Sometimes I feel like the last of the old school homosexuals. When I was 15, we all looked up to musical theatre stars, repressed dreams of playing iconic older female roles, were into the fashion scene and haute couture, we would argue for hours about our favorite “gay icon” flamboyant straight female popstar divas.
The diva aesthetic died, and now it seems like every gay boy wants to be a princess instead of a queen. Obsession with the anime aesthetic, maid dresses, “cuteness” instead of “glamour”. I’m only 22 and I feel old, like my kind is dying out and being replaced by Twitter femboys.
>The diva aesthetic died, and now it seems like every gay boy wants to be a princess
Thank fuck
Nathan Morgan
I don't like the qveen and diva aesthetic. All that drag stuff is very unappealing and tasteless to me.
Austin Barnes
I’m not necessarily talking about drag, though drag is an extreme subcategory of our social circles. It’s campy and not for everyone, masc gays have always hated it, but I like watching drag, the queens can get very creative, especially once you get used to the garish makeup. The makeup is where most people’s hangups are, but the outfits can be very visually interesting.
I’m talking about how older gays in the border between millennials and Gen Z were still in the camp subculture. We still loved hyperfeminine older women with experimental fashion, we had Opinions™ on people like Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, or Britney. Obviously they’re not quite as iconic as Cher or Madonna, but they were divas of our generation. Most of us enjoyed musical theatre, most of us didn’t want an infantilized aesthetic, but instead looked up to powerful older women who reveled in aesthetic excess and wealth. We were interested in art and formal fashion, we had limp wrists and worked hard to hide our gay lisp.
It seems like every gay boy younger than me has no interest in these things. Like this culture died with my generation. It makes me feel old and insecure, like I’m getting replaced. I suddenly understand what the TERFs feel like, though I’d never sublimate that with bigotry.
Thomas Reed
I'm sorry but there are shitloads of gays like you, though they tend to be over 25
Isaac Howard
Ironically I feel like Natalie may embody the classical gay energy that we used to enjoy in the past. I live vicariously through her, I want to wear her outfits.
Connor Reed
DUDE YOU ARE NOT THE LAST "OLD SCHOOL HOMOSEXUAL", I AM! I LOOK UP TO HADRIAN AND ANTINOUS, MORRISSEY, MISHIMA AND PROUST!!! THE NEW IDEA OF HOMOSEXUALITY AS PROMISCUITY IS EVIL AND ITS A WAY TO SUBVERSE TRUE LOVE BETWEEN TWO MEN. the "diva" thing is still a relatively new thing, and its just a fad. HOMOFASCISM IS ETERNAL
William Brown
Yeah, that’s the point, it’s not a culture that seems to appeal to the younger generations at all, which is wild to me because I remember being 15 and even thinking about wanting to be reborn as a woman so I could age into being Meryl Streep or Angela Lansbury or even Hillary Clinton. I wanted glamour, not cuteness.
I just kinda wonder when the cultural shift happened.
Samuel Nelson
This is actually a misconception. Gay masculinity became fashionable in the 1970s, when the “jock” identity was construed. Before that, the dominant identity in gay circles was “swish”, and being masculine in any way was viewed as rude or uncultured.
The majority of gay men in Weimar Germany were effete, which is why many were sent to concentration camps. The Interwar period saw the birth of gay subversive art and yes, the birth of drag. Gay male circles were also frequented by skinny occultists, drunken poets, and most of the “masculine” men in them were pederasts who obsessed over young boys. The gay known figures of the 19th century, then called “uranians” all had a proximity to glamour and ostentatious dandyism and slightly feminine signifiers, and this includes both Wilde and Douglas, Aubrey Beardsley and Arthur Rimbaud. The masculine, sportsmanlike homosexuals that appeased the fascist New Man aesthetic were the exception, and even among them there was crossdressing.
In fact, it’s an undeniable scientific fact that homosexuality strongly correlates with femininity in males.
Ian Garcia
>The diva aesthetic died, and now it seems like every gay boy wants to be a princess instead of a queen. Obsession with the anime aesthetic, maid dresses, “cuteness” instead of “glamour”. I’m only 22 and I feel old, like my kind is dying out and being replaced by Twitter femboys. That's how culture works user. Fashions come and go, evolve and grow. I'm 28 and have witnessed many changes already.
Nicholas Hall
>it’s not a culture that seems to appeal to the younger generations at all Yeah because it’s cringe as fuck lol
Ian Harris
>Obsession with the anime aesthetic, maid dresses, “cuteness” instead of “glamour” This route is probably more effective for attracting bis and experimenting straight men.
Joshua Ortiz
Odd, I've never seen the latter you've described. Sure, the glamor is kitsch now because the female stars went hyper kitsch, but that's the only change I see.
Christian Scott
I mean, it is old, and I suppose old things are thought of as cringe. But there was a time where we were more like Hubert se Givenchy, the personal stylist of Audrey Hepburn and Jackie Kennedy, than we were like Felix Argyle from Re:Zero or whatever it is the young gays love
>The majority of gay men in Weimar Germany I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WEIMAR RETARD, WEIMAR IS A SUBVERSION OF THE GREEK SPIRIT TOO >and most of the “masculine” men in them were pederasts who obsessed over young boys yeah and? >and even among them there was crossdressing im not necessarily againsst crossdressing I am against stonewall and promiscuity >In fact, it’s an undeniable scientific fact that homosexuality strongly correlates with femininity in males yeah but femininity does not equal womanlike femininity is something else, and its more like youth, we just attribute it to women cause they are more likely to be like that.
