Now

One thing I disagree
>increasingly islamist
Boomers, not millenials. Turks on average are less conservative today. But it was boomers who elected him

Other than that, yes Turkish people are just as responsible. But if you look at 2000s Erdogan was very pro west and very pro EU again he was forcing cyprus to accept the terms. He was willing to hand it on a platter. Was that a golden platter? No, but still a platter.

But I will give him that he is at fault too, he used EU not to democratize but to take down old establishment. When he became the establishment he stopped giving a fuck about EU. Secondly EU was constantly forcing Turkey to become better, more democratic but Erdogan played them too with refugees. Current EU policy is "whatever we don't care just keep refugees in" Which basically kept him in power.
Both Turkey and Erdogan was very pro west and pro eu in 2000s and if Sarkozy and Cyprus wasn't an ass about it you would have a more democratic and a friendly Turkey. But I think many europeans rather have an islamist turkey to fit their us vs them narrative than a secular democratic one.

I think what EU wants is a total capitulation of Turkey without any benefit to it
>accept gas pipes, take refugees, do this do that
okay can we get into eu?
>no fuck off roach

They are very retarded to be against eu, the alternative is to like russia or iran or china.

Why ally with kikes, most of ur population probably doesn’t want that

Population was very pro eu until early 2010s. Being anti eu was a joke ideology only popular by radical jihadists. now even secualr spout it.
Kikes/globohomo/whateveryoucall it have much higher living standards and wealth than based eurasia. Anyone who is willing to be russia v2 china v2 is retarded.

Just don’t join the EU, erdogan has to wake up his alliances are contradictory

you seem a decent fella so i'll just tell you how it is:
turkey would have never been accepted in the eu. turkey will never be accepted in the eu, either. want to know why? because you are muslims. that's it. look at albania and bosnia, they haven't been allowed to join either. even morocco asked to join and was laughed out the door. it cannot be helped. even if (big if) turkey democratized itself and became very western friendly and basically kissed our asses all day every day, it still wouldn't be allowed in, because that would require universal consensus and if turkey was part of the eu muslims would be able to easily move and live wherever they want, and poland and hungary and several other countries would literally rather get nuked out of existence than ever letting that happen.
sorry pal, i was also pro turkey in the eu back then, but it was always a nothingburger in the end, a pipedream.

Yeah I know the chance long gone.
But I still think 2004 was a missed chance. No way in hell Erdo could pull what he is did post 2010 if Turkey was a memberstate. See how Orban and PiS in Poland is being curtailed by EU.
I lament the fact that it. Too many countries were accepted in 2004 expansion when they wouldn't have if they were muslim as you said.
But I still hope next administration will follow a more pro eu policy even if there is no chance of joining in.
Not like we have a chance now.

Because the Jews don’t want them, that’s all it is, they play the goyims with each other

Just look at the future of most EU states, it’s going in the shit, stay conservative, a patriot and move on

you seem very ignorant on the current economic situation of turkey, they are actually going to shit much faster than glohohomo europe ever did

Gets me further to the point

I think you say that because grass is greener. There is a reason why turk diaspora for all their bullhit patriotism never move back to turkey.
>it still wouldn't be allowed in
also this is the reason why Turkey acts more hostile, turkey realized it would never get in so giving concessions is seen as absurd. But I dunno maybe more friendly relations will make things batter.

eu membership was never really on the table, but if erdogan keeps his sultan shtick going he will just end up getting kicked out of nato as well

There is no kicking mechanism in NATO but I don't think Turkey will be alienated regardless, especially after the Russian shenanigans. I was surprised how turkey was praised for ukraine actions but I just hope that won't prolongs erdo's reign. I think a pro west Turkey is in the interest of both sides but Turkey deffinetly needs a new administration to commit to that.

It’s like saying why don’t French diaspora move back to making baguettes

a new pro west administration was actually in the works but they were fucking hanged lol
how long until the next coup

They were another islamist group but yes they were pro west. I'm glad they failed. I rather have Erdogan over isis tier zealots who are in the pockets of cia.
Erdogan might try something since he cannot win any election since 2019 and his popularity (alongside the boomer demographic that vote for him) is vaning. He will deffinetly lose an election but whether or not he will allow an election is the issue.
And I also fear EU might support him as he is the only politician who argues to keep refugees in, albeit with occasional threats, all the opposition is anti refugee and openly so. EU might support him as devil they now over secular wildcarts who might commit a syrian pogrom ala young turks.

Can erdogan even run again

NATO won't kick out its 3rd biggest army so easily. Turkish weapon industry already proved itself to be better than anyone would expect it to be. I know some young Turks personally and I know most of you are more pro West than we are here. Turks are not jihadi guys and I will never believe stereotypes and jokes about Turks.

He can do anything he likes, retarded turks voted so. But he also made a very retarded policy 50% vote requirement. Thinking since he is around 40-55% always he would secure power for eternity. But right now he is at 30% and opposition is united against him.
And if opposition wins, it can do a lot of shit because erdo expanded the power of the ruling government. Thats why I fear he might declare some bullshit emergency and cancel elections, and he won't get sanctioned for it because of refugees.
Or he might willingly step down provided he doesn't get prosecuted. That is also likely
Hah thanks, but I think thats because Poland often get white collar turks, engineers and coders while germany/france has turks who are even more conservative and radical than erdogan voters here.