Do pro-russians beleive russian propaganda completely or are doubts forming?

I like to believe there is some rationality in all humans, simply beleiving your enemy or person you disagree with has no rationality just leaves you bitter.
I've tried to have actual conversations in both ukraine-generals but it always becomes
>YOU ARE COMMIE VATNIK
and
>YOU ARE CIA GLOBOHOMO TRANNY
I think the russians have some points in this war, america shouldn't be messing around so much on the border of another nation.
But on the other side russians ALSO mess around on borders all the time, they just flew jets into our airspace for example.
But when THEY do it it's "russia acting on russian territory!".
I'm definitivly not for this invasion but any attempts at a dicussion and trying to at least SEE both sides make people see you as a centrist
I remember clearly at the start how they were talking about demilitraization, changing governments ETC.
If you look at troop movements and analyze what their objectives were it falls in line with this as well.
If all they wanted was donbas there are a million ways they could have pulled that off better than this
don't engage with memeflags, what happened to this? Seems people have completely forgotten the old inofficial rules of this board

also soviets didn't want to take all of Finland
That's why they made finnish government in exile at the start of the war

It absolutely was an objective.
To me it seems that their initial goals were as stated demilitarization and a change of government then as things got harder and harder they seemed more to focus on the north as a levarage in negotiations than a proper front judging by how shitty the supply lines were and are up there.
Now they seem to be completely focusing on the south, east of Kherson.
My guess is they're trying to get as much russian speaking land as possible then freeze the conflict returning the conflict to 2018 level but with russsia controlling more ground.

That's just what Any Forums is, and frankly is the proper reaction to Russian disinfo. The usual Russian media MO is to flood you with tons of impudent bullshit, the kind where you deny that the sky is blue. As wrong as it sounds, the correct approach is to shut these channels down completely, trying to be reasonable or centrist will just get you shouted down.

The idea of the assault on Kiev halting is because it's a diversion to hold up Ukrainian forces there instead of being in the eastern front really falls apart if the Russians are now falling back from Kiev.
I'm too cautious to believe the optimistic news of how utterly incompetent the Russian forces are. Last thing we need is an external threat from Russia while being busy with our internal threats.

It makes the most sense desu, they know the strongest/most experienced fighters are in mariupol thes is pretty evident by the fact the regions is still Ukie control.
So how do russia stop reinforcements to this area? by going for the capital.

>Do pro-russians beleive russian propaganda completely or are doubts forming?
>links hohol propaganda

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I'd wager Kiev was always just about putting pressure on the government and dividing Ukraine's forces by drawing them away from the east, we've seen BIG military pushes everywhere else in the country, but virtually nothing into Kiev, they took out a few key objectives within the city, captured a few airfields around it, but have never to the best of my knowledge made any concerted effort to push into the city itself and have mostly left it alone despite the fact that they could easily level a path into the city with artillery, missile and air strikes etc America style.

>changes the subject

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Do you have any proofs for that ?

I believe we wanted to make all of Ukraine our bitch, but failed and now trying to cope hard

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