>2008 >Russia invades Georgia >Russia wins but had piss poor performance against a barely relevant country like Georgia >Russian soldiers look like they're straight out of the Cold War >Russian military leadership takes note of this and begins military reforms and modernization programs >2014, Crimean Annexation >Russian soldiers noticeably look better equipped and more modern than the ones we saw in 2008 >After decades of stagnation, looks like the Russian military is finally evolving into a more modern and professional fighting force >2022, Invasion of Ukraine >Turns out Russian military is still shit.
What the fuck happened? I thought they were gonna be better? If it weren't for nukes NATO would be Desert Storming their ass back across the Russo-Ukrainian border.
They had enough moni to upgrade their SOF and nobody else.
So once they get into a big war that SOF can't handle on their own, the effects of having an economy smaller than Italy begin to appear.
Brandon Morgan
It's going to be like 2008 really. They'll win, but their performance are so shit that it won't even feel like a victory.
Their problem now is that they're pretty much banished from the western world for the time being.
Nolan Gomez
No matter how you spin it you can't maintain a superpower worthy quality military when your economy is no better than let's say Italy and you have a massive corruption problem.
preddy good info that makes sense about the porpaganda shit going on right now.
far as op's post, russia military doctrine is to send in the low level conscripts for first stages of an invasion, the big dogs flood in once the enemies have been encircled. doctrine for the low levels is to avoid heavy combat in urban areas but instead to retreat to outskirts and encircle enemy, hence all the 'russia retreats again!' propaganda. once they have there artilerray in position outside kiev and have it encircled, heavies are gonna come in and kiev will fall or starve to death, prolly why ukraine prez just fled.
Чиceльнicть 50 000 ociб, y тoмy чиcлi 42 000 вiйcькoвocлyжбoвцiв
everything turns out 246+46+42=334.000
if we take only the army and nationalist battalions:
246+46=292 thousands of people against 150 thousand Russians. A whole week has passed, Ukrainians, why haven't you still knocked these damn weak and demoralized 18-year-old recruits on old Soviet equipment off your land? they are 2 times less than you? you have been trained for 8 years by the best NATO instructors, they gave you the best weapons. What are you, Ukrainians?
>Russia wins but had piss poor performance against a barely relevant country like Georgia Anything worth reading or watching for a more in depth look at Russian performance during that war? I'm curious.
Cooper Wilson
>russia sending young untrained zoomers who just want to play cs:go to be cannon fodder
Lmao. That sounds absolutely terrible user. Russia's disregard for their own soldier's lives knows no bounds.
Ian Evans
>Russian soldiers look like they're straight out of the Cold War
I wish our soldiers still looked like they did during the Cold War :(
They clearly cashed the budget and converted it in Adidas articles
Jace Robinson
>he is still here
Christopher Rodriguez
Jesus christ why are Vatniks so fucking obvious? TRY HARDER.
Josiah King
Russia didn't really invest all that money into their military but instead Putin and his harem siphoned the funds to their Swiss bank accounts (currently frozen). They just made some pathetic prototypes out of cardboard and glue and pretended that they're in the game. The Russian army is just a big Potemkin village.
Kayden Martinez
>The Russian army is just a big Potemkin village.
Khokhol said, having lost 8 cities in 8 days from the army of 150 thousand people against 250 thousand of the Ukrainian army
Mason Ross
yeah nowadays they have trans flags and pronouns
Nicholas Walker
>having lost 8 cities in 8 days Only 3 of those are over 100k pop and none are over 300k pop lol. Also, for the 100th time, no one thinks that Ukraine can win an all out war with Russia, we are just laughing at your army's pathetic display against one of the most dirt poor European countries.
Adam Smith
this is accurate, but also western leaders still have chance to assist ukraine to win, but they wont do anything until "oh no its too late now". which they will also never be forgiven for.
Nicholas Edwards
the alternating pattern is correct. they did well, got complacent, and thought they could rest on their laurels and snatch up an easy win again.
Ayden Kelly
The main reason why we fucked up here, cause one very important guy in Russia, by some very strange reasons ordered not to airstrike ukrainian infantry and armoured units. The thing is that he expected that russian troopers will be resisted only by national batallions (the most motivated units in the Ukrainian military) and Armed forces of the Ukraine (alongside with population of it) will meet russians just like it was in Crimea in 2014. But soon we figured out, that this fuckers really want to join "muh saint NATO and Murica and Gayrop" so now our boys have to kill all of the fuckers who points weapon at us. Thats all
Forgive my english please
p.s. I don't hate ukraininans, I dont believe in fairytales about ukrainian Nazis or genocide of russians, but we really have to overthrow Kievan government. Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies
>Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies Can you really blame them ? They probably are even more willing now, who would want to be allied with russclowns now ?
Evan Howard
If NATO is Russia's enemy then why didn't you leave any troops on the border with the Baltic republics, all of which are in the alliance? The truth is that Russia is not threatened by Nato, but it's a convenient scapegoat for the paranoid and dementic Russian leadership.
Justin Ward
In 2012, their reformer General had made a lot of enemies and was shitcanned for denying payment to oligarchs who were providing substandard equipment and charging full price. He was replaced with a “palace official”, the kind of man who is everyone’s friend and who never offends.
What this means is that the oligarchs in charge of Russia’s defense industry have been robbing the Russian army blind. The good performance of 2014 is how good Russia’s army after 4 years of care and two years of abuse. The abysmal performance of 2022 is how good Russia’s army is after 4 years of care and 10 years of abuse.
Aiden Morales
okay and? you are an overglorifed gas station of a country, what happens if you even win, you still take massive losses and you still have nato bases in poland, the baltics, your enclave is surrounded, you rallied EU military spending the likes that havent been seen since WW2, the balkans are now paranoid, small nations around you want to join the EU because they know the same is going to happen to them, all the while youre going fucking bankrupt from western sanctions
what exactly is your endgame here? dont give me some whatabout middle eastern shithole xyz answer, tell me what exactly the plan here is 10 years down the line
Julian Johnson
mate, the Ukies were never going to join NATO without resolving the situation in the Donbass first. The conflict was frozen, all Russian objectives had been achieved by 2015 at minimal cost. The time to invade all of Ukraine was in 2014, when they barely had a military and were in the middle of civil unrest.
Bentley Mitchell
>Gayrop You literally european retard Stop this asian dugin larp crap
>The time to invade all of Ukraine was in 2014, when they barely had a military and were in the middle of civil unrest. Agreed. We had to invade in 2014 - it would be better both for ukrainians and russians It doesnt matter what they want, doesnt matter what georgians or kazakhs want. We have to keep control and keep buffer states between us and NATO > overglorifed gas station of a country, sad but true >you still take massive losses and you still have nato bases in poland, the baltics, dont really care of poland and baltics. Poland is too far from our borders, baltics military (just like their economy) is a joke. >what exactly is your endgame here? to overthrow current government, create a buffer state for us. Take Ukrainian governemnt under control. Start russian propaganda at ukrainian territory. You gonna laugh, but i'm really asian (mongol from russia)
Kevin Jackson
>We had to invade in 2014 Sorry comrade, the official discourse is that Russia never invaded in 2014 and the """insurgents""" bought Russian gear and vehicles from the local supermarket, I'm afraid Putin will need you to commit suicide with 5 shots to the back of the head for contradicting the Kremlin.
