USA -> EU geopolitics

It send millions of immigrants around and sends the signal that Russia>EU.

Because Russians and Chinese can only see the world with their limited master and client point of view. Of course you are going project it on other states so for a Chinese Europe, Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc. are all vassals of the dirty USA.

If you want to see unfiltered shizo talk then you should check the sinodefenceforum.

Referring to the European states as vassals to the United States is misleading though, probably because of ignorance about what a fucking economical powerhouse the EU actually is.

The EU and the US have for the most part mutually aligned interest though. There are differences though. For instance EU is a lot more aggressive against big companies such as Microsoft, google, etc, while the US is a lot more pro intervention.

Ukraine is in Europe and thus Russia invaded an European nation, making it clear that using military force to get what he wants is not out of the question. Russia has to be stopped now or it will continue to threaten European security

We'd be getting millions of refugees (more), lose ukraine as an economic partner, suffer internal disorder because the eastern EU would rightfully be pissed, suffer loss of face because we could not prevent such a terrible injustice right at our borders, face a russian army far less weakened, possibly not even unmasked for how shitty it is, therefore overspend on the military in the aftermath.

You are stupid if you think this war does not benefit eu. Refugees are human capital. EU was perceived as internally disorganized before conflict. Stop to russian propaganda and influence is huge booster. Hybrid war is over.

We're getting the benefit of increased cooperation whether ukraine wins or loses.
>Refugees are human capital.
So are ukrainians in EU-aligned ukraine.

Russia sells petroleum to Europe. Ukraine has petroleum. If Ukraine were to sell said petroleum to Europe, Russia would lose their bargaining chip (turning the faucet off). This is both why EU would benefit from a west-looking Ukraine and why Russia invaded in the first place

What are their aligned interests?

It's mostly natural gas not petroleum. But yeah, you're correct. Behind any war there's always a fight for the control of key resources, the propaganda comes later.

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France saw/sees the UK as a threat to its pride. An EU without the UK France could pretend it didn't have to be a refugee in England for 5 years. France is retarded.

>So are ukrainians in EU-aligned ukraine.
Yes, but EU is aging and they've realized importing Muslims is dumb. Ukrainian refugees are a superior low-end labor source.

As I said, ukrainians in ukraine work all the same, and they can immigrate all the same. No need for them to be forced here by russians. If anything, full on russian victory would probably overload us with refugees. There are 40 million ukrainians, 440 million EU citizens - you try and generate 10% extra housing capacity over night.

Not all 40 mil people are coming. Extra housing means also more efficient way of using existing one and markets with housing will adapt. I get your point, short term it is problem. Ukraine would not get into EU without conflict and business is different within EU. Worker in Ukraine is also not same as in Europe because of efficiency.

>What are the mechanisms that make this happen?
Being organized over several EU countries + defacto bribery and threats and even political elimination by censorship and deplatforming. .

>Never, ever, EVER in the history of the world has Russia endangered Europe. EVER!
>America arises: "we're gonna protect you form now on".
Yes, it's mafia.

Trade, access to goods and markets, access to international decision centers....

Soft power, you do things for then not because you are scared, because you are getting something in return.

Mix of these two. The EU's economy easily rivals that of the US. After WW2 the US assumed lots of military responsibility and Europe was generally happy to mooch off that. The EU is not a single entity however. One reason that it's military does not take care of itself or rival the US's is because Europe is still Europe: a medly of rival Celtic and Germanic tribes. They all do whatever the fuck they want to do. Only retards say they're US "vassals".

The US is powerful and does have many tools to influence policy abroad. Carrot/stick dynamics are the mainstay. We offer loans, weapons deals, "aid", and economic deals; we threaten to withdraw these alternatively if we want something. We offer military protection and support for some allies, like Poland during this Russian/Ukraine war which saw a deployment of a few thousand Americans mostly for peace of mind--though there is an element of chicken playing as well, such that attacking Poland will also be attacking the US troops stationed there.

