoTS. It got extremely boring to watch and you could call the winner within 6-8 minutes but casters always hyped it up like it was the shit.

It's almost like a game can have more than one thing. Weird, maybe they could come up with a term for that. Like a big thing and a small thing, you know? To denote the grand scale decisions VS. the in the moment adjustments.

Blizzard were so fucking stupid.

Brood War multiplayer was fucking perfect.

They literally had designed a modern chess.

All they had to do was create StarCraft 2, and keep the same competitive multiplayer, and add all the fancy new units and shit into the campaigns and for custom maps.

But no, they had Chess, and they decided they were going to make Chess 2.0.

They should've taken the path of Counter-Strike. Small incremental changes, but overall, still the same game as the original.

Engines are hard-pressed to win against each other. With contemporary high-end hardware, classical time controls and games played from the regular starting position, they'd have something like 99.9% draw rate. For this reason tournaments make them play busted meme openings that, in addition to providing more interesting games, are less drawish and yield a desired amount of decisive games.

The era of meaningful non-handicapped competition between humans and engines ended somewhere in the mid 00s (for the record, the primary driving factor has been software, not hardware: if you project the hardware scaling of the latest Stockfish back in time, it would have reached superhuman level running on 1990 single-CPU PC). You could of course decide your moves with throw of dice and there's nonzero probability you would draw or win, but even Magnus Carlsen might as well use dice: engine ratings aren't calibrated against FIDE Elo and it's kinda like asking what are my chances of winning against Carlsen (on condition that no meteor drops on his head or something like that, they're actually zero whatever the ratings say) but if you naively do the calculation, he'd have something like 1/1000 chance of drawing as White. Two pawn handicap or 1000x+ time penalty or something like that is what's required to make for games where meatbags stand a real chance.

I COMMAND THEE, KNEEL!

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from any sane persons point of view starcraft 2 was small incremental changes.

Reminder that Homeworld Remastered is -95% off for 2 more days.

gog.com/redeem/MANDALOREHOMEWORLDTW

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I loved the concept of Northgard. I like RTS, I like city builders, I like survival management games. I liked the art style too.

I really disliked how they actively designed it so you could not micro even if you wanted to. Like the game was designed for a tablet port that never came.

BW multiplayer was not perfect
You spend 75% of the time fighting the game UI and shitty pathfinding

>you could call the winner within 6-8 minutes
t. didn't watch SC2 in its hayday from beta to HoTS

Counter-Strike had no "small inceremental changes". CS:S was worse than 1.6. CS:GO was worse than 1.6.

The only "improvement" was adding skins to the game addicting a whole new generation of kids.

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RTS died because LoL took off around 2010-2012

not him, but
>How's Desert's of Kharak MP?
there is little depth to it but it is not bad

TOSS OP AND IS KILLING SC2

yeah until they added a bunch of garbage units and doubled the workers
fucking retard

just like fighting games died cause SFV sucks.

some would say fighting the ui was part of the game. id say theyre retarded, but there was huge backlash over qol improvements when sc2 was being developed. people wanted it to be what this asshole suggests but its still not good enough because dragoons arent getting tangled together

wrong
you can't comprehend the mind games and decision making that happen in a pro broodwar match. RTS players have a trained ability to operate with incomplete info. Was watching a sacsri game yesterday and Artosis explained how at a precise moment in time when the terran's scv was in his base and he had a single zergling attacking him he had to deduce all this info from it and react a specific way. So the terran chose to stop making supply depots, going against most player's basic rules and supply cap himself briefly, to make more units in that moment to defend, just because of some minor autistic detail he got from his recon. SC is non-stop mind games and strategy and that's why starcraft pros become poker pros

Because it's too hard and the competition from moba aka light-RTS got too fierce

More starting workers was a good change

oh wow a metagame developed from the small changes. blow it out your ass

RTS died because of metafag.
You won't enjoy winning unless you are min maxing every shit.

I get having to compete with the ever more fried brain twitch audience and minimizing downtime, but I really miss the comfy early game of WoL

good answer, but you must also mention public demand along with Justin TV.

debatable, it turned every game into the same shit
dont talk to me retard

Many people play RTS to watch chaos of big armies clashing, and that is exactly what it provides. Bullets flying everywhere, people flying everywhere, everything fucking exploding, everyone and everything screaming fury, destruction and despair, and in the middle of all this one marine doing a cinematic finisher on an ork boy. And setting and voicing improve it significally, WH40 providing a dark yet goofy universe with all kinds of factions tearing each other apart for no better reason than being near each other, and voice actors doing a fucking incredible job at giving character to even lowliest units.

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sc2 isn't as good as bw but it's better than 90% of other rts lol

Whether SC2 sucked or not is arbitrary. What killed it is Blizzard's dogshit management.

rts died because custom games died. There used to be stuff like "no rush" games but nobody does that anymore because everyone wants to tryhard instead of just goof around.

SCV rush is a form of goofing around

but you can't quantify fun had in a custom game into points and levels so how are you going to build an addictive drip feeding mechanism around it?

SC2/HotS was killed by LoL/Dota

WoW was killed by FFXIV

Overwatch was killed by Fortnite

Diablo was killed by the red shirt guy

If Blizzard can't get a big WIN on that survival IP that they just announced, they are done

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It's aoe but with civs that actually fucking play differently which should always have been the case, but does this without being too "messy" design wise like 3 was. It takes some of the better elements of other aoes and brings them all together, then adds a few unique mechanics for some civs and even togglable abilities for some units a la COH.
I'll admit it's short on content and the UI is uninspired but otherwise it's genuinely good.

its boring

>survival IP that they just announced
Wait what?
They have new game?
Name please

hots was killed by greedy management. it was its own niche

jej

kek

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WC3 Reforged got rid of corny custom maps.
That's it.

