Ermmm

hi
mtf here
dont really understand what feeling like one gender or the other is like either. not something i experience, i just feel like myself
anyway imo a 'woman' is like, would 99 percent of people think this person is a woman from social interaction and observation? bcuz thats basically what it is right?
u dont inspect peoples chromosomes or genitals on the street but u can still whos a guy or girl
anyway thats the same reason i dont understand self-id

as a literal tranny i don't even think about these questions. what is a woman? how about "who cares?"

Lmao this dude is such a fucking fag/repper it’s not even funny. Literally tries to dress up as a woman every chance he gets

Why is it so common to try and desperately repress these things, i'm a cis guy, never once thought i was a girl or anything other than a guy, but i still did feminine things as a kid and now and i'm perfectly okay with them

Least hateful New Vegas Player

Cool, thanks for the perspective.
>imo a 'woman' is like, would 99 percent of peopel think this person is a woman from social interaction and observation?
So in your view the idea of "woman" is a social construct defined by society? Like in our society if someone is shorter, dresses a certain way, has a feminine looking face, lack of facial hair, long hair, voice sounds a certain way, then that person is a woman, in your view, because in our society people might recognize that person as a woman? That's an interesting concept. If there was a foreign society where you thought people were "men" based on the culture where you live and how they happened to express themselves, but were biologically female, then you would consider those people's gender "male"? Am I getting that right?
Ok. Help me understand why you're trans then. Why bother if it doesn't matter?

>Why bother if it doesn't matter?
having masculine features makes me sad and depressed and i like what hrt does to my body

NTA but culture is shared and the situation you're describing is impossible to comprehend and exists solely as a hypothetical. a better thought would be, a foreign society where "man" and "woman" seem somewhat identical in expression - in which case there would be essentially "one gender" and you'd have to consider it at a personal level.

>I wouldn't even know how to describe what if means to "feel like a man" versus feeling like a woman. I just experience the world in my own unique way. From my perspective I know I'm a man because I look in my pants.
This is pretty much the case for everyone of every kind.

>or taking artificial hormones to make one's body appear like the opposite sex.
FYI, they're not artificial hormones. Artificial would imply some kind of synthetic molecule. They're the exact same molecules produced by all humans of both sexes: testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone. The term here would be "exogenous" (originating from outside the body).

>Yet I have also heard some trans women (for example) say "I literally AM a woman." This is confusing to me and I'd like some clarification if possible.
The documentary title, and your post, says it all in itself: there is no clear definition or boundary of what it means to be a man or a woman. As others have said, the definition typically given by trans people is "being perceived by others as a woman", where "woman" means "consistently displaying the external attributes, traits, behaviors, accoutrements, and secondary sex characteristics overwhelmingly associated with the vast majority of the proportion of humans who produce ova as gametes".

Part of what may seem confusing is due to the misleading term "transgender". As it's used by this board and probably most people who identify as it, "transgender" is really "transsexual". That is, someone attempting to alter their biological sex, to the extent possible, to be more like the opposite sex. "Transgender" is kind of a meaningless term. "Transsexual" has just fallen out of fashion, in part because ending anything in "-sexual" sounds weird.

I'd say it like this:
Gender has a lot of definitions, and sex is one of them. Sometimes it is the one that matters. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the most important part of gender is how someone looks. Sometimes the most important is their hormonal system. Sometimes the only thing that matters is what's on their ID. Sometimes the most important part is the ability to give birth.
You know how dictionary entries list multiple definitions for a single word? Woman is one such word.
Context decides what definition actually matters.

Also, while you don't seem to be among them, a lot of people wrongly think that "gender is a social construct" means "gender doesn't exist". It doesn't. Countries are a social construct. Language is a social construct. Laws are a social construct. Money is a social construct. Borders are a social construct. That doesn't mean these things don't exist, but it means they exist because humans enforce them.

>where "woman" means "consistently displaying the external attributes, traits, behaviors, accoutrements, and secondary sex characteristics overwhelmingly associated with the vast majority of the proportion of humans who produce ova as gametes".
And for the record, I mean "where" as in "in the context of that one sort of definition". Obviously there's more to it than just that. As the other poster said, there are multiple dictionary entries, so to speak.

I am fine with the word transgender, but disagree with how it is often use. It is not a case of transitioning to the "other" gender. Being transgender is a case of transitioning to a gender that's not the one you grew up with.
Then again I suppose it makes sense that an enby like me disagrees with thinking framed in the context of the opposite sex. Because I do identify as transgender, because I do alter my gender to more suit my needs.

Attached: IMG-20220611-WA0002.jpg (1080x890, 79.62K)

Sneed

Ok that's fair. I can see how in your view you could separate those features from what "man" and "woman" means. Good luck to you.
Have you been to Japan? There is no flip in expression, but many men there aspire to be long-haired pansies. The "pretty boys" literally wear makeup. That is the opposite of what most other cultures consider to be mascule/male. I'd point to ancient Persia, where the males were known to express themselves by grooming habits as modern women do in most of the world. So I think it's more than "solely" a made up hypothetical. Even if it weren't though, wouldn't that be a way for gender as many see it to make sense? Under your scenario gender is reduced to personality.
When I say artificial I just mean manufactured, rather than produced by that person (in that quantity). I understand that it's the identical chemical, structurally and functionally. Obviously one biological sex produces predominantly test and the other predominantly estrogen. "Exogenous": cool I learned a new word, thanks.

Ok, if there is no definition or boundary, then why do people bother to be trans? If biologically someone has XY sex chromosomes and testes, why transition if they want to be a woman? Is there a gender difference between me, someone with XY sex chromosomes and testes and someone with XX and ovaries?
And if being perceived by others as "a woman," for example, makes that individual a woman, then why is "misgendering" a thing if it happens so consistently for some people? That seems like a discrepancy. Are those individuals not appropriately "displaying the [various traits]" necessary and thus ARE not their preferred gender? Again, I don't care what people do, it just strikes me as inconsistent and confusing.
>misleading term
Ok I think I see: "gender" is someone's expression alone, but sex is biological? And if they are that separate, why do people get angry when others (often unintentionally) "misgender" them?
Thanks.