And lastly regular old diplomacy. Sometimes the US just asks for shit and EU countries oblige or ask for shit in exchange. It's a mutual relationship. They're nobody's vassals, but rather allies with the rest of the "West"--which constitutes Europe and its former colonies. The West shares key ideological beliefs and cultural norms which make cooperation obviously a thing: all Western countries share democratic beliefs, they all believe in a sort of mystical "specialness" to human life, they ostensibly believe in equality between all these special little humans, believe in property ownership and capitalist economics. Basically 17th-19th century Enlightenment beliefs. This stands in contrast to for example tribal forms of government, inherited power, communism or collectivism, might-makes-right, divine authority, whatever--every other type of value or belief system out there. Shared semantics and worldview unite the West as much as politics and power.

Oh, in my language petroleum is used as an umbrella term for all types of crude oil and natural gas.
Remember: Russia din du nuffin! Especially not invade first Poland and later half of the continent. The Americans unironically saved Europe and it's values

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Problem is most of it is in the east so they currently occupy it, but it's to see in the future

So the us controls the sea and allows free trade for countries so that they get richer, in exchange for that they support his decisions/not brake the usa balls, otherwise the us and the ones that benefit from this system will get mad at you and fuck you over in various ways (liberal international order)

Europe depends on US for security and peace, not because US is evil but because Europe lacks the unity needed. US provides the unity and the neutral (free from historical grieviences) backbone. Russia is an threat to Europe, because US provides a security backbone for Europe. Russia is a country that seeks to restore its old empire and exert influence over other European countries, but it cant because US protects them.

a thread called geopolitics doesn't go on the pol board it goes on the weapons board.

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Why is Russia a threat, kind retarded question but I'd like to know more in detail

Europeans aren't our vassals just our junior partners. We are the strongest and richest nation of the west and as such we are in charge sorta but only in the first among equals kinda way. Americans don't order Europeans around so much as suggest things that would be in their best interest. If they don't listen we aren't going to attack them or anything just help a more understanding European more.

Pol isnt that good of a board while people interested in weapons, military, conflicts and defense are more likely to talk about geopolitics in an interesting manner.

Pol can do that too but its polluted by jew posters and shit plus they have too many posts so you're on page 10 after 1 second

What happens if Europe gets a better military and gets kinda unified

>literal thread on geopolitics
>it’s still up
This fucking board I swear

Read the next sentence

>For instance EU is a lot more aggressive against big companies such as Microsoft, google, etc, while the US is a lot more pro intervention.
This is also because those companies are American, rather than European. For a variety of reasons I don't really understand, all of the major software companies world are American, to the point where Yuros who want to do high level software shit tend to move to the United States. European moves against tech companies can be read in two ways, with actual different values (privacy, the right to be forgotten) and simple protectionism (they're not going to let a bunch of West Coast Yuppies profit at the expense of European States) and both readings are true to an extent.
>Europe depends on US for security and peace, not because US is evil but because Europe lacks the unity needed.
That's a good point, really. It's like using English as the lingua franca. Equally offensive to everyone.

Thats what the US wants, but European unity is a hard thing. Even during this war, western European countries do not think the same way as eastern European countries do.

Poland/Lithiuania/Estonia/Ukraine are calling for more military support. While the western European are pulling the brakes.

US is there as a baseline for unity.

Indeed they are. US orchestrated the whole Ukraine thing, raised them as anti-Russian state and did everything in their power to provoke Putin to attack them. Securing their rule over EU once more, and getting new billion military and energy contracts, all at the expense of EU taxpayers of course.
Always look at the one who is getting the most out of it.
>b-but muh security against the ebil Russians
EU had their own security pact as well, even more strict than the NATOs article 5, and Putin was not against it. But US were adamant with pushing their new puppet into NATO, the only military block that proclaims Russia as their main enemy.

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Russia has not abandoned its imperial past. West has largely abandoned it (pockets here/there) and moved on to a liberalized democratic rule. Russia still suffers from the long days of imperialism. Had Putin not been in power, Russian liberalization would have happened. Instead, Putin has dragged Russia back to its past. Russia borders China and shares part of its geopolitics with China, so naturally its tied to Chinas's politics a result. China is an old imperial power in sheep's clothing. Make no mistake, China today is not a liberalized democracy. Its a totalitarian government in its fullest form. So there's a pull there as well.

>yuros want to join Nato to prevent them from getting invaded by Russia
>Russia invades them to prevent them from joining nato
>I-it's america's fault you guise!
inb4 muh spheres of influence

Ok buddy you go tell frogs or poles what to do and see what happens.