Hunter Jenkins
>The Russian propaganda line is that they deliberately send their most untrained young men to be killed first by the enemy
What a country. I wonder why everyone wants to join NATO
Adrian Taylor
>baltics military (just like their economy) is a joke
Less of a joke than Russia's
Jack Bennett
Was this supposed to make them sound smarter?
Jayden Gray
Russian performance and corruption is sk bad that they cant win unless they capture an airfield intact and clear a flight corridor to it. Ukraine has logistics. Russia doesnt. Simple as that, you dotn have an army without logistics.
Besides how many of those 200k are ghosts who exist in list but in reality the co collects the checks?
You have no fucking idea how corrupted russia is..ukraine has a good chance, just like finland and estonia did.
Logan Murphy
>Baltics economy is a joke Lmao cooing vatnik. Seethe that tiny countries prosper
Jose Thompson
I agree to an extent, but Ukraine is also massively fucking corrupt. And Russia seems to be switching tactics now, after realizing that they can't actually just walk into Ukrainian cities and be hailed as liberators they are just copeseetheshelling them into oblivion:
Their usage of modernized combined arms can only be applied in a small area for a short time, they cannot scale to a country the size of Ukraine. All the money has gone to oligarchs and to modernizing their nuclear arsenal.
>It doesnt matter what they want And that, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why everybody opposes Russia. And Russia cannot understand why everybody is always picking on it.
Jose Johnson
>They'll win Fucking vatniks man
Daniel White
Western nations are dumping weapons into Ukraine though and Ukrainians seem to have the moral to fight back at this point. If Russians start taking 40,000+ causalities, will they continue to think the invasion is worthwhile?
Jonathan Parker
Russia Georgia war lasted 5 days. Russia lost
Cameron Nelson
>but also western leaders still have chance to assist ukraine to win Okay, how do you do this without escalating to nuclear war
He was fired for telling them corruption was bad and so was raping your fellow man. He also said things like shooting up heroin and krokodil is bad. And to only drink vodka in moderation.
William Parker
>haven't made significant gains. >taken the size of U.K. in a week
We expected the Russian military of 2022 to be able to conquer Ukraine quite literally at the same speed they can drive their fucking tanks. 2 days for the entire country.
Frankly we expected they'd be able to do it by 2014. And in 2014 that might have happened.
Gabriel Lee
Intelligence sharing, training and supplies
Juan Sanders
After 2008, a honest modernization attempt was made at first, but the guy heading it stepped on too many toes and got replaced by the usual kleptocrats.
Jack Smith
bro i fucking hate ruskies and have been doing my part monke postin. But russia is going to win. It wont be a victory they like though.
If they dont win. I dont think my sides will ever return from high orbit.
Brandon Foster
The Ukrainian army in 2014 certainly wouldn't have resisted in the same way as they do now.
Colton Lee
at the bare minimum they need to take mariupol/remaining parts of donbas and hold on to crimean canal for putin to stay in power
Elijah Bell
>checkd But that map looks almost identical to the first week. What Significant ground have they made? This map is even saying that the east is pacified. Mariupol taken? Border of Moldova Captured? What in the actual fuck?! This is russian propaganda at its most desperate.
Ayden Gonzalez
You're doing a great job keeping buffer states between you and NATO. My very nato-sceptic country is probably gonna join NATO later this year because of this. Good job.
Xavier Roberts
> It doesnt matter what they want, doesnt matter what georgians or kazakhs want. We have to keep control and keep buffer states between us and NATO
The Russian cries out in pain as he strikes you
Kayden Lee
Oh yeah and IVAS, don’t forget that when you accidentally get domed by a friendly because your shitty Baofeng battery died
>p.s. I don't hate ukraininans, I dont believe in fairytales about ukrainian Nazis or genocide of russians, but we really have to overthrow Kievan government. Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies
They wouldn't be trying to join NATO if you hadn't kept them under your boot for nearly a millennia and then proceeded to violate their sovereignty (again) 20 years after they signed the Budapest Memorandum and handed back all of your nuclear weapons with the specific promise that their independence would be respected.
They basically didn't have one. Had I been Putin and was planning to take Crimea like that, I would have stationed a 100k men on the Ukrainian border and gathered the entire VDV to be ready. In fact the moment Maidan started I would brought back every Russian in Syria and told them to get fucking ready.
And when Crimea falls without a hitch, it would be fucking go time with the biggest priority preventing the escape of anyone by air plane.
Levi Edwards
Pretty simple really.
In modern warfare the meta is very small highly trained armies with excellent sensors, very short kill chains and lots of precision weapons. Russians just refuse to adopt this.
Consider the following: United Kingdom >Spending: $59.2 billion >Uniformed Personnel: 203 000 (including reserves) >Dollar per serviceman: $295 000
Russia >Spending: $61.7 billion >Uniformed Personnel: 3 000 000 (including reserves) >Dollar per serviceman: $20 333
Were the Russians serious about reform after Georgia, they would have ended conscription and reduced the total size of their military to ~500 000 and emphasized investments on the ability to maneuver, sustain maneuver, detect the enemy and kill the enemy with precise, distributed, fires.
The absolute lack of precision weapons and the inability to "find, see, tell, kill" compounded by unwieldy formations is what is flummoxing them right now. >you see them spamming MRLS, which looks impressive, but the reality is (with some exception) that 99% of missiles fired do absolutely nothing.
Alexander Barnes
Haven't we already been doing that? Genuine question, I read we'd been sharing intel and providing supplies. I've seen the calls for a no-fly zone but that's presumably not possible unless we want to risk WW3.
That map looks nothing like the reality on the ground.
Austin Howard
Don't even need to end conscription completely. Just stop raping each other.
Lucas Morales
Seriously do these retards not remember the Holodomor?
Anthony Anderson
>The time to invade all of Ukraine was in 2014 But why didn't they?
Jayden Cooper
>Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state Russians talk about NATO like it's some empire expanding by force. It's a fucking opt-in defensive alliance. Are they really that incurious why all these Warsaw Pact nations are CHOOSING closer ties to the West?
Shift conscription to the Taiwanese model where its a short-service program based on building military skills so that you can call up a national guard in a time of crisis.
Conscription in the modern era just does not cut it.
Isaiah Fisher
>They wouldn't be trying to join NATO if you hadn't kept them under your boot for nearly a millennia Then they are Russian. Just Kievan Rus.
They lost a few wars to the point that the entire area had to be resettled with other Russians after the Tatars and others were beaten down and driven out.
Landon Bailey
Finland. Finland disagrees.
William Ramirez
This is the big problem with Russia's army. They refuse to adapt. They still think manpower is relevant in the new age of aircraft and manpads. All you need these days is a barebones military servicemen who are highly trained and a shitton of new tech weapons. Israel has been shitting on the arabs despite having 0,01% of their population. Russia should have taken note. This isn't WWII where you can just throw men's lives at the issue until it is resolved.
Adrian Gray
A professional army would fuck finland into the dirt.
Ian Phillips
Why is all they l the shit they're using their old stuff? Haven't seen any su-35, upgraded t-90s or soldiers using their new AK yet.
Are they literally sending their troops with old stuff to just get rid of it?
