Can anyone here give a straight answer - what went wrong?

>implying anything went wrong

>what went wrong?
the invasion

All Russia has to do is take the donbass and they won.

your IQ too low

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soviets fighting soviets

/thread

underestimation of us

it's fake...

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They're currently losing territory though. They've completely retreated from Kharkov.

They expected little to no resistance, and got a lot. They advanced until they ran out of fuel and material and overextended themselves totally. And the Ukrainians hit them hard for that.
By the time the Russians had their own shit together, NATO had already started dumping massive amounts of material into Ukraine, making it now a war of attrition between NATO via the Ukrainian population and Russia.

Ukraine has better tech, manpower, leadership, organization, and morale. In some areas their advantage is overwhelming as in the case of GIS Arta.

The entire world underestimated Ukraine.

Kharkov isn't Donbass you jackass. You guys have a complete misunderstanding of how any of this shit works. When you judge a war you have to judge that war by the objectives set out by the kinetic nation.

Is losing a territory a good thing?

Total subjective bullshit. All you faggots are doing is circle jerking a narrative into existence. There is no proof Russia wanted to take Kiev or Kharkiv or Kherson for that matter.

Putin is delusional and was overconfident. Russia is basically still stuck in 1990 both in mentality, training of military, tactics/strategies and their equipment.

Putler exposed his own country by showing the rest of the world how incompetent, uneducated, unprepared and overall stupid they truly are. Russia is unironically North Korea 2.0 now.

In war territory shifts based on objectives. The territory they had taken can only be a loss if it was the goal of an objective. No such objective has ever made official nor stated for that matter.

Nothing went wrong, it's going according to plan. The areas ''liberated'' will be handed over to kikes to establish new Khazaria. Those who won't get killed by the fighting already left these areas - minus the civilians being held hostage by the Ukrainians.
So a vast, fertile land free of any habitation, ready for kike colonization.
Putin is a Chabad stooge. He and Zelensky will get a beer together once the project is complete.

Again you are basing your view on faulty assumptions.

10/10 I kek'd

Nothing. Everything is just normal Russian life.

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Jesus, man

You can mock all you want but you are just showing how your brain is MSM mush.

>Losing most of the territory we captured is fine
>We never wanted it anyway
Please don't turn this into a cope thread, friend.

Hohols shot at the Donbass instead of autonomy, as agreed in Minsk

You have no substance.

Except instead of being friends with nba champion Dennis Rodman they have the fat fraud Steven Seagal

You are being disingenuous. The only way your point of view works is if Russia stated they wanted those territories. The only territories that are officially objectives are in the donbass.

gee I wonder

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All going according to plan
In two more weeks it'll come to fruition

But north Korea won the war...

And when it turned into an actual War Putin refuses to allocate additional troops, Russia doesn't have enough men deployed to fight on such a large frontline. Ukraine has a numerical advantage of around 5:1 at this point, even if a lot of them they are basically civilians with guns Zelensky is basically capable of the favoured USSR tactic of throwing bodies at enemy.

irrelevant disinfo crap

Novorossiya includes both Kharkiv and Kherson. Taking Odessa requires taking Kherson. Taking Eastern Ukrainian oil reserves requires taking Kharkiv.
You could say that taking Kiev was unnecessary. But all other other places were required to make this war anything other than a massive waste of time. The Donbass was not valuable enough to justify this war, and pretending that it was all that Putin cared for is just being retarded and ignores the actual military advances that he tried and failed elsewhere in the country.

Luhansk is almost fully liberated. The russians should then hold a referendum and formally annex it.

All fan fiction garbage. The only in any of this shit you made makes any sense is if MSM was running the war for Russia. Again Russia never claimed any of that shit as their objectives.

>It's a faint bro, NATO just activated Putin's trap card.

Russia expected a quick victory like a coup deta, this was to be achieved quickly and with minimal men, when this went tits up because the ukies put up a fight, the Russians where hesitant about sending more men because it would risk escalation and look bad at home since they needed more men showing it was a real war, the Russians are not willing to send in more men and 200 thousand is only really enough to hold the territory they still have, you know the stuff on the map

>We sent troops to Kiev, Kharkov and Nikolaev for no reason
Don't do this. This thread is for serious discussion, not cope.

Big Monke thought Ukraine would fold the moment that 50km line of trucks drove in from Belarus.
Big Monke thought the Europeans weren't unified and the United States wouldn't give a fuck.
Big Monke believed that his army weren't hollowed-up by corruption.
Big Monke can't goes into logistics.

