Abortion is fucked. Why is this legal?

Be consistent. Does life begin at insemination, or not?

>muh satan
This is where I stop caring what you have to say

So you would keep tape and incest babies?

>killing something unconscious is somehow worse than killing something conscious
there is literally nothing wrong with taking the life of something without self awareness. This is why we feel bad when dogs die but don't feel bad when bugs die. Embryos in the first trimester do not have consciousness, so their deaths are no different than pulling the plug on your braindead grandpa in a coma.

Yes

Plan b doesn't kill the new human being if the sperm reaches the egg before

cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/ss/ss6811a1.htm

The data seems to include only abortions performed at abortion clinics.

Yep
First generation incest babies aren't that fucked, you need to keep on doing them to have the funky ones

what about someone in a coma who has a good chance of recovering?

we need it to cull the undesirables.

The people aborting their babies should not have babies to begin with. Win/win. Society has too many retards anyways.

It’s a fuck up It’ll get you in massive trouble for the rest of your life, it’s not about the babies health

Here is my philosophy on abortion.

1. Life begins at conception.
2. A baby, from conception onwards, in its mother is a person dependent entirely on its mother for survival.
3. The baby's existence in the womb exacts a significant toll on the mother's body, mind, and health, leading to major physiological and psychological changes.
4. A person has the right to reject major changes/damage to their bodies, even if it means harming someone else.
5. The mother, a person, has the right to abort the baby. It would be very nice of her to not do so, but she has the right to make that choice.

I base my thinking in this philosophical essay:
jstor.org/stable/2265091?origin=JSTOR-pdf

People who recover from comas have noticeable brain activities while in their comas, brain activity that embryos in their first trimester lack. The scientific literature is fairly consistent about embryonic consciousness starting between the 10 to 12 week mark. This is also within the window that most women have abortions, and also the window that is legal for most civilized countries in the world.

>there is literally nothing wrong with taking the life of someone without self awareness
i disagree
>This is why we feel bad when dogs die but don't feel bad when bugs die
feelings are wholly irrelevant when it comes to moral truths.
>Embryos in the first trimester do not have consciousness
irrelevant, they are distinct living innocent human beings who will develop consciousness if not murdered

The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he does not exist.
Rape aside for the moment, isn’t the argument for aborting incest babies purely eugenic? If so, then why is that the only eugenic policy that gets a pass?

people in comas won't feel pain though if you kill them in certain ways

>Life begins at conception
Between one third and one half of all fertilized embryos fail to implant. Do you consider this to be a silent holocaust?

> babies are less conscious than adults, less conscious than octopuses until they are 4, they should be treated like octopuses

So I can kill you as long as you are asleep, got it.
>inb4 but I’ll wake up later!
And the child in the womb will be conscious later, just wait 9 months.

>le rape
Why are women so obsessed with rape? You're all a bunch of perverted masochists

People die at various points in their lives, and apparently one half do so soon after it begins.

she presumably chose to have sex knowing the risks of pregnancy, that's like saying someone can volunteer to donate a heart to someone whose is failing and after they've cut out the victims heart and are about to cut open the volunteer to donate his heart he changes his mind and the victim dies

idk but It isn’t for me

>that's like saying someone can volunteer to donate a heart to someone whose is failing and after they've cut out the victims heart and are about to cut open the volunteer to donate his heart he changes his mind and the victim dies
Yes, I think that is fair too.

THE SCIENCE! THE LITERATURE! THE EXPERTS! Pull unborn children apart in the womb (which you'll never have) with serrated forceps!

Prove to me why personhood doesn't start before conception, then. Does wearing a condom count as murdering your future child, since you never let them be concieved in the first place?

People who are alive can be killed without causing pain. Pain doesn't matter, only consciousness.

No they don't.