They will never end conscription. Their borders are too big for 500k troops to defend. The russian command is also still fucked in the head from WW2 when the Germans mowed down on tens of millions of them so their whole defense doctrine is still having as many reservists as possible even if their training is Mali tier.
Aiden Howard
Russia NEEDS an enemy. Without an enemy, its leadership needs to improve the country and its leadership is completely incapable of doing so as their greed forces them to siphon everything away from the country. Without an evil boogeyman enemy, people might start asking questions. NATO plays that role and due to Russia's stance towards them, NATO will have to play into that too or risk being too weak as a defensive alliance. Any actual curiosity towards why those countries would do so will be curbed and instead reported as evil nazi takeovers or the like. Russia needs someone to be anti-Russia as a distraction regardless of if they truly are anti-Russia.
Luke Lopez
>They still think manpower is relevant Because it is. Quality of that manpower matters and they spend more time hazing, raping and shooting up and getting drunk than training. Probably spend more time marching in formation.
And their entire upper echelon of society is uninterested in having a fully functional warmachine or even a fully functional economy.
Ethan Martinez
Most of their old gear was getting more and more outdated. Probably decided to just use it rather than lose it. But that's also killing their own troops since the Ukrainians are fighting with modern MANPADs and AT launchers.
Joshua Butler
>Their borders are too big for 500k troops to defend In a nuclear era this is not a problem that cannot be offset by investing in tactical and strategic mobility. The only people who will fuck with your borders are not the kind of people you have to worry about fighting conventional wars against.
Caleb Davis
>they're pretty much banished from the western world for the time being. With toothless sanctions that mean dick bubkis and will be removed as soon as Ukraine is annexed. Germany still relies on Russian oil and the US imports a ton of it too. It's all lipservice
John Hall
>Because it is. It literally is not. The US can take over Ukraine with 20,000 men provided the operation is planned well. You only need men in this day and age to establish order in conquered provinces and move tech, not much else. Drones, jets, artillery does all the work.
Connor King
But surely they must realise that the tech has moved on and WW2 is a fundamentally different beast than modern warfare?
Ethan Moore
>Germany still relies on Russian oil No.
>US imports a ton of it too lol
Manpower is beyond irrelevant. Iraq (1.0 and 1.2) as well as this current conflict should have demonstrated this to you.
Its about sensors and precision fires.
Xavier Myers
With all the rape that goes on in the Russian military, it's no wonder that many Russian units have poor unit cohesion. Why the fuck would I want to fight to the death beside Boris, Lord of Poz, who has raped everyone in the platoon multiple times and given all of us HIV?
Eli Cruz
>artillery If you have the economy to spam stand-off range missiles and PGM on drones you don't need artillery. Russia can't afford all that new gear and can't make it themselves either.
Luis Diaz
That's because the US has a massive advantage. Infantry still has roles besides holding territory in peer-to-peer combat. Just because the US has no peers doesn't make the troop quality any less important.
Bentley Hill
They would probably need closer to the same number as Russia has deployed. The difference is that their actual combat units would be quite small and their logistics and support staff would be the bulk of the force. And they would do it with
Carson Wright
For fun did some math. Russia has a population of 144m and gdp of 1.483tr and the baltics have the population of 6.2m and combined gdp of about 200m if you adjust for population russia would have the gdp of ~60m. While being the biggest country in the world with all possible resources in abundance how does this happen?
To be fair the Russians aren’t doing too bad. Despite Twitter and TikTok news, they made significant territorial gains, with a fairly small force. Russia invaded with 150k men. By comparison, the coalition had 300k men during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. To the opposite of Iraq after 21 years of crippling sanctions, Ukraine is no pushover. They invested quite a bit in their military since 2014 and are getting lots of hardware and intel from the West. Still Russia has some major deficiencies in terms of logistic.
Ethan Stewart
niggers?
Cameron Peterson
>Russia can't afford all that new gear and can't make it themselves either. They could if they cut down on the size of their army.
>If you have the economy to spam stand-off range missiles and PGM on drones you don't need artillery You can if your kill chain and sensors are good enough you can do it with arty. Drone/Recon spots, command draws up a fire mission and your arty (being mobile) has guns on target quick enough and you can get the job done. Most western armies (UK, US, France, GER) are to the point where they can draw up and execute fire missions on moving formations.
Caleb Martinez
That's nonsense. Aside from the initial 3 days, they've made very little progress and have given shitty casualties. On top of that, with their economy in the shitter, they're unable to move the war forward to some decisive conclusion.
Parker Robinson
Yup, Makarov was ditched for Gerasimov in 2012 and the army has been rotting ever since. In 2014, they army only stank a little, now it reeks terribly.
Angel Wilson
This war has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia. Ukraine, the country that has been losing ground since day 1 and has their country slowly devolving into a crater has better prospects than Russia right now.
Ethan Myers
Well, Russia does officially deny the Holodomor (as an act of genocide), so I wouldn't be surprised if it's omitted/glossed over in Russian schools like how the Jap textbooks just avoid mentioning a place called "Nanking".
Seriously though, if the Russian Federation had just owned up to the Holodomor being a crime against humanity and either made a formal apology or at least shifted all blame for the atrocity onto the defunct Soviet Union, relations with Ukraine probably wouldn't have deteriorated to this point, or at least not nearly as suddenly and rapidly.
To be fair all they need is like 100k troops now. The US isn't gonna engage due to nuclear retaliation and no European army could defeat a nation with 100k trained and modernized troops.
Nathan Ortiz
super cool to see from your side do you personably think nato is bad r just not good for your government
Jonathan Morales
they need to be able to fight separatists in their own country
Michael Powell
Theft, substance abuse, and embezzlement.
Bentley Green
>It doesnt matter what they want, doesnt matter what georgians or kazakhs want. We have to keep control and keep buffer states between us and NATO Yeah as usual, the paranoid arrogant drunkard reveals itself. Vatniks turn everything they touch to shit. Vodkaland is too big for its own good, it desperately needs to be reassembled into smaller slavic states with actually local and human governance. As long as they follow the Kremlin it is just going to be a endless miserable borderland barely surviving and now degenerating into just a bigger north korea.
>p.s. I don't hate ukraininans, I dont believe in fairytales about ukrainian Nazis or genocide of russians, but we really have to overthrow Kievan government. Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies Ah, yes, "I wouldn't have to hit you if you didn't try to stop me from hitting you". Fine logic.
Aiden Gray
Just think the potential of russia what could they do under a great leader. We might see it if russia gets humiliated by the west
Gabriel Hughes
trips confirm
Brayden Evans
Something an airmobile formation like the VDV could more than handle
Brandon Johnson
You think they're sending their worst because they wanna save the best equipment for the real war ?
Asher Perry
You guys have been trying to push this meme for days now and the fact that this is what your superiors are telling you to say should make you consider shooting your superiors.
Charles Wilson
kek. not really. Never underestimate natives defending their well prepped homes vs mercenaries
Asher Stewart
I'm not pushing really, I just had this thought right now. I'm not even well versed in politics and war user just genuinly asking a question
Juan Nguyen
Don't be naive, Putin has enough men and resources to take Ukraine. Despite their heavy loses, they will take it, no matter how bloody. The Russian meat grinder has plenty to spare. This is how they've always fought for the last 200 years, casualties mean nothing to Russian high command.
