I'd consider myself agender and a gender abolitionist. I don't think gender is necessary or a good thing for our modern society. This goes for both cis and trans people. I've been pondering about what does sexual attraction even mean as a consequence of this? I guess I'd have to argue that everyone is pan sexual or asexual with preferences (socialized or inherent) to certain traits and qualities. I think I might just be crazy and stupid.
I'd consider myself agender and a gender abolitionist...
Daniel Martin
Mason Bell
Yeah youre a lil goofy but you got the spirit
Levi Cooper
Gender is a part of human nature. That's like saying you're a hunger abolitionist or something.
>I guess I'd have to argue that everyone is pan sexual or asexual with preferences (socialized or inherent) to certain traits and qualities
How'd you come to this conclusion?
Evan Bennett
>Gender is a part of human nature. That's like saying you're a hunger abolitionist or something.
Well obviously I have to disagree with this argument, but I'm not here to fight over anything. Everyone can believe what they want. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.
Of course I believe that your physical sex is part of human nature and I'm in favor of having your sex in official documents so that doctors for example know if you have a dick or not. I'm just not convinced that gender is as tied down to sex as people make it out to be. And even if it was 50/50 biological and socially constructed (or even more in favor of biology), I still don't see the value gender is adding to society. Also naturalism is a bad argument.
>How'd you come to this conclusion?
If you live in a world where gender is abolished, it is irrelevant to label people as gay, straight or bi since those terms are tied down to gender. Pan sexuals are attracted to people (aka this would be everyone who is sexually attracted to a person in this society) And asexuals wouldn't be sexually attracted to anyone (duh)
Chase Gomez
You kind of have the right idea.
Basically: The lines between manhood and womanhood are blurring and genetics aren't necessarily becoming a deciding component anymore.
This makes sense because technology has changed the nature of how we provide. manhood used to be a necessity, now that isn't true so much in the developed world.
And a result- sexuality is shifting in response to this.
Isaiah White
So what, should we classify people as vagina-havers and penis-havers? These things matter y'know
Ryan Jenkins
>Basically: The lines between manhood and womanhood are blurring and genetics aren't necessarily becoming a deciding component anymore.
I can't agree more. Manhood and womanhood are pure social construct. Genetics have nothing to do with it. Genetics only determine what kind of genitals, secondary sexual features and hormones you will produce (what is scientifically known as sex) and is not totally binary even if it can be for "typical" humans. There are intersex people even if they are a minority. Gender is useless, especially in our current world.
Jose Thomas
You are based and have the same view as me
t. another agender
Ryan Miller
As it is done by scientifics and in the medical fields, let's just categorize people as "male human", "female human" and "intersex human".
Jordan Thomas
I can't help but agree. Gender is a social construct that is no longer necessary. Hopefully, it will get abolished. But it is important for some people, it is their identity. I do not think anything will change any time soon.
Camden Davis
Well yeah people's legal documents that will be forwarded to the doctors should probably have your sex in them, but what do pronouns or knowing which genitalia a person has in a normal conversation add to society. The arbitrary rules of gender are just limit people for no apparent reason.
>But it is important for some people, it is their identity.
I think this is a negative thing, this is probably because I might be a contrarian to the status quo of left wing identity politics. I don't think attaching your identity to groups is a good thing, I also think that building your identity around your nation or ethnicity is a bad thing. I guess I'm extremely individualistic or something I don't know.
Jace Cooper
Do you know what sex and sex characteristics are? No one cared about identity. It's all about your body parts.
Tyler Brown
>No one cared about identity. It's all about your body parts.
Well no that's just clearly false. I've never in my entire life met a trans person who's only thing was: "I don't like how I look" of course that is a variable also, but how'd you even begin to explain wearing clothes of the opposite sex or preferring certain pronouns if it's only about body parts?
Ethan Lewis
>gender abolitionist
Nice transphobia dogwhistle.
Jack Rodriguez
>I've been pondering about what does sexual attraction even mean as a consequence of this?
Kinds feels like something to consider before deciding on that position on gender politics and gender identity!
Aaron Jones
>Of course I believe that your physical sex is part of human nature and I'm in favor of having your sex in official documents so that doctors for example know if you have a dick or not
And therein lies your problem. Differences in physical sex will always lead to gender. Yes, the gender system of the future need have no relation to the one of the present. But as long as physical sex differences exist, those differences will gain social meaning, and that social meaning will result in gender. This is why queer activist academics advocate ‘abolishing’ gender by inventing a bazillion new ones, thus rendering gender meaningless. Once Society is composed of 80% cissexuals with bizarre one off genders like stargender or amogusgender, so goes the theory, gender will have been rendered a completely meaningless and confusing category and thus will lose social significance. Except as we can plainly see in real time, people just revert to trying to determine sex so that they can reclassify anyone who falls outside of the already understood categories into said categories. Ultimately the best you can realistically achieve, based on human history, is to expand gender so that a third option is available, or so that it’s understood as a spectrum, and build much greater acceptance for those who change gender or those who fall outside the traditional man/woman camps.
Cooper Howard
Cool. I disagree and I think you're being retarded, but maybe it's just a phase.
Justin Taylor
Isn't it a cisphobic dogwhistle as well then?
Aaron Cruz
Gender is rooted in biology
>but muh social construct
Everything is a social construct but that doesn't automatically mean it can't also exist outside of the human mind
Joshua Martinez
i agree but i have got into too many arguments about this recently to reply to the other retards here so i will simply say based
Asher Peterson
hot picture
but i'd argue that, from a practical perspective, you might actually prefer "gender maximalism," which is like that millions of dead genders tumblr but unironically. it solves the following practical problem:
>i have preferences for certain traits
>some of these traits are not outwardly visible (e.g. how one experiences attraction, leader vs follower role in a relationship, who penetrates during sex)
>i would like some shorthand to convey these preferences (e.g. het/homo/bi/pan, dom/sub, top/bottom)
>but this kind of shorthand introduces two new problems:
>first, it's still pretty long, since i have to use one word for each preference
>second, it only works on things that are well-defined --- cultural categories don't work like this, and by definition shift over time
>to solve these two new problems, we introduce genders
>a gender captures many properties, so instead of saying "youthful feminine penis-having male-identified submissive bottom," i can just say "twink" (yes, i consider twink a gender)
>we can make up a new gender to capture any set of properties we want
>we can also modify an existing gender to include a person who doesn't match one of its components, but still fits the overall vibe (e.g. a twink top)
>this gives us a system to convey our desires quickly and navigate ambiguity
>as an added bonus, we can use it to express our identity
>instead of listing a gorillion qualities about myself, i can say "i'm a bear" and people have a general idea about what i like