1: agree
2: agree
3: some biological changes during pregnancy are positive. the child and mother's relationship is mutual symbiosis rather than parasitic by any biological definition. its mere existence is raising the mother's darwinian fitness level.
4/5: disagree, this is presupposing some sort of autonomy (self law) that overrides natural or divine law

Oh boy I can't wait to enjoy life
Sike

No, because I have consciousness and brain activity in my sleep. I toss and turn and perform movements. Sensations cause physical responses. These things are not true of braindead people in comas, or of embryos in the first trimester.

Women unironically give zero shit about getting raped they use it as a chance for attention

>Prove to me why personhood doesn't start before conception
the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, 2 gametes meet = distinct human life

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> rejecting the responsabilities of motherhood out of "freedom"
You should be put to death

The whole is absolutely not greater than the sum of its parts, the sperm and the egg contain both equal halves of the human being. If you prevent them from meeting, that kills them just as surely as if you use a Plan B pill.

Also, distinct DNA does not a person make. A set of identical twins do not need to share personhood.

Like I said, I think women who carry their children and give birth should be praised, they have done a very good deed by creating/saving someone's life. But it's not fair to ask someone to undergo that.

Look at it this way. Say you'd be hooked to a person for 9 months, with them using your blood, your systems, etc. Afterwards they'd be healthy and you two would be separated. It'd be a noble thing to allow them to use your body that way. But it's not fair to deny people the choice of refusing the use of their bodies that way.

>the sperm and the egg contain both equal halves of the human being.
think about it

>Thou shalt not kill. Well, unless you and a bunch of other ignorant idiots vote for someone to be killed, then it's totes cool breh

Don’t want to have a baby? Then don’t have sex.

>Thou shalt not kill.
this prescription is about murder (unjust killing of innocent people, like abortion), a few sentences later it instructs those under the mosaic covenant to kill certain people.
the author didn't make a woopsie.

well yeah, then it isn't murder because it's sanctioned by the state

Moral inversion

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>Don’t want to have a baby? Then don’t have sex.
>got raped? too bad!

>taking shit out of context
>believing christianity is a hippie religion of muh peace and has not been subverted to destroy its nations
There are depictions of murder in the bible, not all are bad. Are you a leftist? Serious question

I agree that's the best option. But once that bridge is crossed, I think my thinking is valid.

Stop dressing like a prostitute

Why are women sad after having a baby if its so morally good?

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thank you for admitting all you want to do is control women and not actually defend morality

all murder is bad by definition, if it's not bad it's not murder

That's one of my morals

i want to do both

>"christians" immediately try to find loopholes and workarounds so they can keep being hypocrites
sounds about right
how's the eruv holding up?

i don't know what an eruv is and pointing out the immediate context of a verse isn't a loophole.
God commanded capital punishment and some war. the hebrew word used in Exodus 20:13 specifies murder, not just killing. the israelites were to execute murderers and others under the mosaic law. however, He prohibited taking a human life without divine authorization.

Attached: exodus 20-13.png (693x527, 21.42K)

My best friend, my brother, is a product of rape.
I wouldn't be half the man I am today without him.
I will never support blatant, painful, mutilation, of a being that had no say in the events up to its inception.
Especially just because you want le coom pleasure, instead of having sex for its intended reason, and treating it like the dangerous primal force that it is.
Doctors still act like babies dont even feel pain when out of the womb. (Circumcision)
Might as well bash the baby against the wall when their fully born, so its not as painful as being torn limb from limb in the womb.
If my wife was raped id still keep the baby and raise it as my own, amongst my children.
Like literally everyone did for most of history
>See. Genghis Khan
If you support abortion you deserve the death sentence.
Simple as

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>I will never support blatant, painful, mutilation, of a being
Yet you eat meat

You are actually evil. Enjoy the pitchfork up your ass for eternity in hell

> Meat
Not a human being

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Only cucks would raise a child that isn’t theirs. You’re all completely cucked

Who the fuck abort at 23 week?

even though it looks gruesome (handling cadavers also looks gruesome), fetuses at that stage still haven't fully developed nociception and most legislations still require that the fetus is administered anesthetics (which many medical professionals argue against).
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/

>Why is this legal?
It is legal because the economy is amoral. Human life has no intrinsic value other than as a tool for families and governments to derive profit, entertainment, labour and tax revenue from. Nigger babies aren't profitable, so they are aborted. I'm not sure why you're complaining, one less nigger baby means one less nigger mouth to feed on Social Security. Unless you propose niggers have value in and of themselves.