Isaiah Foster
nato is only your enemy because you keep invading european nations, if this is about nato then why doesnt your government stop occupying moldova, which cant join nato by constitutional law and isnt on your border?
btw eastern europe which has nations that have spent 20+ years in nato and the eu, also outlaws gay marriage and has the same anti fag parade laws as you
Julian Howard
Probably not. It's more that they expected the war to be over a lot sooner, because they were high on their own copium, and they thought that the Ukrainians actually supported Russia over their own government.
James Sanders
the answer is no.
Would finland be able to fight an insurgency? user, illiterate africans can do it I am sure the finns could as well.
Conventionally though, any western nation would walk through their standing army like it was a cloud of smoke.
Caleb Allen
> they thought that the Ukrainians actually supported Russia over their own government
I doubt they really thought that, that was just an excuse they used which is better than saying "we're doing this so NATO won't have an advantage over us"
James Green
The meta can change over a decade if someone can come up with some bullshit tech that negates all those new smart weapons. And we go back to ww2 tactics, except with particle beam weapons or something alike, and numbers start to matter again.
Can vatnik explain the interest of buffer state when nuclear subs and ICBM exist ? I mean you have to chose. Danger is either nuclear and in that case there is no buffer-state explanation that holds. Or it's not about nuclear but conventional warfare and then invasion doesn't hold either as NATO never ever intended to set a boot on russian territory let alone Moscow
Evan Jenkins
I hate supporting war but I also wanna see the US and France destroyed
Bentley Flores
>some bullshit tech that negates all those new smart weapons.
Which being heterogenous and rapidly developed will not be negated by a single tech.
I would add further that in the first few critical years after the fall of Communism, the general failure of the Russian Federation to execrate the Soviet Union (specifically Stalin) and its disgraceful legacy or at the very least distance itself from that regime (i.e. pledging not to attempt to perpetuate the Soviet Union's expansionism) was likely a major factor in pushing virtually all of the defunct Warsaw Pact into NATO.
Say what you will about Federal Germany and its execration of the Third Reich, the official denunciation of Nazism is why it's able to enjoy a good rapport with nations full of people that not even a lifetime ago it had so brutally victimized such as Poland, France, the Netherlands, Israel, even Russia (until last week).
Afghanistan lasted a decade. Russian losses have been disastrous so far but I can’t foresee them continuing to smash their head against the wall for long. They’re going to start slowing down on ballsy pushes and be more methodical. It may take years before they finally retreat, and Putin seems to have pretty strong support back home. If Ukraine doesn’t fall soon, like within the month, this will likely drag out for years and end with tens of thousands of casualties and a brokered peace in which Russia maintains territorial gains in the east. Despite all of the materiel sent over I don’t think they are likely to come out with a Russian retreat unless they seriously start stacking bodies and invasion becomes totally untenable. Russia CANNOT suffer a humiliating loss in the state they are now, they will continue this until major protests cannot be silenced back home.
Colton Perry
Outside of far east territory I am of the understanding that most of the area they control is confined to roads, as they are unable to maneuver adeptly off them. If so, doesn’t that make their gains less intimidating than shown here? If that’s the case then they are certainly in a bad situation, regardless of the advantage of numbers and technology.
Angel Richardson
the map looks flattering but reality is not actually a paradox map painter, they dont have control of any of those red areas aside from a few road junctions and the front line where the actual soldiers are hanging out even if they manage to beat the ukrainian armed forces they cannot actually win the war, the puppet they install in kiev is going to be overthrown the millisecond they leave and there are no resources, money or manpower to occupy the entirety of the country as the ukrainians just start a guerrilla war with their country literally bordering nato russia cant cope with a guerilla war for 20 years, they cant cope for 5 years and personally I doubt they would be able to hold on for even 1 year before withdrawing and losing everything
Thomas Smith
The Finns and Estonians are quite close so the Estonian economy got a lot of investment in it post-Soviet Union.
Joseph Myers
I am all in for Ukraine at this point as they provide us with infinite meme energy. But Zelensky is retarded demanding a no fly zone. The only thing he would get from that is a tactical nuke on every airbase in his country. Disputed air allows the allies to operate in a gray zone of proxy war.
Daniel Rogers
The Finnish army would be the insurgency in any conflict they would be involved in. And they would do a great job at it
Gavin Torres
>Danger is either nuclear NATO forces in Odessa is Russia's worst nightmare, they could shoot down their nukes the moment they launch.
Brandon Gray
>What the fuck happened? Serdyukov got fired and modernization stopped. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Serdyukov Turns out, army turns into slackers when not under civilian control.
Henry Campbell
>Russia miraculously loses to Ukraine >somehow suffers such humiliating defeat that it must retreat within its own borders >Ukraine gets ballsy and penetrates into Russian territory, Russia actually fucking surrenders, Ukraine annexes much of its territory >Zelensky takes the podium on the day of armistice, smiling toothily >Thank you for your support, all. We are now seeing the dawn of a new era. The birth of a new Ukrainian empire >Soviet Union 2.0 forms
HoI IV is fun why doesn’t shit like this happen IRL
Austin Morris
According to that logic why didn't they send the first wave with Mosins and T-34s?
Connor Powell
>Putin has enough men and resources to take Ukraine >Despite their heavy loses, they will take it, no matter how bloody >The Russian meat grinder has plenty to spare
From what I've seen, there's still issues with corruption, lax maintenance etc.
But the real issue was absolutely, comically delusional operational planning right from the top. Putin drank his own kool-aid and sincerely believed that there wouldn't be even a real war, that Ukraine isn't a real country and that nobody would fight for the Kiyv government. So he sent them all in with a plan and level of preparations for something akin to Hungary '58. Plus he was so obsessed with secrecy that he didn't even tell anyone on the gorund that they wer egoing to war.
And then they ran into an actual, for-real war instead and everything went to shit.
Like, the equivalent to this I saw someone make is like this:
Imagine you're a guy in an Army infantry unit. Your unit's been sent to some maneuvers at the border to Mexico for a couple weeks, you're back in camp and then everyone gets called out, the officers take your cellphones etc. and announce that you're going to be rolling into Mexico to beat up some Cartel fuckos. No details no real plan, just a point on a map and an order to secure it within X hours. Also, you're told the mexican army isn't really going to do anything and you shouldn't worry about any fighting or anything. Also logistics will be sorted out later once the initial goals are secured. Then your platoon rolls across the border, and after twenty miles an L-shape ambush by a short company of mexican regulars fucking blasts all of you off the road with light AT and kills everybody.
Josiah Hughes
How long did the US take to invade a shithole like Iraq? How long did it take the US to conquer Vietnam? How long for North Korea? How long did it take Germany to inavde France? How long did it take Germany to invade Russia? Come back in a couple of months and see who's winning.
I don't remember seeing Abrams and Bradleys being towed by sand gypsies or American troops going without food for 5 days.
Leo Davis
Neither Iraq, Vietnam or North Korea border the USA.
Wyatt Davis
>Soviet Union 2.0 forms
Kievan Rus*
Outside of babushka-age vatniks with Stockholm, Hohols hate communism harder than anyone else.
