I don’t really want my initial reaction to seeing trans men to be disdain and disgust anymore.
I won’t claim that I hate every last FT
, but the way I feel about them is like the classic they’re all trash with the exception of rare one-of-the-good-ones who aren’t sniveling little pooners with victim complexes.
I look at FTM boards and threads and all I see are women complaining about men, women complaining about trans women, women looking for attention with their shitty bodies that don’t look good as men or as women, women crying about how oppressed they are. I sit in on group social vid chats that have FTMs on them and they literally talk about their periods to a level detail that you almost never hear most cis women getting into except if they’re worried about their health. Back when they existed, I’d go to lesbian bars with my friends or gf and there would be FTMs with their shitty little facial hair whisps dating lesbians because they would never be able to cut it trying to date people who were attracted to men.
Years and years ago, when I was still young and naïve, I really thought we were all in the same boat and would share some kind of solidarity, and I was always excited to meet other trans people of any AGAB. But whenever I’d go to clubs, groups, conferences, or whatever that involved all kinds of trans people—especially places that also welcomed cis people—there was always this assumption by trans men and cis people of either gender that FTMs were cool & enlightened and so on, while trans women were treated like the opposite of that. Stereotypes of women, misogynists, threats, etc you know the drill.
I get it, really—whenever someone doesn’t pass, yeah, they’re going to get treated like their AGAB. That’s just how it is.
[1/2]
How do I stop hating FTMs?
unironically stop looking at the internet and basing your view on people on that. if most people's ideas of LGBT was based on this board, then it would probably be legal to execute us on sight
[2/2]
Back then, I was the earliest transitioning trans woman (usually the earliest transitioning trans person) in almost all of the places where I was likely to run into trannies, and frankly most MTFs in those places back then either hadn’t started hormones before 35 if they started them at all, so of course FTMs and cis people (and even some trans women) would see them as men and, if they were the sort of women to be afraid of men, would be afraid of them. Sometimes it would be demonstrated just based on how I’d see them interact with these older trans women (and cross dressers), sometimes it would be spoken about more explicitly behind their backs. But the fact that they felt and behaved that way, instead of just acting like secure adult men, didn’t really make me think of them as men and not just the shittiest women to walk the earth with zero empathy, especially when so many of them looked like fat lesbians.
I’ve met trans men since then who are fine & do act like the men they profess to be, and sometimes look the part. But that remains the small minority of FTMs I’ve met.
I’ve reached a point where I’ve accepted that I probably will never see most non-passing trans men as men, just as I’ve accepted that I don’t really see most non-passing trans women as women. That would be fine, in fact, except that I feel an involuntary loathing for most of them, unless they demonstrate good reason for me not to, that I don’t feel even for most non-passing trans women (never mind cis people or passing trans people of either gender). I don’t understand why that is; it’s not just because I see them as women, because I don’t feel that way about cis women even the slightest bit (or about other passing trans women, on that note). I don’t want to loath them, but I don’t even understand why I do.
I also kind of feel this way about most enbies unless they can actively behave like they aren’t narcissists.
What’s my fucking problem?
The problem is that I felt this way based mostly on interactions with trans men in real life though :(
Unironicaly change ftm to mtf ,periods for anything dick related women to men and men to women and.... Doesn't that sound familiar?
Honestly if you can't see it idk how to help, all you need to do is notice there is bias because there is a lot of the same shit on your side ur simply not sensitive towards
I want to be able to look at it that way, I really do, but I just can’t. I can’t see obnoxious little pooners and just be like “huh, gross” and move on, it makes me feel so much more revulsion when it’s FTMs and I don’t know why or how to stop
Have you had bad experiences with them? When i say that i don't mearly mean they being obnoxious, i mean they wronging you and having people staying on their side and you believing if they were any other demographics people would not
>What's my fucking problem?
You're an asshole who can't see or understand that people have their very own lives and problems that have nothing to do with you.That's all there is to it. Sprinkle some misogyny on top since you don't even view most FtMs as male, how dare they talk about their bodies and date people with conflicting identities? This whole thread is coated in insulting and degrading language towards those men. You're no better than the people who wronged you.
literally just meet new ones it isn't that hard
Nothing worse than I’ve had other MTFs do to me; I don’t want to get too into the details about it though.
So youre just hating on FTMs as an excuse to hide your thinly veiled misogyny?
Very standard MTF behavior
Ya okay but it’s really just FTMs I don’t feel like this about cis women at all
Intellectually yes I know I’m no better than them but emotionally i still feel this way.
Yes i am an asshole i know but i don’t want to be :(
exactly OP comes of as a raging incel. seems like he just made this thread to seethe about ftms rather than fix his issue
Standard or not i don’t think that’s what it is bc again i don’t feel like this about cis women at all. Also if you really think it’s just standard misogyny then it kind of means you also think of FTMs as women, no?
Do you feel that way about cis butches tho? Or if a cis woman assumed she knew about your struggles better than you do?
nah its misogyny because you view them as women and are therefore hating 'women' tbhon it just seems like you're another incel mtf that is terminally incelbrained. you're just destined to forever be a man
yeah, excessive ftm hate just comes from excessive malebrain. misogyny is the standard setting in men though, gotta really work on yourself to purify it
> Do you feel that way about cis butches tho?
I don’t! I don’t feel that way about cis butches at all.
> Or if a cis woman assumed she knew about your struggles better than you do?
I actually have had cis women who assumed they knew more about “my struggles” than me and it still didn’t make me feel as disdainful. Once was really aggressive too, like a couple of trans women were talking abt people being transphobic and i started talking and she literally shouted “this isn’t about you”. I hadn’t really been very talkative or anything so it’s not like I’d just been making things about me lol. But i don’t think she knew i was trans, so desu it makes me a little happy to think about bc it meant that I’m not getting clocked in a room full of out trannies.
But you might be on to something here; i do feel like it may get worse whenever i see a bunch of FTMs and/or enbies going on about how hard they have it vs MTFs
if ftms are the only type of woman I’m misogynist against i guess i can live with that desu
It’s not like I’m an actual incel; I’ve never had any problems being in relationships, so this doesn’t hurt me at all.
This has actually helped me feel a lot better ty anons
Your first problem was involving yourself in LGBT communities. Regular trans men exist in male-dominated hobbies and keep it secret
Yeah that’s a really good point. I stopped fucking around with LGBT communities after a trans rights activist i was in a relationship with physically abused me and it was the most positively I’d felt about other trans people while i wasn’t on contact with any of them
Then i found this board
>'How do I stop hating FTMs?'
The first step would be to actually want to overcome your hatred. You failed that first step, why are you even asking for help when you don't care at all? Just continue talking other trans people down. It fits you well.
I do want to, i really do; it was starting to interfere with my own happiness to hate them. I don’t want to just accept that it’s okay to hate them, but that seems to be /tttt/‘s advice, so ????
> most ftm aren’t men
> most mtf aren’t women
Aren’t you an annoying lil bitch?
Idk, work on your empathy and also some self-love. People usually get really harsh and bitter towards others when they abuse themselves too. You seem susceptible for all kinds of ignorance and strong feelings of hatred for others can get addicting over time especially when it's a way to coping with your own reality. FtMs are just people and you rationally know that too yet they have become your dearest scapegoat.
yes apparently i am :(