1. If gender and sex are different, isn't gender just a list of stereotypes? If not, does it have some objective basis like how genitals determine sex? 2. If gender has nothing to do with body parts, what differentiates men and women? 3. Do you believe that all it takes for someone to be a gender is to declare that they are that gender? 4. Do you think gender fluidity is real (i.e. someone who periodically changes gender)? 5. Do you think it's morally wrong to treat trans women differently from cis women? For example, wanting to date a cis woman but not a trans woman.
I know it's Any Forums but I am 100% asking these questions in good faith.
>1 It is just a list of stereotypes >2 Um Stereotypes, again, probably. Women act differently and are treated differently and stuff >3 That's how it works yes >4 Sure, why not >5 Umm morally wrong?.. idk. I guess it depends. If you're being an asshole about it then it is wrong but if you're not, like in your example, I think it is okay.
>mtf
Nolan Green
If gender has nothing to do with body then why do transgenders change their body? checkmate
Nathan Evans
>checkmate Not really.. I'm changing my body because I want my body to be more fem and stuff because I just like feminine bodies more. Also I'd prefer to live my life as a woman socially and for that I need people to see me as a woman and for that I need to look like one which I want anyway so yeah
Nathaniel James
>1. If gender and sex are different, isn't gender just a list of stereotypes? Gender is what you want your body to look like and to be treated accordingly, masculine women and feminine men still exist and some of them are trans. > If not, does it have some objective basis like how genitals determine sex? >2. If gender has nothing to do with body parts, what differentiates men and women? The brain is sexually dimorphic, trans people's brains look like the opposite sex when scanned. >3. Do you believe that all it takes for someone to be a gender is to declare that they are that gender? No but that's easier than scanning every single trans person. We haven't narrowed down the specific parts of the brain that cause gender identity yet anyway. >4. Do you think gender fluidity is real (i.e. someone who periodically changes gender)? Not really >5. Do you think it's morally wrong to treat trans women differently from cis women? For example, wanting to date a cis woman but not a trans woman. Post transition, trans women are functionally infertile women with an intersex condition. Not exactly the same but not that different either. >but I am 100% asking these questions in good faith >TRAs
Nicholas Sanchez
dumb effortpost incoming (1/2) >1 Stereotypes are part of it but not all of it. There's a thing called gender dysphoria. People who don't have it have a very hard time believing it exists, but it does. Fact of the matter is, as much as the left wishes it weren't true -- as much as I, as one of them, wish it weren't true -- secondary sexual characteristics are real, and are anatomical, physiological, and psychological, and these inform the formation of gender stereotypes, which are nonetheless exaggerated, oppressive, and unjust, don't get me wrong, but they do have a basis. Dysphoria is the strong feeling you have the wrong primary *and/or secondary* sexual characteristics, sometimes as strong as an anorexic woman's feeling that she's fat and needs to lose weight. More specifically, some dysphoria can be socially or sexually motivated, but some runs deeper. There's a thing called a body image. Many transphobes will deny having one to make their point. This is ridiculous. Almost everyone has a body image, they're just almost all aligned to their true sex. Some people have a body image of the opposite sex. Some people also, or separately, have an inner voice of the opposite sex. Not like a voice in your head -- not a foreign one anyway. But like hearing your own thoughts, the way many people do, but when you hear them, you get the inexplicable impression the person thinking is a woman, similar to how you can sometimes tell the same when you hear an actual voice. Therefore... >2 ... this may be too exclusive a definition, I'm not sure, but in my opinion, gender is the "physical" sex of the subjectively experienced inner self, as distinct from that of the actual outer self. >3 They don't even have to declare it. They just have to experience it. I, for one, am not declaring, anywhere but here and to my therapist, that I'm a woman. I might never. But I've embraced my feelings about it. That's enough for me.
Aaron Evans
>4 Maybe. I think there might be two types: repressing nonbinaries who switch at high frequency because they can't accept that their real feelings are simply somewhere in-between, which I'm pretty sure exist; and genderfluid people whose inner selves' conceptualized sexes actually change over a much longer period due to neurobio changes, which I'm not sure exist, maybe they do. >5 No, not really, but I don't have a strong opinion about that. I know being treated exactly like a woman by all of society is very important to many of us, though I can't say I entirely understand why. I choose to respect that by not *authoritatively* claiming it's morally acceptable to treat us differently. Your example, though, specifically, I will emphatically vindicate. That's just a part of a person's sexuality. Sexuality is not a value judgement, and being a part of someone else's life is a privilege, not a right. Failing to understand this is how we got incels.