Brody Long
we probably would do that since they violated the agreement not to build installations in border nations, but up until they started invading prospective nato members that wouldnt have been possible
Aiden Mitchell
You lost more men in 2 days than the US lost in 20 years, Ivan. Shouldn't you be out there fighting for your country? I wanna see the .webm of Ukie militiamen executing you while you plead for your life get posted.
Samuel Wood
how long is your stock market going to be closed?
Nicholas Brooks
>Serdyukov also launched plans to reduce the personnel in the central administration by 30%, which would lead to the liquidation of a significant number of positions filled by generals and colonels.[12] He was demanding drastic cuts in Russia's officer corps. There was an officer to every two and a half men. After the reform there should be just one to every 15, more similar to western armies. The reform would mean losing 200,000 jobs, and has been met with fierce political opposition by the "old guard." Now I see why Russia is full of incompetence, they're absolutely chock full of old military "leaders" that are there just for the payday and prestige.
Grayson Lee
Isn't this guy literally an airsofter?
Dylan Hughes
He's being realistic. The West doesn't care what Ukraine wants either, it has its own agenda. This conflict is about which sphere of influence Ukraine will be under. You can argue about which sphere of influence is worse to be under but that wasn't the point he was making.
Camden Long
>doesn't know the shortest route for an ICBM to US is through arctic. >THAAD in Alaska and Canada Anti-missile capabilities in Odessa is useless unless they strike Greece or Balkans, for which USofA dgaf
John Phillips
>T-34s too obvious
Joseph Adams
Not about reducing size. They do not have the technical expertise.
Nathan Wood
Exactly and weapons seized in Gostomel suggest it was elite units >Pechenegs, AK-12, AS Val
William Campbell
LMAO. Have you actually paid attention to the sanction package? They booted Russia off of SWIFT. That's in itself practically a death sentence for an economy whose GDP is literally more than 50% from trade, like Russia.
The ruble is fucking cratered. The russian stock markets are closed because they literally cannot open them anymore without everything going up in flames immediately.
And you know what the real kicker is? All of that isn't actually a direct result of the sanctions. Those will take at least 2-3 more weeks to start for real. The fucking massive crash you're seeing right now, that's just the markets panicking upon seeing the shitstorm that is about to hit coming over the horizon.
Germany doesn't rely on anything anymore. There will not be any more new oil contracts with Russia, only the currnet ones being finished while the LNG terminals go up and investment into renewables goes into overdrive. Oil? Yeah, prices are about to go up. Way up. Yanks are gonna start fracking again. Europe doesn't give a shit about it, because hurting Russia is more important now.
The world you knew is gone. The political realities you knew are gone. Russia broke the unspoken rule of european politics: No wars of conquest in Europe. You break that rule, the entire continent breaks you. FFS, the freakin' german GREEN PARTY is fully backing the biggest damn rearmament program in 30+ years. We're in a new world now, only it isn't the one Putin expected to create when he pulled his stunt.
Luis Martinez
For any authoritarian government, there's a danger of getting high on your own supply of propaganda.
Invading the USSR wasn't a bright idea for Hitler, and he still did it.
Jace Watson
Men and resources mean nothing if they can't be supplied. Their logistics are completely fucked in most regions. Doesn't matter how many men you have if you can't move or feed them effectively. Morale is also only going to get worse on the Russian side
Aaron Williams
I completely disagree with you and think this reasoning is retarded, but I very much appreciate the honesty. Respect.
Hudson Stewart
This.
I have absolutely no disrespect for Russians who are honest about being Russians, and honestly disagree with me. It's the ones who are arguing in bad faith who can fuck off.
Nathan Kelly
good post, but now everyone will want to join NATO this plan seems not thoroughly simulated
Adrian Nelson
Lots of people seem to think that its only possible for europe to get gas from oil. There is global supply routes, it's just gonna be more expensive and come from somewhere else.
Cameron Sullivan
"Buffer states" FOR WHAT?!
Buffer states don't mean shit in a war with NATO, because that's gonna be a nuclear war and having Belorussia does nothing to protect Moscow from getting its can of sunshine delivered.
It literally doesn't matter if there ar eNATO states on Russias border or not in cas eof an actual war between the two.
The reason Russia doesn't want them in NATO is because then Russia can't invade and subjugate them at will anymore, and because an actually succesful and prosperous democracy at their border would be impossible to hide from the russian people, and hence would be an embarassment and political danger to the corrupt kleptocrats and tyrants in the Kremlin.
Luis Parker
America and Europe are currently working into making Iran a top oil and gas exporter, gonna feel bad for Russians once this happens lol
Dylan Rodriguez
Algeria is bound to become the N°1 gas exporter to Southern Europe and you'll see that Libya situation will be solved in 6 months tops.
Jaxon Roberts
Ukraine is a very large country with a very larger army. Russia has been pullig its punches so as not to kill too many civvies or destroy the infrastructure. Its vast artillery forces could have levelled Ukraine by now. Come back in a month and see how it's going. America can't even win against barefoot, illiterate peasants.
I dream of a day where we settle our differences with Iran
>America agrees to end all sanctions, draw down military forces near Iran, and cut aid to Israel >in exchange, Iran has to get certified as NPT compliant (meaning no secret nuclear programs and safeguards on the official one), get their proxies in the region to stop killing people, and agree not to block the flow of oil out of the gulf >Iran gets western investment, America no longer has to worry about Iran, China gets cheap oil, everybody wins
It's a pipe dream, but it would be so cool.
William Stewart
Unpopular opinion: America is just way better than Russia and China, at like everything. The US breeds a better class of soldier, a better class of inventor, a better class of craftsmen, and a better class of entrepreneur. All those things combine with greedy bankers to help make the best equipped, trained, and most experienced war fighters the Earth has ever seen. You might not like the US military but that's what peak performance looks like.
>and because an actually succesful and prosperous democracy at their border would be impossible to hide from the russian people >what is Finland?
Dylan Wood
>America can't even win against barefoot, illiterate peasants. This vatnik meme again. America has won 99% of its engagements against the VC and Talibans. Handling logistics for operations at the other end of the planet is very challenging and the USAF did it flawlessly (honorable mention goes to the RAF too). Meanwhile Russians are struggling to provide oil and food to their troops just at the border.
Caleb Hill
Autistic. You wouldn't know they have any form of government as they won't talk about anything anyway.
Evan Phillips
>NVA and VC operate from North Vietnam >can't invade North Vietnam without risking a nuclear war with China >have to wait for Vietnamese forces to enter the country, and then kill them >eventually have to pull out, because waging an open ended war of attrition just to hold onto a small, irrelevant country is both unpopular and strategically senseless
The Russians are about to learn what that looks like if they try to actually occupy Ukraine.
Camden Wilson
>putin has literally made Iran better to buy oil from thn russia
Nathaniel Sanchez
Antagonizing Iran was by far Trump's biggest blunder.
Jace Campbell
Two posts almost back to back both compare Russian GDP to Italian GDP....strange....almost like that was one of the new talking points handed out at this mornings strategy meeting at Shill Corp.
Elijah Sanchez
Yes and it could nuke Ukraine too. No one is doubting that it could create unmitigated destruction, any modern nation can do that. You cannot rule a crater however, and Ukraine’s people will be further entrenched in opposition the more bloodthirsty you become. Is a smoldering vengeance-filled nation of 40 million people REALLY what you want sitting on your border? You’re not going to genocide them all and they will rebuild and really fucking hate you for generations.
