Do you consider trans girl who look like girls but are visibly trans girls none the less, or really gay guys...

do you consider trans girl who look like girls but are visibly trans girls none the less, or really gay guys? I'm not talking about hons or people that don't try to pass, more like girls who dress right and put effort in but still just look clocky

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no I don’t

you don't consider them girls? even if they're cute?

if they’re clocky they aren’t cute
well it depends because I have superhuman clock skill and even hunter is clocky to me
so I’ll treat them like girls but deep down I don’t feel like they are cause I know too much

good thing no one cares about how you feel

ugly/masculine women are still women

who asked

Girls

How can you say this as a boymoder

easily when you don’t agree with most of the ideas here

Even when you know they used to be guys?

I consider all trans women as women.

boymoders are all tainted with internal transphobia and jealousy.
literally LITERALLY hate us because they ain't us, basically.

yes

if they look like girls they are girls. but i have a pretty high standard. they can be clocky but they still have to be beyond that threshold where i see them as female

Cisf here, I hang out in irl lgbt spaces so I know passoids, slightly-clocky twinkhons and girlmoding hons. Most are transbians. For passoids, they pass. For slightly-clocky twinkhons, they look no different from the type of cis women who are born more naturally masculine, there's an overlap there. For girlmoding hons, they may not physically pass, but at least the ones I know exude naturally feminine mannerisms and behaviour, which causes me even instinctively to see them as women.

Basically, if you want to successfully trigger people's "this is a woman" monkeybrain instinct, you need something to go off. It's politically incorrect for me to say "if you are a girlmoder hon, you need a feminine air" since that reinforces gender roles, but it's true. Of course this doesnt matter if you are a passoid, I know passoid tomboys and of course my instinct is still "woman". For twinkhons, you almost pass and I'm sure you are already trying your best, so that's more than enough. Your sexual preference is not something I gender-code, there are very-femme cis lesbians out there after all.

People here have called me transphobic for saying that the instinct side of me has trouble seeing masc-presenting unpassing MtFs (with extremely misogynistic "i'm malebrained and male-socialised so i'm better than cis women" views and male-coded views) as women, but I will be honest and say it is indeed a struggle for me to see those as women. In my irl experience however, every trans woman is better than that, I'm sure it's just a small minority online.

>do you consider trans girl girl

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I see twink-hon's as girls, same as just clocky trannies. They read fem, they register fem in my brain. Also they need at least a faggy/tranny voice.

Like seeing "femboys" sounds like plain men, makes my logical side go "oh yah that's a dude". I see more boy, than girl there all of a sudden.
Hopefully people dont just see my twink-hon visage and think fag.

I consider trans as 3rd gender, and by calling her girl I don't really mean it.

trips for truth, desu. not passing doesn't invalidate you from she/her pronouns in my book but i really do think a LARGE part of passing is attitude.
maybe transgenderism is a spectrum in itself, but i really don't know how you're trans if this isn't in some way instinctual.

i thought the idea of transition was "finally being yourself"
i was putting on airs to appear masculine before, now i just do me and people find that feminine. i would get called "she" even before transition.

it's probably different for everyone but i do not think you're wrong that there's a "feminine air" that needs to come naturally.
if it's not coming naturally at all i do kind of wonder about motive.

the worst kind of person

I've wondered about that, a spectrum may be it. Perhaps some transfem people are born with brains that are more feminised than other transfems. After all, transfem brains are naturally more feminine than cis male brains, but there is still a variance.

To use another example- most FtMs I know here have a "masculine air/mindset" and most also physically pass, although my sample size is quite small. Yet, there are at least two transmasc enbies who physically pass on T by now, but have feminine airs. I dont think it's accurate to say they are faketrans, after all, they seem very happy to physically masculinise and they dont regret it, but they likely cant relate to "i'm finally the masculine male self I always was".

You're right that for most trans people, there seems to be an instinctive air that comes off naturally rather than seeming learned/deliberate though.

I think most of just seethe at ourselves when we see passoids so it's transphobia in the sense that I have literally developed a fear for seeing other transwoman irl but it doesn't make me hate anyone but myself more I'm glad you can live your life and be happy

of course

i would treat like a woman anyone who at least try to be one
but for me to naturally see you as a woman, you need to pass some sort of threshold of femininity i guess, doesn't mean you need to be 100% a passer, i've known girl who looked visibly trans but my brain always went "yep that's a woman"