Why do conservatives have to reach so much to attack their opposants?
Why do conservatives have to reach so much to attack their opposants?
Samuel Lee
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Jaxson Jenkins
Conservatives need to be constantly outraged and clutching pearls at all times. Its part of being conservative.
That said, I don't like "surrogate" pregnancies. Renting out a person's womb and having her go through the pain and trauma of pregnancy/childbirth and then tearing her away from her child afterward? Not a fan. Just adopt ffs.
Carson Davis
>Renting out a person's womb and having her go through the pain and trauma of pregnancy/childbirth and then tearing her away from her child afterward?
You frame it like this is being forced on these women
Its an opt in program
Austin Diaz
Up until the word parents, this is correct
Alexander Cooper
You can say that about any exploitative or traumatic labor. At a certain point, it becomes kinda fucked up that you are paying someone to do that. And you can read all kinds of fucked up stories about how and when surrogacy goes wrong.
abcnews.go.com
people.com
Like, just adopt ffs.
Ryan Cruz
how is that human trafficking lol
Jason Sullivan
Unironically some women like being pregnant, and not for child rearing reasons
Luis Sullivan
So if a woman says, wow i have an ability that certain people dont and would
pay me large sums of money to do
You think the government shouldnsteo in and say NOOOO I HAVE TO SAVE YOU FROM YOURSELF NOOO
Cooper Price
>adoption is human trafficking
These faggots wouldn't be pearl clutching if a husband's stupid wife had ovarian cancer yet still wanted children
Aaron Smith
wym?
Dominic Sanders
Because they live in a fantasy world where they are the ever victimized hero's fighting the overwhelming but incompetent villains.
Jace Jackson
>NOOOO YOU, A CONSENTING ADULT, CANNOT DO THIS THING OF YOUR OWN VOLITION
>NOOOO YOU NEED TO DO AS I TELL YOU, YOU CAN'T HAVE CONTROL OVER YOUR OWN BODY NOOOOO
kill yourself, now.
Ethan Johnson
I mean, we have all kinds of labor laws that prevent exploitative working conditions for this reason. Unless you are a hardcore libertarian and you think there should be zero labor protections at all, the government absolutely steps in to say "NOOOO I HAVE TO SAVE YOU FROM YOURSELF NOOO". Because otherwise labor markets get real fucked up real fast, as the poorest of the poor race to the bottom.
Surrogates get on average $30000-$46000, less if you get them done overseas. Its not a "large sum" by any stretch. Its a poverty sum, not worth the amount of potential trauma that goes along with pregnancy, potential forced abortions, childbirth, and then being torn away from your child.
theguardian.com
Just. adopt. ffs.
Dylan Bailey
30 fucking thousand dollars for only having to miss work for 3 months is not a fucking poverty wage are you HIGH
Juan Martin
Trips of truth. The Surrogate business is extremely exploitative and traumatises many women living in poverty.
Hudson Gutierrez
>$30-46k for 9 months worth of work that can be done in addition to many other jobs for 6-7 months of the labor is "poverty level"
What are you smoking?? In many places, even in America, $46k in a year is more than enough to comfortably live on. $30-40k supplementing your other earnings for 9 months? If I could do that, I would be doing that every year, maybe every other, for as long as I could.
Ryan Sullivan
It's absolutely poverty wage for going through 9 months of pregnancy + childbirth + having children taken away, which is very difficult, often traumatic, and sometimes even life threatening. Considering surrogacy involving IVF means high levels of multiples, that means there is even higher levels of potential trauma/complications and the potential of forced abortion.
You certainly will NOT see many wealthy woman doing it.
~Just~ ~adopt~ ~ffs~
Justin Baker
who cares. if people choose to do it, let them
Mason Jackson
Spoken like someone who has never had to be pregnant or give birth. Might wanna look up some stats on traumatic births and ptsd.
Michael Thomas
i am a hardcore libertarian and think there should be zero labor protections at all
>le race to the bottom
that's why everybody earns minimum wage amirite?
Camden Nelson
By this logic all labor protection should be stripped away. "If people choose to do it let them".
>i am a hardcore libertarian and think there should be zero labor protections at all
ok then shut up and fuck off til you finish turning 18
Isaac Cooper
Adoption is impossible for many people.
Anthony Hughes
Passing on your genes is literelly the meaning of life, modern science has made so homosexuals can finally fulfill this biological NEED.
Carter Ross
Labor laws are to make sure workers and employers are making mutually beneficiary deals; not to remove jobs from existance
There are lots of laws made to protect surrogates, like making sure the surrogate isnt in poverty to reduce exploitation
Getting whats a years salary for most people based on less than a year of labor isnt really that exploitative
>its cheaper to do it overseas and thats bad!!
Then get an american surrogate
Brody Johnson
ok
>most common issue: postpartum depression, 10-20% reported rate. Symptoms usually fade within 6 months of birth
>some amount of internal bleeding is next most common, 5-8%
>injury of infant, 2%
>caesarian section complications, 2%
>postpartum OCD, 2%
>death of mother or child: 0.01% or less
also note that many of these are correlated: someone experiencing physical birth complications will likely have mental complications ensue, or vice versa. So these numbers don't stack additively, you really are looking at a 10-20% reasonably hard cap. The only studies that suggest a higher number also include third world numbers usually, which obviously are much higher for a large number of reasons, and should be discounted from a discussion of first world surrogate pregnancy.
and all the data shows that if you have an unhealthy first birth, you are likely to again, while if you have a healthy first birth, you'll probably be fine.
So, assuming you know you can safely get pregnant... what's the problem, exactly, with being a girlboss?