Why would russia tell the world their objectives?

no air power.

Poor execution due to low morale, and poor logistics.
Quite frankly they underestimated the rest of the world propping up Ukraine. They thought nobody would get involved at the threat of nukes.
Its a shit place to be in currently, and a political win for Russia is now near impossible.
Thats about as simple as it gets.

Without knowing what the strategy was no one knows that anything has gone wrong. Since day 1 Western media was making claims that Russia was trying to invade all of Ukraine yet I never once heard Putin or any Russian state representative say that.
To me everything looks obvious. Russia wants to cut Ukraine off from the ocean and if they can capture the coast all the way past Odessa then they'll do so. Invading across the North twards Kiev prevented Ukraine from mounting any meaningful resistance to Russia in the East. Now that they control the East they've pulled back forces from the north and Ukraine is taking abandoned territory and pretending they won a battle to do it.
Call me when Ukraine retakes the Donbass.

Not enough man power to subdue a country that large, they were banking on taking Kiev.

Russia are pulling their troops ftom syria 30k soldier 30k officer

>still lose
Unable to define what a win is. I guess everyone loses then huh?

Novorossiya is not an official objective. It is a opinion or a subjective view of mainly western so called (((experts))). Is there some truth it? Maybe there are speeches where Putin spoke about novorossiya but that on it's own doesn't mean it's a objective.

>Again you are basing your view on faulty assumptions.
>Nothing went wrong, it's going according to plan. The areas ''liberated'' will be handed over to kikes to establish new Khazaria. Those who won't get killed by the fighting already left these areas - minus the civilians being held hostage by the Ukrainians.
>So a vast, fertile land free of any habitation, ready for kike colonization.
>Putin is a Chabad stooge. He and Zelensky will get a beer together once the project is complete.
>Luhansk is almost fully liberated. The russians should then hold a referendum and formally annex it

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Maneuver warfare

Putin is a coward all he had to do is to carpet bomb the cities.

The Americans do it all the time with great success.

Russia stated during WW2 that they want no foreign territories

You are not serious you fucking UK, Poland, Ukraine cyber pact disinfo fag. Kiev and Kharkiv are as much Russian objectives as they are feints. And in fact there is more proof they are feints.

You write like a fucking retard, you have insanely stupid takes, and you're defending Putin + Russia like your life depended on it. Are you Russian by any chance?

I don't see how it would be possible to take Kiev with ~20k troops that were sent there. So it is a mystery why

>You guys are so fucking stupid and just don't get it. Russia always planned to do a military feint and seize the capital of Kiev. It was a distraction from their real goal: eastern Ukraine. It's actually a genius military maneuver. There is no retreat. The military regroup to the east was planned from the beginning. Kiev was never a goal for Putin. The Russians are now regrouping for a renewed fresh offensive to finish taking the original goals they had planned all along. It's actually very impressive how well planned out and executed this military operation was. They achieved their objectives with barely over 1k casualties and completely crippled Ukraine.

Because that is how they are judged in the geopolitical space at least historically.

>but muh civilians

Who the fuck cares about slavs?

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Estonian Telegram schizo take:
>We are so caught up in the current conflict I feel it's important to take a broader view of Russian military history, and understand one simple fact which helps give perspective and understanding to this conflict:

>Russia has never performed well in any war it has ever been involved in.

>From Charles the 12th, to Napoleon, to Hitler, Russia never outclassed their opponent, they simply outlasted them. Russia never defeated Charles, Napoleon, or Hitler because of military skill, but because of their vast landmass, resources, and population.

>Famous Russian military leaders are very few and far between, and when compared with the best of other nations such as France, Germany, Britain, their careers and achievements are severely lacking.

>Russia performing poorly in war is not an exception, but rather the rule.

No the plan was to intimidate the Ukr regime into agreeing a deal. How can you call it a "steamroll" if they never attempted to enter the city?

Russia are there to "liberate" (depending on your perspective) the Donbass region, and that seems to be in concordance with what the maps are showing. It seems like they're taking the south and trying to landlock Ukraine as a bonus.

Ask an average north Korean if they consider it a win. How is that win looking now? Lost a few inches of height because of generational malnutrition.
>this is what winning looks like?

fake Russian

Putin literally said before the invasion that Donbass would be independent.