It's amazing how different religious views can quite drastically change the entire argument yet no one ever brings it up. If reincarnation is real, and the soul is present at such an early stage, then it is clearly murder. And especially gruesome if you are denying a soul his right to choose his own mother. If Christianity is real, then you are denying a soul his one and only chance to experience life on this Earth. Barbaric.

If atheism is correct, then abortion is perhaps one of the cruelest acts of callousness you can possibly commit. It doesn't even matter however you arbitrarily choose to define "alive," since you are extinguishing the very possibility that someone's only life could ever take place. Horrid stuff. Baby-killing easily warrants the death penalty.

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>don’t worry they are murdered gently

Salivating retards like you really need to open a dictionary and read the definition of "murder".

A fetus that got aborted never was going to have much of a life anyways. Besides, the type of degenerates that have abortions are generally promiscuous, poor, blacks or diseased. Children nowadays grow up to be fuckmeat for pedophiles like Epstein, cheap labour for an economy that doesn't give a shit, cult members or "anti-work". To be consistent, we would even support the legalization of infanticide. The ancient Greeks had the right idea about babies' lives.

>P1: Destroying families is good. (everywhere family is the necessary condition for suffering that outways joy. In Africa, families of niggers starve, in America families are exposed to globohomo, in Europe families are exposed to Muslims and families always run a risk of dying painfully in a nuclear war after having developed together. Families are the first target of revolutionary mobs. Therefore, for their own good, put all families out of their misery.)
>P2: Abortion destroys families. (By destroying the basic beginning unit of family, the child, the family has no unit on which to grow.)
>C: Abortion is good.

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People make it legal because they're dogs unable to imagine sex without penetration, which is the mentality responsible for abortion and aids. It's also legal because people forget adoption is a thing. It's also legal because people think all female rape victims would want to kill the fetus, which is false.

you're all like:
>NOOOOOOO DONT KILL THE HECKING BABYRERINOS THATS HECKING WRONG
but if a time traveler doctor showed up and told me he can go back in time and make sure i am aborted and then my present self would instantly disappear i would 100% tell him to do it
my point is, stop telling people when they can and cant die.
if the baby is guaranteed to have a shit awful life i say abortion is a mercy

Stop blaming fate for your own failures.

you've never talked to a woman have you?
no one said this retarded christnigger

>Personal responsibility is good.
>Life is personal responsibility.
>Life is good.

Except "personal responsibility" isn't good. It's a made in turn to perpetuate the lie of the American dream. Physically, only a limited amount of people can ever "make it." A person is not their own island and they are determined by the other people. They are then expected to be subject to the determination by others, yet if these determining factors lead to their failure, the individual is accountable and the other are freed from blame, their hands washed of responsibility as well. So "personal responsibility" is the negation of cause and effect that individuals like previous user have to suffer on their own, a lie. So "Personal responsibility is good" is false.

Furthermore, life isn't personal responsibility. People are brought into life never because of their intrinsic worth, Kant's 'end in themself', but because of the selfish desires of their family to feel less lonely, to have more labour, for politics or for religion. The baby grows up into a child, into a teenager and is suddenly an adult, rather than having been taught to be an adult from the beginning, having their innocence destroyed when they are born and being told truly what their life is about. Life is Dasein and the intangible spook of "personal responsibility" is thrust upon a piece of sperm and egg. And for those born into wealthy and powerful families with a silver spoon, there is no personal responsibility at all. They can rape and kill who they like and they hire a lawyer to get away with it.

And so your implicit argument doesn't follow. Your argument is unsound.

The real fall in Genesis wasn't the Fall of Man, it was the Fall of Dust, the Dust which was perfect as it was and was contorted into something else for no particular reason.

