The hon paradox:

if you are trans, living as a woman is something you need to have any kind of normal, functional, or happy life. One time I asked a bunch of trans women who do pass and are living as women what they would do if they had to go back to living as men, and every one of them without hesitation said they would kill themselves.

But if you can't pass, living as a woman is nor something you're supposed to want. You're told that it's delusional, pathetic, entitled, not something you deserve when you look like that, and if you try to take it, you'll be punished. People will see you as a hon and they'll go out of their way to deny it to you and humiliate you for trying. They'll call you a fetishist, chastise you for lacking the self-awareness to realize you aren't a woman, and treat you as a bad person for pursuing or even wanting the thing you literally need to survive.

What do you do when your basic survival needs are something that it's immoral for you to want?

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i stopped caring about morals long ago for the most part, but i also dont have typcial mtf problems

that's because you're an insane, retarded psychopath, as evidenced by your posts

>i stopped caring about morals long ago for the most part
whether you care about morals or not doesn't matter as long as those morals are enforced. You might not have any qualms about stealing but that doesn't mean you won't go to prison if you get caught. And the same thing applies to trying to take a gender that doesn't belong to you: you won't be allowed to get away with it.
>but i also dont have typcial mtf problems
wym?

To me, this is just an expression of why this board (and others) trashing “hons” is a bad thing and why transgender rights and acceptance need to be secured for all trans people, not just the pretty ones

>What do you do when your basic survival needs are something that it's immoral for you to want?
The question is moot because the premises aren't true. Not only is it not immoral, in a Northern US state and urban (and probably surban) area, very few people are going to think a hon is a fetishist or immoral or a bad person. They'll generally just think they're really ugly and weird-looking and so will instinctively kind of stay away. But they won't be cruel to them and probably won't think cruel things about them. The internal thoughts would probably mostly just be pity and sympathetic sadness.

well maybe they won't be malicious but they will still see and treat that person as a man which will have the net effect of denying that person their basic need of being gendered female.

cope
i dont think u can compare breaking law with dressing like a woman if you can pull it off lol

i mean shit like height, bone structure, large body, deep voice etc the usual mtf problems

>well maybe they won't be malicious but they will still see and treat that person as a man which will have the net effect of denying that person their basic need of being gendered female.
If they're a liberal (and not a TERF; though I don't consider them liberals, personally), in most cases they'll try to gender them correctly and be nice, even if internally and subconsciously they may still see them as a man. They'll generally try to be polite and will use their pronouns if they know the person's pronouns. They might sometimes slip up by accident, but probably not intentionally.

As far as I can tell, even many/most trans people kind of do the same thing, too, when coming across people who don't pass at all. If someone really doesn't pass, it's hard to train your brain to not consider their appearance and voice the main indicator. Some things are just reflexive. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll treat the person badly or cruelly.

well if you aren't a hon then of course the hon paradox doesn't apply to you. But you do understand what I mean, right? You can get away with living as a woman because of those things, but if I told myself I deserved to be a woman, it wouldn't matter, because people would still gender me male and my social gender would still be male whether I liked it or not, which would still cause me dysphoria. My need to be gendered female is something that's in the hands of other people, and I can't have it unless they give it to me, which they won't.

>tfw no lawful evil psychopath mtf gf

>If they're a liberal (and not a TERF; though I don't consider them liberals, personally), in most cases they'll try to gender them correctly and be nice, even if internally and subconsciously they may still see them as a man. They'll generally try to be polite and will use their pronouns if they know the person's pronouns. They might sometimes slip up by accident, but probably not intentionally.
When you're around cis people who see you as a man, even well-meaning ones, you can still tell. It seeps into the ways they treat you in a thousand different subtle ways. It's not the pronouns that trans people want, it's getting to be treated as their preferred gender so that they can see themselves that way and not feel dysphoria, and this still denies them that. Even if there isn't malice, there's still denial of the need to not feel dysphoric.

>As far as I can tell, even many/most trans people kind of do the same thing, too, when coming across people who don't pass at all.
This is true. I feel really uncomfortable around passing trans people because they all treat me this way.

>It doesn't necessarily mean they'll treat the person badly or cruelly.
But that doesn't make it hurt any less to be treated as a man...

my point is i would put my happiness above morals anyday,unless something i could get in serious trouble for when the negative consequences outweights the pleasure. i dont think having low iq npcs dicate my life would make me any happy. and most ppl have no real reason to follow norms, they just do it because society says so andn ever thought a second about it.

but on the other hand i would probably never have trooned out if i was a hon and just keep having female avatars in games and erp , not because of morals or social taboo or smt, im just literally disgusted by ugly people and wouldnt want to be a laughing stock.

i guess if your a hon you either have to start loving yourself and stop caring what others think or cope with female avatars and virtual reality

I just pretend I'm a really ugly woman and all my gender dysphoria goes away

it's just simply not possible to see yourself as a woman when the way other people treat you constantly reminds you that you're not one. You can hate them or not care about them all you want, but it won't hurt any less to have to be reminded that you're a man.

And the alternative of just trying to avoid real life altogether really isn't sustainable in the long term. It's just not living.

requiring other people to give in to your wishes / play along for you to become happy will just never ever work out, its not possible.

i guess it works for some people but the hon paradox thing is just one of thousand examples that comes down to the fact that the world is not fair and ppl have to accept that earlier or later.

>requiring other people to give in to your wishes / play along for you to become happy will just never ever work out, its not possible.
You literally said that you wouldn't transition if you couldn't pass. Human brains are evolved to have some degree of social awareness, it's simply not possible to forget that you're a man when the way everyone else treats you constantly reminds you of it. Whether or not needing something will "work out" doesn't change the fact that it is a need.

>i guess it works for some people but the hon paradox thing is just one of thousand examples that comes down to the fact that the world is not fair and ppl have to accept that earlier or later.
Yeah, I'm just in a situation where it's impossible for me to ever be happy and I don't know what to do. If I accept it, I just don't have any reason to live.

It would be so much easier if I just had the guts to kill myself.

That's the saddest part is that killing yourself really wouldn't change anything. Dysphoria isn't pain, it's just unliving, stripping the joy and pleasure and color and hope and happiness out of everything. Being a guy isn't painful so much as it is never getting to live or be happy, and suicide wouldn't change that.

To be fair suicide may or may not be an option. Its not clear what happens after death. Maybe you go to some fairy land and be a happy girl forever. Maybe you are reborn (chance of being a happy woman or a cis guy without dysohpria) Maybe you just feel and see nothing anymore and are therefore beyond needs like passing. or something entirely different.

We just live in a brainwashed society where the prejudice will try to push smear campaigns and project their own selfishness onto others who don't share the same views. Literally just self righteous raging NPCs who want nothing more than to be manipulative self entitled control freaks. To live how you want in spite of them is exactly what the normies deserve.