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>Pol has too many posts, the moment I post I'm on page 10, plus even tough it's not strictly weapons I think it's a good thing to talk about geopolitics too here
Have you heard of this little know board, probably missed it because it is so small, it's called FUCKING Any Forums

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>join another military alliance
>suddenly a safety
>NOOO THIS ONE IS NOT MADE AND RULED BY US, DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT
Yeah, mutthink at its finest.

That's also because they're not unified I think so everyone has their own interests, each to their own, even tho they are tied toghter in some way.

If they REALLY became one single geopolitcal entity then they would actually care because they're the same state, the fact is that they could still secretly protect less so care for themselves even while in a single entity, they have to really believe in it, for example if one region of Italy gets assaulted the whole Italy reacts, they dont say I dont care it's another country, but the same doesnt not happen for European states, also becasue theyre not the same entity.

Anyway aside from geopolitics, even tho it would be good if Europe got strong, since I'm part of it, I still dont like alot of things of how it is structured, especially Italy where I live, so yes it would be stronger but it's still a country that I dont really feel much emotion for, if not negative emotions.
Still its 1st world and better than most other countries, but in the way 1st world liberal etc countries can be structured that's one of the worst ways, even in its soul, meaning the values it represents, implies, and stands for.

So Russia sees the world in a different way from the west, so to the west invading a country for defense etc like Russia doesnt make sense while for Russia yes (at least for the npc civilians, because I think people in the defense part of the western governments actually think about those things, is just that policies follow a different path)

United States of Europe needs to happen but it may not happen due to difference in language, customs, history, culture. Although Americanization of the Europe is helping a lot in creating a baseline culture that everyone can be comfortable with.

The Europeans rejecting American culture are ironically fueling the division within Europe.

>EU had their own security pact as well
as much as I'd like it to be true... it's not, the EU assure assistance in case of invasion but not direct military involvement
>and Putin was not against it
Putin was very much against Ukraine joining the EU

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Americanization of Europe is shit because Europe only gets the worst from the us, LGBTQ stuff, retarded political trends on Instagram, eating fast food, the evil rich and inequality.
And 0 economic freedoms, less bureaucracy, more ease of doing business, gun ownership, military culture, culture of entrepreneurship and independence, people here actually are hostile to those things (I speak most for Italy tho bc I live here)

Gonna let you in a little secret. Europeans like to claim they have no agency to absolve themselves of the consequences of their own actions. It's especially apparent when talking to Germans about the state of their military. The truth is, Europe is more powerful than it seems at first glance and is very involved around the world, including in the US

Putin denies Ukraine's existence. So he would deny it joining any alliance. Putin also denies Baltic nations' right to exist as well. So the next on the chopping block is obvious.

Rich people making money. Draining resources from third world countries.

Communism is great, am i rite?

>the EU assure assistance in case of invasion but not direct military involvement
Which is actually even more than NATO article 5 promises.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Czechoslovak_coup_d'état
Russkies started the Cold War

I mean we can make economic threats, cut military aid or breaking a defensive alliance or some similar shit. At the end of the day our ties to Europe are mutually beneficial. So the Euros have never had an issue with telling us to go fuck ourselves whether its Germany or France or Greece, etc. I think the people accusing vassal relationships are countries (and their supporters) like Russia(formerly the USSR), China, Iran, etc. That historically only had vassal relationships. I mean look at the Warsaw Pact or the current version, Russia just roles troops into other "allies" if it doesnt like what is happening or its puppet ruler is threatened. The CCCP is similar with its neighbors and before the Opium wars the legation quarter of Imperial Beijing only hosted tributary missions. The Iranians literally control militias in the middle east that often act independently of their own governments and carrying out Tehran's orders.

>LGBTQ
Stopped reading there. You tards were on board with that shit before we were

Not having their countries invaded by Chinks and gopniks

EU and US aren't enemies as so many people are desperate to make it seem that way.
Both geopolitical entities are merely "rivals" with a long-standing sentiment of non hostility to one another.