And the Moskva was a "tactical sinking to act as a distraction" lol. Get out of here with your cope. That's between you and your therapist.

Russia started WW2 with the molotov ribbentrop pact so you are fucking stupid.

isn't Suvorov considered one of the most successful commanders in history

Both sides are made up of retarded nigger slavs.

>you have stupid takes
you have said nothing.

shitty equipment caused by shitty leadership caused by corruption at every level of the state. basically putting the whole military industrial complex in the hands of a few of his hand picked cronies lead to putin's army have shitty outdated equipment, lack of modern ammunition and subpar military rations. the guy pretending to put an end to oligarchy and corruption in russia gets fucked by corrupt oligarchs he helped install. russia deserves better than pootin.

-wrong operation premise
-quick change in strategy that failed
-ukraine is just damn good and motivated

ITT
>IT WAS A FAINT ATTACK REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You can mock all you want. But the only objective way to judge a war is by how the invading army takes their stated objectives. So far Russia has been following the objectives Putin made before the invasion.

That is irrelevant. Armies take losses during war. Even casualties don't matter if Russia takes the territory they want.

russians are basically white shitskins, thats what

none of that is true.

the Korean war ended in a stalemate and NK is a backwards shithole

>You can mock all you want
You've said this multiple times. Is this what you wanted? To be mocked by multiple people for your mental state?

The entire war was a clever diversion to distract the West putin will turn around and take over mongolia while no one is looking

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seethe

I don't litterally don't give a shit what your opinion is and it's irrelevant to who is winning in this war. All Russia has to do is take the donbass and they won.

cope and dilate

They attacked Ukraine to destroy the biolabs. Shills and deep state media want you to believe they invaded to occupy the whole country, but thats false.

>you have said nothing.
Right back at you. It's also very telling that you didn't deny being a Russian. How much is Putler paying you, or are you doing it for free?

>All Russia has to do is take the donbass and they won
Why do you think it'd end there?

So white people have colonised nigger.
Russians have colonised Lithuania for total of 200 years. What does this mean? Lithuania is bellow white nigger?

>Russia is losing based on western media
>A man can be a woman based on western media
I think you're the one dilating.

Again you are saying nothing. Let's say I was Russian you are still not dealing with the substance of my argument.

This is a typically childish assessment of American military adventurism. The US fought three major wars in recent decades (Iraq twice, Afghanistan) and from a military perspective, these wars were extremely successful. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan are small countries, and the US did not lose the wars, they lost the peace. There was no plan for "what now" after the sound and light show was over.
It's abundantly clear, especially in Iraq, that the US had spectacularly good intelligence about Iraqi military dispositions and infrastructure, and destroyed these in 48hrs with almost no losses. It's equally clear Russia totally failed in this regard. And bear in mind, this war is still in the initial phase. If Russia does defeat the Ukrainian military, it has the hard part up next: the asymmetrical phase.

You win wars by total destruction, not pussyfooting.
If entire cities were razed shit would have gotten too hot.

I don't see how it's "gone wrong". It could have gone better I suppose. I don't see how that much territory gained by Russian/pro-Russian forces is going wrong. Looks like they're lining up a series of encirclements in northern Donetsk. I suspect they have learned from Iraq that if you don't have the support of both the citizenry and enough of the military in a place you go into, it becomes a nightmare to hold, so instead they're letting anyone who wants to fight come fight them on open ground, while making slow gainz, and asking Ukraine for things that they expect the Ukraine won't give as their position strengthens. It could always go the other way for some reason, but I suspect this ends with a neutered Ukraine, some Ukrainian war criminals prosecuted (and some dead or fled), and Russia getting some amount of southeastern Ukraine ranging from everything between Moldova to Belgorod to basically what they've taken now.
Possibly depending on how quickly Ukraine capitulates (which is possibly looking like never, now). So maybe they'll get to a line from Moldova to Belarus and call it a day. But I suspect Zelinsky would make peace before that.

Nothing, you're just witnessing a dictatorship with government filled with yes-man and corruption going to war. It never had a chance to go any other way. All their resources have always been going into building an illusion of power instead of actually building a powerful army.