Joshua Morgan
>America has won 99% of its engagements against the VC and Talibans You have like ten thousand time the resources of those people. Man for man they are better. Do the Taliban have satellites, air support, drones, sigint, casevac, tank divisions, apcs, thousands of helicopters, endless money and weapons and hundreds of millions of people? Yet you still lost because you are soft faggots.
Liam Parker
Israel will not accept until Iran recognizes this a legitimate state. Iran will not recognize for ideological reasons.
Blake Gutierrez
I wonder how Saudikeks are going to recover from this?
Austin Torres
>ou have like ten thousand time the resources of those people THE SAME THING APPLIES TO RUSSIA AND UKRAINE. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?
Jonathan Rivera
Ya seethe bitch? Imagine being much poorer than a literal shithole filled to the brim with corruption and literally zero resources.
I agree. they have to get rid of their ZOG neocon puppet ruler and not join NATO and it will all be fine.
Ryder Robinson
The bigger problem was the memory of the Korean War, when bringing military operations up to North Korea triggered full scale Chinese intervention.
Levi Rogers
they will try to stage another 9/11 tier attack and get us to invade them again
Elijah Reyes
No it doesn't. They have similar armies and the population disparity is not huge. Also Ukraine is receiving outside help.
Jace Rivera
Something that can be ignored and downplayed a hell of a lot easier than a democratic and prosperous Ukraine.
Christian Cruz
>everybody wins
Except Russia. Because fuck Putin.
Grayson Allen
Softness has nothing to do with it, fighting against guerilla and insurgency is extremely difficult no matter how great your technology is Which is why comparing Afghanistan or even Vietnam to Ukraine is completely fucking retarded The closest comparison as far as recent decades go is Iraq and it was a complete success in almost every single regard
Colton Gutierrez
Viets received a lot of help from you as well
Carter Cook
Surely this point of Russian GDP compared to Italy has never been made before on Any Forums. Must be a talking point from Langley right?
Joshua Rivera
This. Finland was non-aligned in the Cold War and has direct connections to all the wealth of Scandinavians. They're not even Slavs.
Ukrainians are Slavs. Literally not only on their side, it was a part of the fucking USSR. And the agrarian part. They border Pooland, Whatvakia, Paprika and Moldova, the place Latin Americans go to to feel better about their economy. If Ukraine did better than its former industrial overlord simply by not being run by an autocratic maniac, that would fire a hell of a lot of Russian brain neurons.
Josiah Ramirez
Estonians have the lowest gdp of the three, if that was you point.
Kayden Brown
We'll ask the CIA to coordinate another sale of medium-range ballistic missiles from China to Saudi Arabia.
Connor Sanders
NATO and the EU are going to be fucking flooding weapons into there continously. This is gonna make the the Soviet field trip to Afghanistan look tame by comparison. FFS, Ukraine has like 2.5 times the population of Afghanistan back in '79, and the Red Army was in rather better shape than they're now.
Kevin Lee
Do Poles see themselves as slavs too?
Ryan Torres
Ukraine bans opposition parties and critical TV stations and has ACTUAL NAZIS in its army. It's a ZOG puppet state.
Jordan King
lay off the copium vatnik
Justin Harris
Yeah, sofft faggots. Like the Red Army was in Afghanistan, where they lost despite literally killing or displacing like a third of the entire population over ten years of grinding attrittion to no real strategic effect.
Newsflash, idiot: Being a hard man and warcriming a lot doesn't actually win insurgency wars.
Jaxon Taylor
i think this is true right now
the only Achilles heel is morale and political limitations
america is a democracy, the american public will never accept an endless war like a totalitarian regime, most americans arent psychos either so any conflict that blurs the line between civilian and combatant is going to take its toll on troop morale and they will take that shit home
>The closest comparison as far as recent decades go is Iraq and it was a complete success in almost every single regard Mate, I'm British and we created and destroyed nations like Iraq in a morning.
Jaxon Stewart
>They border Pooland, Whatvakia, Paprika and Moldova
The others see themselves as Slavs as well but there's still a wide gap between folks like Poles and Czechs who speak a Slavic language and the OGs in tracksuits spitting sunflower seeds over the pavement. You can separate them out somewhat while Russians and Ukrainians are so similar in so many aspects even fucking Putin believed they would just kiss and make up in a few days to go back to the days of old.
Cameron Kelly
take your meds
Ryder Reyes
>americans arent psychos Tell that to the posters on this board that crave to genocide all chinks.
Joshua Green
Yeah well, that train just left the station fucko.
You decided to go in, and now you're stuck with the shitshow. And your only options now are to turn tail and lose, or to spend the next five, ten, twenty years getting yourself bled white by the continous insurgency financed, armed and trained by NATO, and then turn tail and lose.
Putin's decided to ram a cactus up Russia's ass, and now you're stuck with the only choice of either pulling it out to a lot of pain and screaming or stuffing it in further to even more pain and screaming.
Aiden Cox
ffs effective recon is a must for any army that wants to avoid getting cluster fucked in the cluster fucked fog of war. Sending in shit tiered recon force gets you exactly shit tiered result.
Isaiah Martin
>ACTUAL NAZIS…ZOG Wow, if these two can be united under a literally Jewish President, what they face must be really awful.
Dominic Smith
Uh huh. Except nto for the last election and nobody other than Putin shills gives a shit about a couple hudnred wannabe-nazi fuckwits running around Donbas anymore. Well, other than hoping they'll be fucking up a few Russians before getting themselves killed. Russians and neo-nazis killing each other, sounds like a win-win.
PS: ZOGs and nazis hate each other. Get your shitty conspiracy theories sorted out, vatnik.
Grayson Baker
I mean, we're not denying or ashamed that that's what we are ethnically (*cough* like Czechs *cough*), but we don't care much about "the Slavic world", panslavism is Russian imperialism, our ambition is to be a proper European nation, not have Slovenians or whatever hail us as the Slavest of all Slavs.
Parker Clark
How is not being in constant war by a totalitarian government an achiles heel? I must not understand your point.
Ryder Turner
Yes, which is why you should understand that an insurgency is basically unwinnable without killing a majority of the population and replacing them with your own culture. Two million Afghanis were killed over ten years —that is 15% of its TOTAL population— and still they fought on and the Soviets fled. Do you think Russia is ready to kill 2.5 million Ukrainians and resettle it with her own people? I don’t.
Ayden Morales
>Do you think Russia is ready to kill 2.5 million Ukrainians and resettle it with her own people? I don’t. Macron does after spending 90 minutes on the phone with Putin. For what it's worth.
Joseph Robinson
works for the police
Christian Flores
oh they will win alright it's just that they will win in the same way the Soviets "won" the Winter War
Jace Howard
Alternative theory: there are like.. 20 people on this board actually posting full paragraphs and the same thing is repeated on serveral threads because that's how Any Forums works..
Brandon Reyes
He's an actual 11b, but like the typical infantryman, he's a fucking retard. Guy didn't even know that NATO never promised to not let others in. The open door policy is a foundational value of NATO. Guy is a retard and doesn't do his research.
Logan Butler
their military reformist got kicked in 2012. 2014 still looked alright, but here we are, almost a decade later, and we're looking at a circus.