I don't understand the sentiment that Federalization of Europe would mean the end of NATO. Allowing the US to focus on their power projection over the Pacific while at the same time building common-european power projection over Africa, Middle East and West Asia is in the interests of both parties, further empowering NATO rather than making it weaker.

Russia-Ukraine conflict made that obvious. The threat that 2 months ago existed only on paper suddenly got real. And Europeans collectively decided to start arming up. And American administration opened up the champagne bottles, because that's exactly what they wanted to see for the last 20 years.
Would that happen if Americans regarded Europe in terms of vassal-hegemon relationship? Fuck no.
Both geopolitical entities (US/Canada and EU) have mutually aligned interests.
And those interests are ruling the world as has been the case for the last millenium regardless of how comically villanous that may sound.

>Which is actually even more than NATO article 5 promises.
it's not tho...?

source : nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm

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Why did you post this twice but worded slightly differently?

This thread was perfectly suited for /k/ even it is against the rules. Geopolitics are a deciding factor in military interventions, and we are discussing geopolitics from an military PoV. Any Forums is mostly a chatroom for people from different countries rather than a place for political discussion. In fact Any Forums literally banned talking about politics too. The difference is that military discussion will inherently be somewhat political unless you're purely discussing mechanical functions and employment tactics of weapons systems. All military action is a political at the end of the day.

What's Europe involvement around the world?
I know of France but the others?
Ok but even if you leave that what I said is still true

Because it tought I closed the posting window and had to rewrite it then I realized it didn't happen

>The threat that 2 months ago existed only on paper
Retard. The threat existed for hundred years. The brief pause after the fall of Soviet was a pause and nothing more. Its now resumed its normal function. An existential threat to Europe.

Oh yeah, when did Ukraine try to join CTSO again? Kek dumbass

What if Russia and Europe were "friends" and got in the same organization/entity

friends dont invade one nother
friends trust one another

Yeah I distinctly remember growing up (80s and 90s) that being a femboy or gay or metrosexual or whatever the name was that week was always chalked up as “oh he’s European”

>EU aren't American vassals
Is that why they are sanctioning Russia for us? America barely traded with Russia when we weren't trying to shame Putin but Europe is actually harmed by shunning Russian imports/exports (ignoring energy obviously). No doubt the bums in Brussels think the economic pain (and piles of dead) are worth it to get the Iran nuclear deal back, just like their Washington masters do.

It's not actually. You're just seeing stuff you don't like on the internet and looking for someone to blame. Europeans have plenty of retarded political trends and would post them to social media regardless of whether Americans were, fast food is just a modern convince, and blaming Americans for Europeans having quasi-marxist beliefs and hating the wealthy is just lol. Your own people would have these attitudes with or without us. You're just attempting to absolve your country of responsibility by pretending it has no agency

>cant have atf threads
>can have geopolitics threads
shoo shoo back to Any Forums not our fault its too fast

>Communism bad. Therefor globalism good.

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Talking about gun prohibition isn't pro-government like discussing the elite's pro-war propaganda is, thus the later is promoted while the former is banned.

It's nothing more than burger cope. Germans or French ignored what USA said so many times. Germans were still going for Nord Stream despite years of US telling them to stop.

What do you think Germany was trying to do

But also deterring Russia from expanding given its aggressive behaviour and its suspected goal of "remaking the empire" is useful for Europe, it's just a soft way of doing it because they dont want to get into a conflict, idk if bc they dont feel ready, they dont want to expand their military resources on that bc itd be costly, it's not politically profitable for a politician to do bc otherwise they wouldn't be reelected.
Plus the us doesn't want to be tied down in Europe bc it needs its forces to deter China.

No no absolutely not, I think my country is retarded for various reasons, included some of those communist shit that is at home in Italy, look at what the most popular parties where until 30 years ago (communist, socialist, social democrat), what I say is that on top of that I see alot of young people parroting those things that they see on the internet and they come from the us mostly

What happened then?

The invasion of Ukraine?

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So your reason for blaming us for everything is kids parroting shit they saw on the internet? That's what all of the European whining on 4chinz is about, isn't it? You people are even more pathetic than I thought

are you german?

