It was reported recently that Russia makes far more money through increased gas and oil prices than it loses through the war.
This raises the following question: The German Green party has been shown to be infiltrated by the Russians, and their energy policies (in particular their push for renewables ithrough the Energiewende) are aligned with Russian interests in terms of keeping us dependent on them by taking down our nuclear plants and all fossile energy generation.
Since the start of the Ukraine war, however, we have seen the German Greens,, seemingly, oppose fiercely Russia's attack, which is at odds with the insight that they are in the hands of Russia. In particular, the German Foreign Minister (!) recently declared that she would "stand with Ukraine, no matter what [her] German voters think."
Given the benefits that Russia takes from the war, how likely is it that this is just an extension of the Greens' covert Pro-Russian strategy so far, and what looks like opposition to Russia actually helps them?
Americans want to destroy German industry so who knows
Wyatt Anderson
>it's russias fault we are retarted
Isaac Foster
American and Russian interests are aligned in this respect, to some extent. Both have an active interest to keep Germany dependent on others.
No, Russia just realized how retarded we are and exploited it.
Angel Gray
You know this is something I've been thinking about for a long time. While I still think that the Atomausstieg is a cold Germany catched from Austria (which even constitutionally banned nuclear power), it is very clear that the Russians used the Fukushima disaster to promote their gas imports and what better way than to support anti-nuclear hysteria, even leading to the closure of the only Thorium reactor in use for elec. production in the world. At first is was Russia's business interests, but after Crimea 2014 it became increasingly geopolitical and I really think they subtily influenced the Greens on the internet until everyone in the German speaking world was against it. I can't find any credible pro-nuclear videos on Youtube in German. But it should be noted that movements like Greenpeace etc. were also always against Kernkraft, because green rock bad. And now the European economy and the climate are fucked.
Kevin Gonzalez
>and exploited it. How? The west started sanctioning And russia can't set prices on gas, it's a market
Jackson Barnes
It started during the Cold War of course, not just now. I think the fact that esp. Germany is so firmly decided to keep the sanctions up is a result of this exploitation, that is, propaganda, espionage and other interference. Of course, Russia cannot set the gas prices, but they can e.g. push Germany to keep the sanctions up to skew the market.
Xavier Bennett
Did I catch that correctly that you think that it's not _just_ the Russians, but a confluence of several more or less independent movements, some of which are genuine and some astroturfed or influenced by the Russians? In that case I'd agree.
The situation in Austria is of course vastly different, we can generate a rough two thirds of our energy using just water thanks to our being literal Schluchtenscheißer. I don't know what's up with the ban on nuclear for Austria but it always seemed to me that there's something special about Austria that makes it a playground or playball of international politics and the interests of various parties.
Matthew Hall
>but they can e.g. push Germany to keep the sanctions up to skew the market.
But it's not germany who decides on sanctions but usa Besides, russia tried to make the ddr a decent country. It was the wealthiest socialist country afterall. East germany to this day is fond of russian rule, eg you can buy russian soup in any cafe in dresden. But politics is decided by brd people
Hunter Collins
Yes, Gerard Schroder (aka General Scrotum) was a former Green party member and had deep pockets with the Russian oil and gas industry.
America depends on German industry, because America makes nothing in 2022
Adam Barnes
You can buy russian babushka puppets and fur hats in tourist shops at Charles Bridge in Prague, and the Czechs hate hate hate Russia(ns). I suppose the same holds true for the former DDR towns like Dresden.
Of course Germany doesn't decide on the sanctions on its own, but its voice is important for the overall decision, and in particular, they could refuse participating in them which would probably lead to some degree of cooperation with Russia again and lower gas prices.
Christopher Rogers
>Are German Sanctions against Russia ackshually pro-Russian? Yes
Charles Adams
I don't think they can Eg Merkel was as pro-russian as possible Still sanctioned It's "zwei Fliegen mit einer Klappe schlagen" You weaken russia and weaken europe Same happened when nato bombed northern africa causing the flood of africans into europe
A vassal state doesn't have a true voice
Carter White
Why are you blaming Russians for what goes on in Germany?
The American Empire still occupies Germany and uses it to impose it's will on the rest of Europe.
Colton Walker
Well, it's the entire hypothesis of my OP that sanctioning Russia is only doing so on the surface. I cannot speak to the effect of the previous governments' sanctions, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility that it was some form of deal with the Russians that benefitted them in the end.
Anthony King
I don't think it's benefiting russia at all It's just harming europe and russia While benefiting USA Like ww1 ww2
Evan Watson
Yeah it's always a combination of factors.
Austria is energetically-speaking super lucky because of the hydroelectric potential of the alps and the solar/wind potential in the Pannonian basin, so Austria can afford not to go nuclear. After all it isn't a perfect power source - because you need to store some really toxic waste, so if you don't need it it's nice not to have it. But a country like Germany or Hungary simply cannot have the same policy. Are we going to build a dam in Hamburg? Yeah I don't think so. The Energiewende is a good thing, because we really need to solve climate change and because coal power genuinely produces pollution. But for most countries nuclear power simply must be a part of that mix or one is simply delusional (or pro-Russian).
Our primary objective shouldn't be environmental protection with soya milk, bio energy and Zwangsveganismus - we need to bring down CO2 emissions with what works best without compromising economic growth (too much) and getting energetically independent from Russia (which is super unrealiable, I mean look at the inflation in pro-Russian Serbia).
What use is bio-öko and environmental protection, when the environment burns down because of CO2 emissions
Luis Evans
The fact that german/austrian greens went against nuclear was the biggest signal that we're living in a corrupt clown world to me personally. And they actually succeeded... What a fucking shitshow.
Well, Europe could be forced into using less energy now by focusing on efficiency, not energy production... So there is still some hope?
Sebastian Roberts
>The Energiewende is a good thing I can accept that research into new energy sources is a good thing, and also getting away from inherently finite energy sources like fossils that also don't scale exponentially. But the Energiewende as a political meme was just retarded, and the word to me always has the connotation of being decisively anti-nuclear. So I am somewhat skeptical about this.
About CO2 emissions: If we suppose, for the sake of argument, that these really are a as big a problem as they are made out to be, why should a country like Germany hamstring its economy and innovative potential while essentially outsourcing all its negative CO2 impact to third world or emerging countries? Wouldn't it be a much more sane course of action to be as pro-nuclear as it gets and try to get India and China to rely almost exclusively on nuclear (which is a trend anyways already)?
Xavier Brooks
okay you convinced me that youre a bot
Lucas Russell
dont bother, let the shills be retarded.
Justin Lopez
You're right, but I still want to push for both nuclear and renewables. You see I got infected with optimism. Fuck Russia tho Yeah let's not shit on our neighbours too much, we have enough of our own problems and Austria, Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are the rare few countries that legit don't need nuclear.
