Gorbachev

>Gorbachev
>Russians call him a traitor
>Westerners praise him so much we may as well unbury him to suck his dick

What's the Any Forums take

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based simply because of his head

He wasn't a bloodthirsty Communist like his forefathers and he wasn't a Capitalist like the west seems to pin him as.

He was a Communist who was honest about how the system failed. He wanted to preserve the Soviet Union but he also knew things had to be adjusted to end the current issues.

He wanted to convert the Soviet Union into a Soviet Confederation. The only reason that didn't happen was the August Coup ruined it.

In an alternate timeline, the USSR would have existed as a more hybrid system (probably closer to China) but there's no telling what the next head of the party would have done.

The new system is only somewhat better. Yet Putin just traded what few western luxuries they had for a war with a neighbor that most Russians actually like.

So the whole thing is fucked.

Gorbachev was a nice man who loved his country. May he rest in peace.

Corrupt kike faggot

If not for him, we should have had picrel by now.

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He was really good because he delivered the world of the fear of nuclear apocalypse. What happened to Russia after he was ousted by a coup is not his responsability.

I don't care anymore about what the russians say. They also bash fascism and praise soviet symbols. That speaks volumes about their understanding of the things of the world.

lol he LITERALLY took military action against Latvia and failed. People that think he was responsible for the fall of the union are completely retarded. It was a unachievable goal the russian army was as effective back then as it is now. Russians later got a repeat of that in Chechnya where they had to cuck to muslims and pay them to stop chimping out. If anything he spared russia further humiliations.

He let go of the Warsaw Pact countries and USSR states without sending (that many) tanks.
Only Russian subhumans hate him.

He spoke honestly about the issues that impacted not just Russia and the former USSR but the world as a whole.

It can be argued that the Russian people were locked up so long in a totalitarian system that they needed the stability of a strong leader to guide that transition for a generation or two.

People who weren't born with democracy or personal freedoms don't necessarily know what to do with them once they have them.

We expect people to just "get it" because in the west they're taken for granted. It's not that simple.

The problem is Putin never wanted democracy. He wanted old Russia back but in his image.

He’s a filthy traitor that sold out his own country to oligarchs and brought about the worst period in Russian history since the Russian Civil War.

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He was as incompetent as Joe Biden but his staff was more corrupt and that is why the USSR collapsed - because the people in charge had already stolen .assume wealth and didn't care about the people or Empire.

>He’s a filthy traitor that sold out his own country to oligarchs
I think you're mixing him up with Yeltsin.

Retard take
Pretty much this

A bird shat on his head

No it would have not, it would have ended more bloody than the coup.

He sold our country to the West, so naturally we do dislike him. For Westerners he was a gift that kept giving since he practically ended the Cold War by destroying the West's only opponent. So there is no fixed opinion on him, its a matter of perspective.

However, he did do something good for us. He is a warning to China, a warning they have understood and taken into account. In our death we have taught China a lesson what the West is actually like and how they will treat you once you stretch out your hand to them. They'll finish what we've started.

its times like this that make me wonder
was gorbachev a rapist?
do we know for sure?
we have to know

>thinking China is Russia's friend
lmao they'll ram their little dick in your Siberian ass and you'll like it

No, China isn't our friend and I never said that. They are merely someone who has the same grudge against the West, but unlike us can castrate their world domination.

At least Oligarchs won't send you to Gulag.

What do you think is more probable - that they would confront with the West or try to chip away as much from Russia as possible?

When Yeltsin took over, the oligarchs had already brought up most of Russia and he merely oversaw this takeover. Gorbachev caused the economic collapse of Russia so the oligarchs could buy everything up for pennies while he got off with his golden parachute.

being China`s bitch is not a valid alternative.

The West needs to get ride of the degeneracy and maybe we can work it out. I get the feeling Russian leader often viewed Western Europe in a positive light back in the days (like Peter the Great)

So far we have seen only the former.

Putin decided the make a new iron curtain when he invaded Ukraine and Gorbachev died this year. That is quite the irony...

btw the soviet Union was pretty fucked when he took over. I think you should blame more the drunkard Yeltsin for your misery

>being China`s bitch is not a valid alternative.

Its not about being someone's bitch. We are just doomed as a country. But in death we could at least support the enemies of our enemies, such as China.

that was Yeltsin, he was the one to secretly negociate with other countries like ukraine to dissolve the soviet union and he was the one who controled russia
you can criticise Gorbachev a lot but others are more responsible for the problems of the russian federation

you are certainly doomed when you stay in this Federation. You will be replayed by sand niggers and asians

>No, China isn't our friend and I never said that. They are merely someone who has the same grudge against the West, but unlike us can castrate their world domination.
They're not self-sufficient in terms of energy or food production. Cutting off China's supply lines would ensure its collapse.

See? You get it. The reasons are more economic though, but nevertheless. China, on the other hand, seems to be doing something right with their country. Maybe they learnt a lot from our failures and shortcomings.

>The problem is Putin never wanted democracy. He wanted old Russia back but in his image.

>Old Russia

Like under Nicholas II? Before Lenin? Or under Konstantine?

Dude rode the failing Soviet Union down into the ground. Stepped off and was adored by the West.

I have to tell ya, it's a lot of praise for being a Soviet Dictator and not being great at your job.

If I'm the Head Executioner at the factory, and everyone loves me because I don't do my job, how great am I really? Had I the vision and fortitude to eliminate the Head Executioner position, perhaps I would be worthy of some respect. But if I simply clocked in, got paid, and the factory gets shut down? Not exactly a revolutionary.

I guess you could consider his open diplomacy with the West revolutionary. I think it's why the current asset managers in Russia aren't big fans of his. They're not even going to throw him an official funeral.

Literally nothing he could do it was gonna collapase thanks to Brezhnev. He was the fall guy.

Nikita was single handedly their best leader and they ousted him.