A few years ago I lived with a rotating cast of Europeans in a house in Tokyo (long story short: we all worked at the same bar). I was the only American. I lived with them long enough to know them fairly deeply. And it was truly startling to see first-hand the degree with which Europeans (or at least European 20-somethings) are synced into American-driven global culture. They get all the jokes and references. They all listen to mostly American music. And the source of their news and lens through which they view the world is almost always one of the American social media giants. I think the formalities of nation states and their distinctions are just there to disguise the reality that the economic and cultural ties between US states and European states are so comparable as to make it defacto apart of the United States. And from that reality arises the military and economic alliances that make it a formality.

It's taken a long time to get to this point through World Wars and the Cold War. But now we're closer to one entity than we've ever been. Consider that somewhat recently even the British, despite speaking the same language as Americans, lived in a media bubble of their own domestic TV, Newspapers, and Radio. Satellite TV and now the internet have made the BBC just one of many streams of data to tune into. And the majority of the other options are American. The most interesting thing about this is that because the internet is not a one way street we've also seen how American politics are influenced by Europeans on the internet. It is more of a merger than an acquisition, truly.

I'd also like to add that this is true of a lot of places in the world to varying degrees. For example Japan is certainly quite Americanized, but there is also at the same time a clear cultural wall between me and most Japanese people. I think its because they still manage to consume a lot of domestically produced content.

>aggressive Russian expansion
I suppose you could call "keeping American strategic weaponry out of eastern europe and presserving an anchorage for the Black Sea fleet" that but it sounds awfully jingoistic. The US and EU should be moving Russia into our camp and away from China. Isolating China is VASTLY more important than some Foggy Bottom neocons' Cold War blue balled desire to destroy Russia. The Ukraine never needed American nukes or troops to get Taiwan-rich middle-manning trades between the West and Russia. That would be a good thing. The US cooperating with Russia in foreign affairs as we've done in the ME quite frequently of late is a good thing (the particular policies pursued notwithstanding). "Getting Putin" to assuage the egos of certain DC dinisaurs by enlisting a passel of corrupt ukrainian cat's paws at the risk of nuclear war and sino-russian alignment is worst potato on the short bus.
America is tops at monke memes and vee deh vee, but I don't love our chance at "winning" a nuke fight especially not when it's so Mrs Robert "PNAC" Kaplan can say she's got a bigger dick (which was always true, bitch needs some self esteem)

That's just called "globalization" user, and it's hardly unique to Europe. If you are a milennial living in a developed or semi-developed country you were raised on roughly the same TV shows, movies, toys, vidya and pop culture.

there's also short term versus long term thinking. the EU needs russian hydrocarbons, (maybe, they actually have plenty of stuff that's exploitable if they'd start fracking) but Putin is a liability to them. If you get rid of Putin the hydrocarbons will stay where they were.

Wheres the oil/gas in Europe?

...

In the ground/seabed where the Greens want it
Russia has commodities beyond petro that the EU needs and all the more so as the US and China grab up the global south. Putin isn't the problem. Anybody sitting in his chair (who wanted to stay there) would make all the same moves by necessity. People who want to break up Russia want nukes near Moscow and people who don't want Russia broken up resist exactly that. Pro-Russia Russians are a commanding majority inside Russia by some coincidence, so removing Putin won't fix the Ukraine.

It brings the Russian border closer to Europe, it's bad enough that you have gopniks pissing and shitting themselves in Moscow, imagine if they were as close as Lviv. I'm American and I can't understand how Europeans tolerate the presence of Russia as close as they are, the knowledge Russians exist on the other side of the planet makes me want to vomit.

EU is a way for Germany and France to bully the smaller European nations and curb US influence.

Germany and France was happy the UK left because UK had influence, they just needed to make sure to punish UK for leaving to discourage the rest to leave.

>What are the threads that the United States can pull to influence the decisions of others?
It's NATO, stupid

Jews get BTFO from Spain, come to England and create a colonial empire, then some colonies rebel and create the US, then the jews come to the US and create British empire 2.0.

>European states are vassals of the United States
Nah. They paid us to cover their asses while they recover from being fucked in the ass.

Adherence to the petrodollar, and unified opposition against the USSR, etc.

That's why I just smile whenever EU countries flaunt their "free" healthcare and social programs because they wouldn't be able to build such infrastructures without the US. Losing their colonies were really a big loss for them.