Charles Edwards
I want to believe there are 22 year olds out there like this, but it seems too far fetched. Didn't you grow up raised on internet, vidya, social media? How does someone your age even get into Warhol, or the NYC 1970s underground scene, as well as 1920s Weimar history?
Jacob Thomas
I’m not too interested in the activist image of post-Stonewall either. I understand it’s political value for my own rights, but it’s a little too working class for my personal taste.
To me, aside from Givenchy, Cecil Beaton embodied the gay creative spirit of old times. He also did costume design for Audrey Hepburn but was more of a photographer.
I don’t want the youth and the infantile aesthetic. I want the “fancy” world, I want power in a feminine way, but not a girlish way. I want to be a bitch, a middle aged divorcée, a grande dame. And I’m fine with living this fantasy vicariously through my aging female best friends whom I socially gravitate around, like any self-respecting old gay would, and watching content in knowing that my taste is impeccable.
I don’t get the obsession with the brand of femininity you want. I can’t get it. But I’m not too fond of gay activism as an identity. And I think it’s weird to associate typical gay femininity with Stonewall, considering many gay men existed publicly in aristocratic circles.
Carter Gutierrez
>Didn't you grow up raised on internet, vidya, social media?
Got my first smartphone at 13, so most of my childhood I had already internalized the camp aesthetic. I knew I was in masculine and interested in theatre and fashion long before I ever felt attraction to male bodies. I was bullied for it in elementary school. By the time I was in middle school thankfully people kind of accepted it and I made friends, mostly women.
I had the internet as a child but it was internet 1.0, so mostly just Google, a few minigames, Wikipedia, and the like. I also read a lot about gay history, especially the interwar period. And the internet only served to connect me with other gay men since I’d never met one in real life.
The shift between the old brand of gay femininity and the new one was REALLY quick, you can still find people in my age range with the aforementioned interests.
Brandon Martinez
I can see it. Typically I've found that the rabbit hole is with those with deviant sexual interests or asexuals who live out some other life in religion, occultism, and history.
Christian Stewart
least schizo hsts repressor
Juan Rodriguez
>Didn't you grow up raised on internet, vidya, social media? >How does someone your age even get into Warhol, or the NYC 1970s underground scene, as well as 1920s Weimar history? People who aren't dumb can actually use the internet to learn about things outside of their cultural bubble. In the past, it was naively assumed that everyone was going to use it this way.
Kevin Jones
Homos are disgusting, we should make you transition.
Aaron Fisher
>I understand it’s political value for my own rights, but it’s a little too working class for my personal taste. thats the thing there is no value in it. Homosexuality should not even be a public thing. I love the idea of the tortured repressed homosexual like Kierkegaard, or the Aristomatic high culture Romantics like Hadrian and Mishima. I despsie anything that blasts homosexuality in your face like its a disability we need special treatment for. I like the personal world of the homosexual, the tortured yet beautiful expirienced. Constantly wresting with your desires and with God, searching for love. I HATE ANYTHING THAT TRIES TO SUBVERT THAT. WE DONT NEED A GAY MOVEMENT, WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE WE ARE GAY. IF YOU WANNA BE OPEN ABOUT IT, MAKE ART, DONT JUST GO OUT IN THE STREETS AND BREAK SHIT LIKE A RETARD AND SCREAM FOR SO CALLED RIGHT. I DONT WANT RIGHTS, I DONT WANNA BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN SOCIETY
Hunter Green
I’m not dissatisfied with my male body and I have a very gay self-concept so transition isn’t something I’m interested in. Your homophobia really doesn’t matter to my life very much. I took enough of it in childhood.
Transgender women are indeed valid, but I don’t relate to them. None of them even like the brand of femininity I enjoy, they’re all like Twitter zoomers. It wouldn’t be an interesting community
I mean, being gay, my sexuality is deviant in some capacity, but I’m not particularly into niche things. Male attention was a novelty I liked when I was 19 but it’s honestly gotten stale and I don’t seek out meaningless sex anymore. I want social prestige and wealth, it’s much more pleasurable and validating than sex.
Jaxson Morgan
I'm impressed indeed that you naturally gravitated something that held deeper meaning, and resisted what's trendy to find your own identity. When I grew up in the dark ages of the 1990s, I was completely isolated in my small very het blue collar town from other gay people, and used to go to the library to read about gay history, Warhol and the factory, Lou Reed, all of the fascinating characters and places in that raw 1970s NYC scene that was like the wild west (east) for gay and transgender people. It was a great escape from the boring hetlife I was surrounded by in suburbia. Kudos to you young jedi.
Ayden Jenkins
I suppose I just consider extensive historical knowledge of subcultures to be a niche thing and of itself. Arguably the bigger difference is in having a different mindset than your peers; both routes in this case will result in that.
Bentley Brown
I think I know what you're getting at, OP. I'm not even American but I spent too long in the gay history section of the library and now I'm nostalgic for a (gay) cultural period I never lived through, on the other side of the world. Now it feels like gay culture has lost what made it distinct and become part of general millennial/zoomer culture.