Mason Howard
Is TRA a pejorative term or something? I thought it meant "trans rights activist"
Grayson James
It does but it's used exclusively by terfs
Joseph Campbell
Do you think it's maybe meant to be evocative of "MRA?"
Isaiah Williams
Wouldn't be the first time they did something like that
Lincoln Gray
1. no lmfao 2. a switch in the brain 3. nope 4. my guess is 30% it's real 70% extreme mental illness 5. not really, we obviously have different experiences than most cis women (most of us are extremely traumatized), plus obviously we don't look exactly like ciswomen and are 100% infertile.
>1. If gender and sex are different, isn't gender just a list of stereotypes? If not, does it have some objective basis like how genitals determine sex? it is, gender and gender expectations exist because of breeding propaganda >2. If gender has nothing to do with body parts, what differentiates men and women? all the questions are about gender expectations and it's very simple thing, it's the expectations people towards someone for looking a certain way. gender, to me, is what people see you as look below, sex is just penis and vagina. >3. Do you believe that all it takes for someone to be a gender is to declare that they are that gender? gender is chosen by others depending on how they perceive you, for example women tend to see gay men as one of them >4. Do you think gender fluidity is real (i.e. someone who periodically changes gender)? possibly? someone might want to more masculine things in a specific period of their life for instance >5. Do you think it's morally wrong to treat trans women differently from cis women? For example, wanting to date a cis woman but not a trans woman. yes and no, genital preference is fine, it's like preferring a hair colour over another one but treating someone like shit or a man just because they told you they are trans is brain rot. treating what looks like a man but is a trans woman imho is mean but justified. honfidence is a bad idea and you really shouldn't girlmode unless you can.
Grayson Allen
1. genitals do not objectively determine sex 2. culture 3. no 4. dont care, not my issue 5. no
1. yes just a wide variety stereotypes basically. technically chromosomes determine biological sex but im assuming you actually know that and are just acting stupid 2. extremely subjective question, likely influenced by the person's type of dysphoria. tldr: even if someone says gender has nothing to do with the sex's body parts, a random person usually won't think like that, and so many tranners will change their body regardless of their type of dysphoria to be perceived as their preferred gender by random people because it makes them happier. 3. sure, as long as it's something they've actually thought about for more than 5 seconds, and the declaration seems genuine. 4. gender fluidity is just a concept (a la something conceived in the mind) of gender expression, so by definition it's something people either believe in or don't believe in. i think most gender fluid people are going to settle on one gender later in life so in that sense it's not as "real" as being transgender imo. 5. if a trans woman still has a penis of course it's OK to not want to date her compared to a cis woman. any trans person who disagrees is basically just reverse raping people. as long as you are treating us as equals to cis people in normal social environments 90% of trans people are going to be satisfied.
Mason Hill
>as long as it's something they've actually thought about for more than 5 seconds, and the declaration seems genuine. But you'd be hard-pressed to be able to tell this in a real situation. Which is why self-ID laws are easily circumvented. As an example, should institutions seeking women accept someone who self-identifies as a woman despite making zero attempt to act like one?
Andrew Martinez
IMHO, spitballing, can't substantiate: Making zero attempt to act like a woman is a strong indication of an actual trans woman who just feels very hopeless. A predatory false trans woman would tend more to make an attempt but half-ass it
Ian Nelson
1. they are not different, they are heavily linked. the gender/sex dichotomy was one of the biggest mistakes trans people ever made. when you take cross sex hormones you are changing your sex. 2. unironically how they feel in a good-faith way. however there are also biological components, mostly the sex hormones you have, that are extremely important for gender. 3. yes but the vast majority of people who do so would benefit from taking gender appropriate HRT and changing their presentation. 4. yes, i know someone like this and they suffer a lot for it. 5. treat differently, yes; dating, no, no one has an obligation to date anyone. however if you are attracted to someone, want to date them, and then find out they are trans and change your mind just because of that, it is highly morally suspect. but even so do what you want, no trans person wants to date someone who doesn't want to date a trans person.
Chase Long
1. Yes, N/A 2. See above 3. pmt 4. Yes 5. Yes Why do men grow out their beards and go to the gym? Why do women wear makeup?
Aaron Hall
I don't think gender and sex are completely unrelated, most people wouldn't be cis otherwise
Lincoln Ward
I shitpost by not shitposting. Nobody expects you to be nice unironically on Any Forums so that's why I do it
Oliver Campbell
I was asking if they were different semantically, not if they were unrelated. This thread doesn't have that many replies and there are already disagreements.