> A selfish family's means to an end has no intrinsic value.
> Individual life is a selfish family's means to an end.
> Individual life has no intrinsic value.

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As an adult who has gone through mental, physical and sexual abuse partially due to my parents neglecting me, abortion should be legal so the child does not have to suffer in poverty, drug addict parents and the like.

Why don’t we just kill the poor? Then no children would suffer in poverty.

>free will doesn't exist
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Instead of advocating preventing evil and effectively combatting it, you advocate doing further evil.

>Genghis Khan sure was a cuck
Its almost like youre a vain, sexual, retard that feels insecure about being useless on all levels so you have to kill YOUR wifes baby.
You married her for a reason, its of their blood.
Fate is cruel, but the child will be humbled that although they were created by sin, they see the good in the world because that sin doesn't define them or how theyre treated, as you will demonstrate through fatherly love.
Family doesn't always mean blood. You are family with whoever you deem it so.

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user, what do you think abortion is? There aren’t mad scientists running around implanting embryos into unsuspecting women, every abortion is a woman having her own child killed.

do you actually believe that the vast majority of pregnancies that lead to abortion are from rape, or are you just acting like a gorilla nigger intentionally? and no, going to a bar and drinking yourself black-out drunk and going home with a complete stranger doesn't count as rape

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"...the unborn, though enclosed in the womb of his mother, is already a human being, and it is an almost monstrous crime to rob it of life which it has not yet begun to enjoy. If it seems more horrible to kill a man in his own house than in a field, because a man's house is his most secure place of refuge, it ought surely to be deemed more atrocious to destroy the unborn in the womb before it has come to light."

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afterabortion.org/abortion-doesnt-help-rape-victims-say-women-whove-been-there/

yea bunch of potential buddies of us have been slaughtered because of unsafe sex, geez

It's been a common practice for thousands of years so it's not that bizarre
People used to leave babies out in the cold to die too

No one asked whether it's bizarre or ancient.

people also used to murder and run at eachother with a spear in hand for fun and then we developed morality

>Whatever helps you sleep at night.

> That you are politically free to do what you want means 'free will'.
> Compatibilism means that you are politically free to do what you want.
> Compatibilism means 'free will'.

However, people aren't politically free to do what they want. People are born into a world with pre-existing social and economic laws which they had no authority to change whatsoever. So they are also determined by them. The second premise is false. It doesn't follow that compatibilism means free will in any sense.

And we aren't really politically free to do what you want either, due to cancel culture and the liberal media. We're stuck between a rock and another rock. First premise false.

Compatibilism doesn't mean free will at all.

It's the same with hard incompatibilism. Free will is theological rubbish that admits to no causal explanation. It's a political justification for familialist nihilism. Better not to have lived at all with no agency.

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>Compatibilism doesn't mean free will at all.
Yes it does. Limited free will is still free will.

>Limited free will is still free will.

>Autonomy is still free will.
>Limited free will is autonomy.
>Limited free will is still free will.

Autonomy is an incoherent category. "Self-law" - Only in innatism can laws be suggested to come from the self and that is negated too and there is no affirmation of innatism outside of ancient Greek idealism. Laws are formulated on things outside the self, on the ground. Even the categorical imperative of Kant is based on relating thinking about events on the ground universalized. So it is dependent on others. "Self-law (where law comes from others)". Because autonomy is based on a hermit's sophistry, based on affirming the self ironically through others, reducible to a sterile categorical imperative, "autonomy" properly speaking is an oxymoron!

So "limited free will is still free will" is like saying infinitesimal is still infinity.

All children are better off dead rather than being the toys of their parents, of bankers, of grifters and war-profiteers. There is only tragedy at the sight of a daycare, it might as well be bombed and every kid killed.

Abortion and contraception is the only way to escape the cycle. The Garden of Eden was better off without men.

Nigger.

based mods moving this thread

dear Any Forums, fuck off. love /his/