I would've gone back. Every RTS player would've gone back.
Fuck blizzard, I'm glad they're suffering. Like anyone gives a shit about us playing dodge the rapist or DBZ tribute between matches? Like the next DotA is gonna spawn in your community if you try to monetize it before it exists? Fuck you.

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Yeah, based. Honestly nothing else like it for actually using strategy (or tactics for the autistic nitpickers) to outplay your opponent. In no other game have I managed to come back from the brink of defeat with a couple of well timed attacks or a good flank on a valuable enemy unit. I've won a lot of games with 10 or less VPs remaining after getting slammed the whole first half of a game, and no other strategy game I've played has come close to the excitement of fucking up your opponent so unexpectedly.

They announced a new survival game recently, no other details were given other than it supposedly being for PC and consoles.

news.blizzard.com/en-us/blizzard/23768911/create-a-new-universe-with-us

Name a more retarded unit

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RTS died when it went 3D
Fight me or not, I don't care

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news.blizzard.com/en-us/blizzard/23768911/create-a-new-universe-with-us

Would be nice to see it succeed

but seeing blizzard crash and burn further wouldn't so bad either

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I swear to God.
If you blizzdrones blindly support this game...

i am dog shit at rts but i must have 800 hours in dawn of war just playing against computers because the factions while not being entirely unique mechanically were so distinct. except for space marine and chaos marines, their grunts looking exactly the same makes them boring as shit.
people want to try hard but the reward for being good at a strategy game is seeing less goofy shit as people streamline their strategies and focus on efficiency over flavor. suddenly your favorite unit is only good at the 8-14 minute marks or something depressing.

nah it's in a fucking awful genre I don't care about

""Fans"" killed it

total annihilation is one of the most 3d rts there have ever been and its certainly not a zombie of a game

when are we getting the protoss nerfs

RTS died because devs wanted to rake in the competitive scene money but 95% of the playerbase just wants a replayable compstomping experience
grey goo
company of heroes 2
dawn of war 2 and 3
planetary annihilation
same story, different games

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I find it unfun and frustrating when I tell a unit to go somewhere and it's more likely to not make it there than to do what I wanted it to.

the broodwar esports scene was a bad thing for blizz imo. instead of letting the scenes grow naturally like in broodwar and warcraft they started going too hard in that direction. overwatch didn't deserve this

RTS died because it's a stale genre and you can't do anything significantly different. Even adding hero units was a sacrilege, just reinstall RA2 or AOE2, they reached perfection anyway.

>cheap Carriers
Don't they end up at the price of normal carriers? His units are already more expensive than normal.

it 'died' because most people want to play mobas controlling 1 unit. Absolutely nothing else is as important as that.

thats not rts though and doesnt even feel like it

Please kys faggot

>AOE2
Is AOE2 really that good?
I have never played it, so I can't wear any nostalgia goggle.
I wanted to buy and try it, but is afraid that it's gonna be old and outdated.
Also that playing with AI is probably gonna be boring.

>RA2
>When superior TS exists

RTS died because they never innovated. Why does Real time strategy have to be synonymous with starcraft clone. Not one game ever tried to mix up core aspects of the game. MOBA‘s are unironically the only innovation in rts in 20 years

Its good but a little slow if you are a Starcraft guy. Matches can last for hours if you dont play a small map

ok.
should i get the original version or the definitive version?

DE. QoL additions, it's cheap and the updated visuals are not shit for once, which is impressive giving how awful are today's remasters/remakes.

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definitive

but i did
it was shit, and watching it in low quality on gom player was shit too

RTS be racist cuz they be hard to play n shiet. They need to make it mo’ like Diablo.

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Riot needs to make an RTS

It's fun at casual level with friends.
For tryhards its shit because the meta is super fucking stale. It's knights on low ELO because they steamroll everything if you can't micro and crossbows on high ELO because they steamroll everything if you can micro.

It used to be you'd play these games on a LAN against your mates and you all sucked.

Now everyone has the internet and online matchmaking and the amount of effort you have to put in just to compete makes the whole ordeal suck. Same as fighting games really.

this. I loved rts, and I couldn't give a single fuck about playing starcraft 2. Unbalanced fucking garbage.

nah, they saw that rts made gamers smarter, so they decided to discontinue the genre. You're a stupid normie faggot.

This. Command and Conquer 3 was decent but could've been God-tier if it had been originally developed for PC. Same for Red Alert 3.

TODAY, I WILL REMIND THEM

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Are there any fun single player RTS games or is it all just multiplayer autism?

Northgard have very cool singleplayer

Battle for Middle Earth is peak single player RTS

Spellforce 3 is pretty fun

RTS died when it started focusing on multiplayer and competitive balance over everything else. Who the fuck played the C&C games for ranked multiplayer? We all fucked around in singeplayer or on LAN, building the most expensive units or just nuking each other from orbit. It was never about anything else than having fun, and a focus on singleplayer, a solid campaign and interesting units is how you get there

SC became an esport not because it was designed to be one, but because players found enough depth in its mechanics. SC2 failed because there wasn't any depth to be found, specifically because Blizzard wanted a competitive balance that they could easily manage and tweak, and that would still allow them to cast a wide net marketing wise. So what did they do? Rock-paper-scissors. That was their solution. And to be fair, it's probably the only solution that fits those criteria, but it still results in a boring game with stale gameplay and no replayability. If at least the campaigns would have been fun, there would have been some sort of redeeming quality, but as we all know the Blizzard writing team suffered a collective aneurysm at some point during WoW and/or its many expansions

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>mfw got filtered by helm's deep

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