Sadly in the long run Russia is fulfilling it's objective
They now have a nice huge coastline connection to Crimea by land
Although right now their war machine is probably depleted right now, they'll probably go all the way to Transnistria eventually
Perhaps not until in a few years, once they've recovered, but they will eventually
As for the rest of Ukraine they probably won't want it. The coastlines of Ukraine is apparently the only thing worth a damn thing in the whole country and they will be the most irrelevant, cucked and poor shithole in Europe (more than they already were) once they're landlocked
They would become a drag on the EU and NATO if we took them in and after they cannot be used at all to spite Russia the chance is super small that we will still give them the time of day

That is the purpose of this operation at least the stated purpose. Anything else is just subjective shit. The US objective is to make Russia bleed and remove Putin so you are right even if Russia takes Donbass the ukrainians will have to die trying to retake it for years maybe.

This is literally Mission Accomplished all over again. Why should Ukraine accept peace just because Russia managed to take less ground than the held before the retreat from the north?

Nothing you have said in this entire thread has any substance. You are literally just making excuses for Putler and his failed invasion. You are so unwilling to face the truth of things that you have deluded yourself.

Yes, it is heavily opinionated, this guy is an Estonian Nazi. But I think it's correct that Russia has less of these military leaders than other major states.

Not necessarily true. If the land-lease program starts working quicker than orcs can mobilize enough troops to keep the offensive going, we may actually see Ukrainians retaking Crimea and forcing a peace deal. It's an optimistic scenario, but not impossible I think.

i dont really know why we're still talking about ukraine. the war has been over since march. russia lost it.
the real question we should ask is: how long would it take NATO to reach moscow? because a NATO retaliation is whats up next

where exactly?

You are playing games with me. This war has always been about the donbass. Ukraine was planning a offensive for that reason and Russia invaded for that reason. All the other shit is irrelevant. Does USA actually think Russia wanted to take Kiev and Kharkiv? Did Ukraine actually think Russia wanted to take Kieve and Kharkiv? You don't know and I don't know. And the kike media probably doesn't know.

No, that's Kadyrov

If any real confrontation happens, NATO will probably wipe the floor with russian army, but will not advance into their territory.

>the US did not lose the wars, they lost the peac
Latest lefty cope.
If you fight the war and do the occupation in a way that the military thing doesn't achieve the political thing doesn't achieve the social thing, then you lose.
I would go a step further though and give you 'coids credit in that you *successfully* did what you were actually there to do: Increase chaos and disfunction in the world to increase mil/int budgets and, in fairness, destroy any potential threats to the US power structure springing up, while protecting the state of Israel from all its enemies (foreign, and domestic).

>ancoom saying "retard"
Hello Azovite synthetic leftumanoid.

>This war has always been about the donbass.
Okay and why do you think it'd end there?

A bitte too optimistic russia would put anyone they have to defend crimea loosing it would be like loosing port arther back in the russo-chink war

>Ukrainians retaking Crimea
Dude, nobody in Crimea wants that. It's just unrealistic. When they took Crimea there was virtually zero resistance
Ukraine insisting in getting Crimea back as a condition to end this war is a retarded as American Republicans still being fixated on lost battles like abortion

>Russia sent it's best units to get slaughtered as a feint guys

Russia will never claim ANY obejectives that are tangible. Because if they do, they have to admit that they lost when they can't get those objectives.

I am making statements of fact of what is objective reality. You have made no arguments against other than trying to kill the messenger which is not based on any fact.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

WHAT A FUCKING PUSSY

The only Russia can lose if they don't take Donbass. The duration of the war is irrelevant. The end result is all that matters.

And this too. You think that Russia will just hand off Crimea?
HELL no. They view it as one of their most valuable territories and will declare war, mobilize the population and even nuke Kiev if needed be before giving it

>Tod D. Wolters:
>no primary education

>I am making statements of fact of what is objective reality.
Not true. You are huffing on copium because Russia has failed and is losing.

complete subjective garbage.

Putin didn't take Berlin on day 1, THEREFORE he lost. I don't care if they renamed Lviv "Putingrad". What does that have to do with anything? He tried to take Paris and failed. He didn't even successfully hold Washington. HE LOST

All there stated objectives are tangible. Russia has claimed their operation is a punitive operation since the beggining and they have followed those objectives.

It went ok so far, i think. Right or wrong is an ethically charged diatribe. They secured a water supply for the crimea from the dneper river, as well as a land connection to it. Basically a land gain of 3 oblasts.

im not certain. there are so many bureaucratic inefficiencies and state monopolized businesses that are engaged in anti competitive behavior in russia that taxpayers aren't happy about like that even with a bloated EU style system, average russians would be 200 dollars richer/month without even needing to do anything. i'd expect the russian army to defect within a month of fighting against NATO forces.

