As a first gen Slavic-American (half Ukrainian ), I have spent a lot of the recent days learning about the conflict from 2014 from the beginning and in more depth. I have spent a lot of time talking to my father about it too who has been invested from the beginning and who has contacts in Ukraine and Russia. He not only grew up in Ukraine but has traveled there numerous times in the past years (I have also been there myself many times over the years, including Russia). But he has painted a picture for me about the conflict more nuanced than I have seen on this board before or that I was aware of myself. I must share this new information with you now.
When the conflict happened in 2013 (Maiden) Ukraine did not have a functioning military in ability or deployable numbers. The regular Ukrainian forces were practically nonexistent and the equipment they had was in total disarray and literally rusting in the open sun. The regular military existed but it was in no way prepared to put down separatists in the east or take any actions against Crimea or protect against further Ukrainian territorial losses. This created an immediate power gap and recruiting problem for the Ukrainian military that it could not fill because no normal Ukrainian at the time would join the Ukrainian military on some notion to go harass his quite literal brothers in the east; it just doesn't add up and people don't sign up for those kinds of reasons anyway.
When this vacuum occurred, multiple oligarchs (Soros, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, others) stepped in to fund and promote ultra-nationalist, explicitly anti-Russian, Neo-Nazi militias like Azov, Tornado, Dniper. Again, something the regular military could not do or was not willing to do (the reaons being obvious). These militia groups grew fast because of their sensational recruitment tactics, were exceptionally armed, and where beyond the conduct limits of a regular military. Because of these things, they were (and still are) particularly vicious in the Donbass well beyond what a regular military would be allowed to do, hence the motivation to hide, ignore, and obscure their actions to this day by the Ukrainian government.
These unregulated battalion groups regularly shelled completely civilian targets and repressed, robbed, kidnapped, and disappeared civilians who were known or suspected to be pro-russian. Again, these are things a normal military is not allowed to do. there is no doubt however that Kiev knew about all of these things but turned a blind eye. A lot of these disappearances and backwoods-style summary executions account for the numerous mass graves already found and still being regularly exhumed in the Donbass. The total death in the Donbass - the civilian death - has exceeded 13,000 people since 2014.
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Grayson Gonzalez
What I did not know, and what my father has made clear to me, is that these battalions, and their leaders, hold immense influence over the Ukrainian government because. They were more powerful and dangerous than the actual Ukrainian military - not in-part because they are not bound to the same conduct rules and have used literal terrorism repeatedly. They have pressured both Poroshenko and Zelensky to increasingly pursue explicit anti-russian policies (banning of the language, Russian news stations, Russian cultural institutions). This I did not know and makes Putin's charge of "de-nazification" make a lot more sense. There is also no doubt that the general Ukrainian public also does not know about many of these crimes and only seens the nationalist/patriotic side of things.
One would do well to remember that both Poroshenko and Zelensky promised to de-escalate the conflicts (Zelensky ran on that issue) but has failed and one would be why to ask "why" this happened twice. The takeaway is that these groups are not mere pawns but hold serious sway over Ukrainian politicians. Once you understand the measures they have gone to in the east, the picture becomes a lot more clear. The Ukrainian government has made its bed with actual Nazis and not in a trivial manner either. The situation is actually worse than I previously had understood.
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Jason Howard
Иди нa хyй дayн co cвoeй пынинcкoй хyитoй.
Chase Hughes
So you don’t speak/read/write Ukrainian, have never been there, don’t have friends there, don’t own property there, and don’t know the history, but you’re Ukrainian? Nah. You’re an American.
T. Actual European immigrant
Christian Mitchell
> some notion to go harass his quite literal brothers in the east
LOL. Okay fake Ukrainian. Yes, no Ukrainian would want to stop Russia-armed separatists who are being funded by Putin to rip off a huge chunk of their nation.
Can you read? I literally wrote in my first post that I have been there numerous times in the recent few years, including Russia. Do you want to see my UNHCR card or my soviet birth certificate?
Nope. Africans play that card, everyone else can too.
Thomas Myers
Please don't be a retard and dox yourself.
Jack Garcia
Real American here. You wrote a bunch of stuff, and I'm not gonna take the time to read it or anything, because I don't really care about your country or what happens to it. But I hope you and your family stay safe.