Sebastian Hall
kremlin shills have gone full on delusional
Camden Martin
Russia is going to get bogged down and rack up casualties. Then they are going to pivot and wipe Mariupol off the map claiming they succeeded with denazification and annexing Donetsk and Luhansk.
Kayden Sanchez
>It literally bragging that Russia's strategy is to use human wave tactics for conscripted young people Holy shit Russians are so fucking retarded
Hunter Gray
Likely yes.
Nicholas Bennett
US used the same thing in Afghnistan, use afghan army as shields, US soldiers hiding behind afghan army.
Easton Wood
You fucking triple retard! Zelensky and Macron were willing to give Putin legally binding guarantees that Ukraine would never enter NATO, but he invaded anyway because "muh Russian Empire!" Now you have a shitshow 10X worse than Iraq on your hands, Ukraine will hate you forever, your economy is collapsing, your soldiers are miserably dying, and the world is laughing. Go fuck yourself, cocksucker!
Dylan Ortiz
The only reason US was able to keep death count in the low thousands was because 70000 afghan soldiers died
Russia will basically use the same strategy, build up a pro-Russia ukranian military to fight the seperatists
Carson Nelson
I saw a twitter thread by some Russia autist academic that explained this quite well. Russia started its army reforms earlier, in 2010. A guy named Serdyukov (checken his wiki) started a huge reform program aimed at killing army corruption. This was popular with the people but very impopular with the oligarchs making tons of money on fucking the Russian army.
As we know, the people always lose from oligarchs in Russia. So in 2014 they kicked him out and got Shoigu in. He started reversing anti-corruption measures and returned the army to its decrepit state. Which we see today. Shoigu runs his position as a political survivor, not as a reformer.
Tldr: in 20
Owen Bailey
you fucking dumpasses NATO been doing that fucking months before war.
Zachary Perry
keen on that tldr, its interesting stuff
Ayden Smith
youtu.be/qC-xLCgbThM A nato-backed puppet started an artillery battle with Russians that led to war this is starting to sound familiar.
Jeremiah Rivera
nothing new, russia also got fucked in 1994 in the first Chechen war en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War Terrible strategy as well a entire brigade moved up and was left behind encircled, they all got fucked.
LMAO. It's a neofuedal oligarchy. Trump was an Israel loving, controlled piece of shit but he actually would've won in 2020, but the billionaire class decided they wanted Biden for whatever reason and got their pet glownigger slaves to rig the election.
That's a promotional pic from an 80s Japanese tv show.
Noah Brooks
You're going to have to boot the Israel lobby out of the US government for that to happen. So basically what I'm saying is that'll never happen.
Adam Powell
>still won’t show the missile >still holding trash pretending it’s a trophy Embarrassing
Jaxson Peterson
Source? How hard could it be to drive some trucks to the front line?
Wyatt Murphy
>I dont believe in fairytales about ukrainian Nazis or genocide of russians they have a self proclaimed neo nazi batallion they made a nazi collaborator war criminal a national hero even condemned by nato
These are facts, not fairytales
Tyler Thomas
You have very poor reading comprehension if that is how you understood that post, but you're an American (I can tell by the way you type) so that is to be expected. The Russian K/D is probably around 3:1 right now so I wouldn't gloat so much.
Jaxon Turner
>This isn't WWII where you can just throw men's lives at the issue until it is resolved. Well, we're going to find out if that is still possible.
I've heard this comparison for years. It is extra funny when you realize the Italian economy beats Russia just by selling luxury goods and tourism. Lul.
Angel Gutierrez
you're also forgetting the absolutely massive bombing campaigns that killed millions of civilians or so-called "unarmed combatants" but also effectively pacified urban areas where causalities otherwise would have been intolerable
William Perez
No it's not. Muh k/d. The ukies are topping the leaderboard unless you're counting dead civvies who are non combatants. Who are you trying to convince here? Why bother? We can't influence anything from Any Forums. Keep lying if it makes you feel good but reality will hit you in the nuts soon enough. Your "army" is running out of fuel and ammo because 666D Putin didn't plan for an extended campaign. You can thank Xi bear for pushing the invasion date to mud season as well. The ukies are starting their counter offensive now, with aircraft donated from EU providing cover and their main armored and artillery force that were hidden all this while. I suggest you leave Russia soon. It's going to be Civil War 2.0 there soon.
Carson Hernandez
Russians are genuinely traumatized from the Wehrmacht rolling in in 41. That's why they have this obsession with buffer states in the nuclear age. If they could they'd have buffer states to the Atlantic coast.
Russian attempts to present a mask of stoic manliness are just a way to hide the fear that rules them. The fear that one day the West will push them behind the Urals forever.
Evan Campbell
I'm in the US so I have nothing to fear. However, you seem pretty nervous. No need to spill your beans. Globohomo is dying. Take it easy. All you have to do is sit back and watch as the tranny world order implodes from its own hubris. The sanctions will only harden Russia as it has Iran and North Korea. The difference is that Russia is many times larger and has been preparing for this scenario.
this isn't hard you are a literal beneficiary of globohomo just by being able to post on this website freely i guarantee you have a nicer house than 90% of eastern euros posting here without worrying it's going to take a arty shell
bitching about trannies and homos is a rich overinformed westerner problem where his internet addiction makes him forget he doesn't have to fight to survive like everywhere else that doesn't have the time to discuss tranny/homo rights. literally talk to anyone who has escaped war torn shitholes as a refugee or even crime ridden ones. trannies on tv are the least of your issue when you get to watch childhood friends die the next day
> meme response > you are a literal beneficiary of globohomo Correct. > literally talk to anyone who has escaped war torn shitholes as a refugee or even crime ridden ones Globohomo creates the pretext for war. The dirty war we are currently waging in Syria is in defense of values such as democracy and human rights. That's globohomo at it's worst. It's the global cultural/media arm of the American empire. Imposing trannyism on poor countries is only part of a bigger picture.
Josiah Cook
There was some aboslute KINO war photography at Georgia
im talking strictly from a military standpoint, an endless war would be fucking shit we all agree on that, thats the point, a place like north korea or china would probably send fuckers to vietnam or afghanistan as long as their economies allowed it
i said MOST americans
yeah yeah whatever you say schizo, regardless of whether you think its a democracy or not, politicians have to ATLEAST try to get people on their side, thats my point, if a war goes on long enough and becomes unpopular a candidate advocating for ending it can ride that shit all the way to the white house
it happened before, it will happen again
Matthew Jenkins
This. They made it look like they were kitted out when they got sent to Syria. Looking good infront of a Camera or the odd chance they bumped into US troops.
They are shit, just numbers and nukes.
Andrew Fisher
>whatever you say schitzo
I'm sorry you're naive and still in lullaby-land in regards to your views of our gutted republic. The American oligarchy doesn't need the publics approval for anything.
Propaganda is legal, if the ruling hands in the taxpayer-to-private money funneling scheme that is our economy want war they'll get it. They'll fake both the governmental cry for approval and the subsequent public approval and continue on unabated.
You speak excellent English, friend. :). Better than a lot of native speakers I know
Adrian Martin
>but we really have to overthrow Kievan government. Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies If they want to join your enemies... they're already your enemies. Dumbass. Enjoy the occupation.