Lmfaoooooooo
What a literal retard

Again you are making emotional and subjective claims. You have not made one statement of fact.

You are a fucking clown. Western media has created a fantasy world where they create Russia's objectives for them. And you believe them.

What happened there was literally what's happening now in Kherson. russians sending Ukrainians deep into russia and moving russians in instead, then holding a fake referendum.

Not necessarily. They are lacking troops and have a lot of ground to cover. They would have to sacrifice their offensive to defend Crimea, which would also be good for Ukrainians. Ukrainians just need modern NATO equipment to be able to go on an effective and quick offensive without bleeding too much.

>and from a military perspective, these wars were extremely successful.
War/military is only a continuation of politics, mutt coper. If the war you started ended in political catastrophe (like it did) you can't just claim that it

russo-jap war*

Russia botched this entire "war" from the very start by being humanitarian and underestimating the hohols, thinking this operation will be a piece of cake.
Then they realized that nothing is gonna be daijobu and now they're stuck in the south, contemplating the next move and moment so that won't be as embarrassing.

>muh official objective
That shit changes on the whim of any loser to save face. If you take it at face value you fucked up.
See Bush declaring "mission accomplished" despite fucking losing.

>botched the entire war
by what objective? What you think is Russia's objectives is a western media creation.

>you can't just claim that it
was a military success.

NATO outtechs Russia by 50+ years.
With 8 years of NATO training as well as NATO equipment and intel, a corrupt post-Soviet army can more than triple its effectiveness.

Well, we never defined what a win was. That was part of the problem. The only real way to win was to killevery single military age male, claim all the women and all the property. Like every war prior to the second world War. Americans broke war. They don't have the stomach to do what it takes to hold onto a victory.

>Latest lefty cope.
How is that a lefty cope? The US totally annihilated the Iraqi army and the Taliban forces with barely any loss. At that point, the US military was tasked with essentially a policing role with no clear objective. Iraq and Afghanistan were political, not military, failures. I'm really sorry you can't understand the obviousness of this and have to go around the houses to be wilfully ignorant.

ANHAHAHAHAHHAHA

WHAT A FUCKING CUCC HOLY SHIT

The only scenario I can imagine is NATO forcing a government change. I doubt anyone would risk russia doing something stupid when it starts losing its own territory.

All the same maybe a diffrent shade of yellow

Jews happened. They knew that a quick war, disregard the victor, is the only way to minimize casualties.

But now they artificially prolong the war by pushing Russians and Ukrainians to fight until both countries have thousands of dead whites.

It's Russia versus basically the entire world.

But it hasn't. Russia's official objective has been the same since the beggining the only thing that has changed is the fabricated western made Russian objectives.

The same shit bot threads over and over again.

Nothing. Donbas is well on its way to being Russian.

>Well, we never defined what a win was.
Sure you did, mutt retard, it was creating a loyal puppet state.

You are a sad and pathetic person. I truly how that you wake up from your brain washing and manage to find peace at some point. Putler diddled your tiny peanut brain.

That is all you have you fucking shill. Is insults you can't engage with substance.

Nah it’s bs, red army high command was superior to the wehrmacht unironically. The problem Russia has and it has had it for a very very very long time is inflexibility on the lower echelons, caused by lack of initiative, autonomy, goof officers and just how dogshit they are at cultivating NCO’s. The fact that it’s still a problem makes me believe they will never solve this.

honestly I'd say they underestimated the reaction of the west, expected it to go like Georgia and Crimea on the political front, on the war front, they underestimated how much military intelligence the west would be sharing (all of it). It's hard to attack when your enemies knows all your moves, that being said Ukraine is in full volkstruum and Russia has not mobilized yet so it's hardly over, Russia will win if it's willing to go all the way, but they might just take donbass and try to peace out

Then make a good thread retard

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Yeah, and now Afghanistan is run by Talichads and Iraq is run by Iran. I mean, you succeeded in creating more damage and chaos in the world so that you can sit safely above the flames, no doubt. Unfortunate that so many millions died to keep you employed.

>goof
good*

Nobody is brain washing me faggot. I am judging Russian objectives like I would judge any other nations.

>the entire world.
No, against NATO and its east asian vassals. The rest of the world is neutral, even drifting towards the Russian/Chinese axis.