>not realizing all prominent Neo Nazi groups are tools of the jews
I'm guessing you didn't see heckin Charlottesville under BASED Richard Spencer coming either
Grayson Ramirez
It was a good read. You’re missing out. Soros is probably creating Nazis in US for the same purpose
Aiden Rogers
That was the biggest glowop ever
Isaac Mitchell
Blah blah blah nigger didn't read. I could never advise you to fight, but ultimately I don't know if Americans are for the whole war thing anymore. Especially against such a careless enemy. The Azov thing is a bad look too
Hunter Lee
Хapкaчeвcкaя фeня c тoбoй в aмepикy мигpиpoвaлa? Eбaнaя мaкaкoвa шepcть лoбкoвaя, в гyгл тpaнcлeйтe зaбaнили?
Grayson Scott
NVM I read it. You guys gotta do something about them before Ukraine ALSO gets hit with war crimes.
Noah Reyes
Is the CIA involved in the Ukraine a lot?
Was that 'Maidan' revolution really a coup by the US? What's the proof of this?
Logan Bell
A strange comment, thanks? I'm just as American as you bro. I'm more patriotic and inline with American values than most Americans are. Imagine my shock seeing there are more Communists and Marxists in the US than there are in Russia. Strange world.
Eli Gomez
This is all correct, which is why Kiev is a diversion and the real goal of the offensive is to wipe out those battalions as quickly as possible. Once they're ground beef and no longer a military/political force in the conflict a lot of Ukrainian cities and regular troops will surrender provided Russians don't go scorched Earth. It's already happening in a number of Eastern cities and the surrendered "martyrs" from snake island summed it up pretty well.
Joseph Lopez
Totally agreed there. We all learned the same values and everyone somehow grew up into different worlds. Totally bizarre. Fin
Levi Rivera
Makes sense Shills from all IP ranges are now looking at you. Being a shill for the glow niggers, paid or free, is severe small penis energy
Logan Kelly
>I am from Ukraine >Maiden
Go fuck yourself Ivan
Mason Hernandez
It's not really a conspiracy given the number of leaked conversations (google "Fuck the EU"), and US Senators like McCain openly flying to Ukraine and egging on protesters in the streets, followed by the new Ukrainian government running their candidates and appointees by the US State Department.
Still doesn’t exactly excuse the absolute retarded strategies and tactics that a “superpower” like Russia is using.
How many more unsupported paratroopers and transport planes they going to keep let get absolutely decimated? I mean I know Russia is all about the meat grinder but I expected smarter.
Andrew Lopez
So why don't russia monkey stop the invasion into kiev and rest of ukraine and just hold crime, donbass and luhansk for himself/his people
just defend those new territories with a new border , problem solved
Nuland hand picked the government after the coup. There are recordings proving it where she says FUCK THE EU.
Gavin King
So Ukraine is on track to be the first post-WWII National Socialist state? The Brown Shirts and other paramilitary are essential in that process. Slava Ukraïna!
It was subversion... and just human inertia. Only those of us who study history and care about the values of this country care enough to preserve those values, they atrophy otherwise. Everyone else? Reed in the wind.
Ryder Jenkins
If you could actually read he was agreeing with you Too bad you're both retarded shills
Dominic Peterson
Yeah, I pretty much already knew all this, thanks. Now go back in the kitchen and make us some varenyky.
Carter Reed
This delusional pic...
Jace Martin
Cuz its not. It's some boomertard alex jones talking point, based on some james bond tier idea that Putin is purposelly holding his forces back because his special forces unit is on a secret nazi hunting quest to liberate the Ukrainians from themselves, and all will be well once the Ukrainians surrender and just let the Russians have their way, Very cringe .
Jace Gomez
> The Ukrainian government has made its bed with actual Nazis and not in a trivial manner either. The situation is actually worse than I previously had understood.
Thank you for visiting my friend. I hope you and your family well. If you were from the area or have visited you should have been able to see and feel the corruption.
Biden and Co are doing whatever they can to get Russia into a war. The US is the proxy to get Russia into war The people who control the US want to collapse Russia to take over their money, goods, and people. After the US caused chaos and famine in Ukraine, they started a color revolution and installed their own puppets into the Ukrainian gubbamint. Once they had their puppets in place they began bribing everyone with "foreign aid" food, goods, and of course military aid. This was a bribe to be able to park munitions and SAMs and other toys in Ukraine to get closer to Moscow and Putin to hopefully lure him into war. After the serious monetary "foreign aid" started rolling into Ukraine, the corrupt DC politicians got greedy and started figuring out ways to funnel the foreign aid back into their pockets. this led to more corruption, more backroom deals, more under table contracts. The corrupt politicians started figuring out Ukraine could be their playplace and not only parked their military armament there, but also BioLabs, servers they used to run black ops and corruption thru. The whole deal started out to use the US as a proxy to get Putin to go to war, and ended up with sloppy DC politicians with their hands in every cookie jar in Ukraine they could find.