Noah Collins
They were trying to get the ANA to stop being retarded so they could be left alone for five minutes without collapsing. Turns out you can't fix that level of retardation.
Landon Gomez
You forgot the Tomcats.
Colton Diaz
>zog puppet state. >Nazi army
Jose Hernandez
did you not understand my point? at the end of the day, at some point in the political system some guy needs public approval to get anywhere, and they can use anti-war rhetoric to get that approval
it doesnt matter if you dont think this is a democracy, that fact still stands and many american politicians many times have been elected in part with the promise they will pull out of some dumb over extended conflict
and in two cases, vietnam and afghanistan, it led to america losing a war
>we really have to overthrow Kievan government. Ukrainians want to become a NATO-member state = they want to join our enemies
well, putin violated the Budapest Memorandum, of course they want to join NATO, they scrapped their nuke with the promise their territorial integrity would be respected, putin broke that promise, they no longer have an effective deterrence against russian aggression, NATO is their only realistic option
Tyler Martinez
what? Before the invasion Zelensky literally affirmed his wish to join EU and NATO. Probably pushed Putin over the edge. I've heard theories that Putin felt it necessary because of Zelensky's isn't at all controllable like Poroshenko.
That was the strategy for the north in the US civil war. It helped but it didn't win them the war against the better trained southern soldiers. What won them the war was logistics. More railroads & more industrialization. The south by using slaves as a workforce had less incentive for industry.
Josiah Fisher
Russians were going for a Crimea 2.0, but there was real resistance and the northern front is shit. Expect another couple days of retreat/regrouping or more airdrops like in Hostomel, the first airdrop with 1500 troops in this conflict. Russians should get this job done in the next month or so.
Evan Martinez
He cute.
Josiah Hernandez
I hope a Ukrainian kills you with a claw hammer
Anthony Reed
For the most part this is the 'new stuff'. They're using and losing latest revision T-72 and T-90s, and I'm sure if you went through enough photos you'd see some AK-12s. I know I've already seen people point out mags belonging to them. But this is the thing, most of Russia's most modern equipment, the fully 'new stuff' rather than the retrofits, only exists on paper or barely fucking works in the 30 units they can afford of it.
Adam Morales
>r, tell me what exactly the plan here is 10 years down the line Russiana are afro-americas of the white race. And like afro-americans they can't plan ahead and they can only chimp out: we wuz kings (USSR) annn sheeet
Jack Reyes
>The reason Russia doesn't want them in NATO is because then Russia can't invade and subjugate them at will anymore This is true reason. Russians do like this maybe even without conscious thought, but back in the mind sits this true reason.
Jayden Reed
No, I'm actually a top. Now get your zoomer eceleb shit off my board before I clap those cheeks.
Camden Scott
it's like geopolitical domestic violence and russia is the wife beater
Chase Gutierrez
>We have to keep control and keep buffer states between us and NATO. >We have to Why, exactly do 'you all' 'have to' do anything? What makes you believe you need to fight and die for Russian mafiosos playing government. If an increasing number of nations want to voluntarily join the western world, why stop them? Is your nation's government worth preserving if by preserving it means invading its neighbors with military force?
Dylan Smith
russia has had troops on those borders for like 500 years user
Elijah Nguyen
afghanistan might be a bad comparison as the topography is mountainous while ukraine is mostly flat plains. also afghanistans fight was with an us vs outsider mentality and while i don’t want to make this political or religious muslims are how do you say very uncooperative with westerners in many ways and they make our most hardcore christian fundamentalist look like liberal feminist trannys. ukraines fight is less us vs them and more of the political elite using their populace like puppets and them theyselves being used as a NATO western puppet. while russia is bad the west neither has ukraines best interests in mind. frankly speaking its sad how the ukrainian people are being used. they really could’ve prevented all of this if their leaders actually cared for them and didn’t give in to NATO&Western aggression like a puppy.
Levi Ramirez
Sasha, you are stupid Russian. Do you really want to spend next 50 years failing to indoctrinate East Ukrainians to love Russia and hate West Ukrainians?
Brandon Turner
>Putin seems to have a pretty strong support back home Uhh should we tell him?
Austin Lee
The US obliterated 200+ slavs in Syria without using boots on the ground
Jonathan Barnes
I’ve been telling everyone that US vs Russia would be a slaughter fest ever since we shwacked those Wagner mercs in Syria. Everyone always said “but muh Russian artillery, muh ECM, muh waves of tanks” This entire invasion has been incredibly satisfying to watch. Even I didn’t expect the Russians to be THIS incompetent though.
>Russian military leadership takes note of this and begins military reforms and modernization programs You're forgetting some greentext user >2012 -Russian oligarchs and cronies are pissed because reforms are affecting business >Oust said reformer and install Sergey Shoygu who turns the corrupt faucet on again >Vatniks proceed to fuck themselves up again
Xavier Gray
Russian GDP is closer to South Korea, we are just being nice comparing them to another similar european mafia state.
Grayson Perry
Not true user, there were several crayon eaters and chair force observers calling down the strikes.
Ryan Stewart
>Pooland, Whatvakia, Paprika and Moldova, the place Latin Americans go to to feel better about their economy. KEK
Luke Morales
Viva la Paprika!
Evan Hill
the only thing stopping Russians from getting raped by drones is their nukes
Jace Diaz
again how many times we need to say this
if you remove the 2015 ACTUAL usage of their military syria and somewhat libya the rest is basicly russia throwing out their conscripts with basic shit tier equip in as cannon fodder thats literally it someone posted a link few days ago showcasing the numbers of conscripts of 2020 it was close to a million 50.000 of which were on vdv vsk spetznaz in general there is no point on comparing the russian way of fighting to anything else historically speaking they are ok with high losses
Kayden Watson
I’m honestly starting to doubt their nukes are even functional anymore
Charles Ortiz
So you not russian then Why are you shilling for you conquerors
The only reason you would get mad at someone for joining a defensive alliance is if you had plans to fuck with them in future.
We're going to bleed you dry for the next few years, Ivan. After that you'll be slaves to the Chinese and everything that Dugin wrote about will be nothing more than a fairytale in your heads.
Dylan Diaz
>america is a democracy Only in a technical sense, popular will is statistically non relevant to political action. >the american public will never accept an endless war We did, oh yes we never stopped grumbling and complaining but we did accept it. It was just a fact of life and sons went to fight the same wars their fathers fought. >most americans arent psychos Lol. Just lol.
Brayden Roberts
>North Korea You mean shitty hermit kingdom one of whose major sources of income is literally throwing a tantrum until UN gives it pocket change?
Joseph Barnes
That engagement against Wagner which was the largest blue-on-red pretty much ever is wild if you read up on it. Absolute slaughter of the Wagner units with barely a scratch on the Americans and company.
Adrian Bailey
hitler 2.0 in the making
Jaxson Johnson
Its the same map from three days ago
Adrian Robinson
Where's my PASGT you fucks
Leo Hall
, Invasion of Ukraine >>[HEADCANON] How's the Ghost of Kyiv doing?
>build up forces on your neighbors border >wonder why your neighbors think you're trying to invade and suddenly asks to be let into a collective defense alliance along with the rest of the continent
Charles Myers
You guys have no idea the amount of manpower it takes to keep a war machine going. America is built around war. We will never lose until the Chinese catch up and pass us in 3781.
