Wasn't he supposed to be considered the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime? Power creeping aside...

Wasn't he supposed to be considered the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime? Power creeping aside, where would prime Hiruzen be in the tiers of Naruto? Taking into consideration that he did (albeit weakened versions) of the first two Hokages and Oro, would he be at the top of the second highest tier, being only below the likes of Kaguya, her kids, and Naruto/Sasuke?

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That was retconned. He's the 2nd weakest behind Tsunade now

Kill yourself, narutard.

It was never retconned. Prime Hiruzen stomps Assirama and Lmaodara.

He's not. He's easily in the top 3. He out did Hasirama as a fucking child.

Makes you wonder why he was weaker than Onoki while being 10 years younger. Also makes you wonder why he was making fucking shadow shuriken clones at the war while Hashirama was creating wooden kaijus and both Tobirama and Minato were using Einstein bridges to bend space and time and teleport at will

He's so powerful that the entire plot could have been avoided if he ever felt like doing something other than peeping with his crystal ball until old age fucked him over.

>Just kind of hang back and see what happens during the Fox attack
>Fourth Hokage and his wife die. A literal baby becomes Jinchuriki
>Let baby be some sad sack orphan living alone without proper childhood ninja training rather than properly adopting him and ensuring his substantial pedigree is nurtured
>Know that the Uchiha are planning a coup because they feel isolated due to your retard friends machinations
>Do nothing after your retard friend orchestrates their slaughter, killing every man women and child as well as severely weakening your village
>Literally nothing, despite this being the eighth time your retard friend has betrayed you and weakened the village
>Let your psychopath student get away to murder thousands more people and attempt to destroy the village later rather than just kill him
Hiruzen isn't evil or anything. But good god almighty was he a fucking retard.

Tsunade might merely be an above average fighter, but her feats as a medical ninja healing thousands of people all at once are more impressive than anything we saw Hiruzen do.

Hasirama supposed to be dogshit just like Itachi was meant to be evil. Many such case.

Also pretty sure Shiki Fūjin supposed to be pinnacle of all ninjutsu at the time they wrote Hiruzen Orochi.

Completely destroyed by power creep. By lore and feats alone he should be top 3 atleast

>He out did Hasirama as a fucking child
lmao

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>Wasn't he supposed to be considered the most powerful of all Hokage in his prime?
Obviously, their strengths were retconned.
But even then, I think Minato was originally planned to be the strongest Hokage.
Hiruzen (past his prime) thought he could take on Hashirama and Tobirama just fine, but was shitting his pants at the prospect of Orochimaru summoning Minato.

>But even then, I think Minato was originally planned to be the strongest Hokage.
They outright say in part 1 that Minato could've become the strongest ninja in history if he hadn't died young. And in Kakashi Gaiden one of the Rock Ninjas say that they have standing orders to run at the sight of him.

With what i understand about the reaper death seal I don't even see how it would be possible for Oro to summon him. His soul was within the Shinigami and wasn't retrievable without doing the Uzumaki ritual

Yeah, its a blatant plot hole. Hiruzen says later in the same fight that the Reaper Death Seal is what Minato used to Seal the Fox and that it devours the soul of the user.

Hmm, then again, I don't remember it every being explicitly stated that Orochimaru was going for the Fourth Hokage. Maybe he was raising Madara?

PRIME Hiruzen was high kage at very least on par with Tobirama
Old Hiruzen was war Tsunade level at best

Hiruzen was more about precision than brute force.

I think Hiruzens shadow clone spam + every element styles counters most people. We saw how broken Naruto was with Shadow clones. Lightning style should counter wood style and Tobiramas water style. Shadow clones are a good way to deal with flying raijin as hes only cutting down clones with it as well.

Dealing with Sage mode would be hard but we never found out if Hiruzen could go monkey sage mode. His pole staff was strong enough to push the 9 tales so its fair to assume it could tank Hashirama's wood golems or buddha statue

>at very least on par with Tobirama
lmao

People keep saying that Prime Hiruzen was at least as strong as Tobirama, but even putting aside physical degredation, Tobirama never puts out a Jutsu as impressive as anything Tobirama does. Age doesn't stop people from using Jutsu it just makes them weaker physically. Chiyo and Onooki were still able to put out their signature jutsu when they were both old as fuck.

Tier goes like this
>God Tier
Anything from Juubito and beyond which ia still quite wide itself
>Founders
Hashirama and Madara at their prime. At this level Bijuus are just pet to them. BSM pre god Naruto also goes here but weaker than both yet miles ahead of everyone elses
>Borderline
Nagato, Rinne Obito, mastered EMS Sasuke and such, no prodigy will ever reach this level without hack codes
>High Kage
Itachi, Minato, Tobirama and such
>Mid Kage
Most of Akatsuki, Ay, Onoki, Tsunade, base Jman and such
>Low Kage
Mei, Hidan, pre war KEKashi and such
>Elite jonin
Part 1 Kakashi, Zabuza, Yamato, Asuma and such.

>Hiruzens shadow clone spam + every element styles counters most people
Hiruzen is so overrated because of that. i don't even think we've ever seen him use all elements, that's more of a Rinnegan thing (Nagato never bothered to use it though). Jiraiya is basically a better Hiruzen, he's got 3/4 elements but a lot of other things on top of that and much more firepower.

Age canonically rots away at Chakra reserves as its litterly meant to be "life force" so the older you are the less Chakra you have as well. Thus why Hiruzen only made 2 clones against the hokage

>Dealing with Sage mode would be hard but we never found out if Hiruzen could go monkey sage mode.
Firstly, if he could have, he would have. Secondly, there's nothing saying that the monkeys even have a sage form. As far as we know, the only three animals with ancient sages that teach sage mode are the Slugs, Frogs, and Snakes. Those were the only three mentioned when they explained the unexplored regions.
Hashirama seemed to go some sort of non-animal sage mode, so Hiruzen could've probably learned that assuming it wasn't tied to Hashirama's kekkai genkai, but again, if he could he would've against Orochimaru.

>. i don't even think we've ever seen him use all elements

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.. why did this retard use Katon on Katon instead of Suiton? And so on

>Age canonically rots away at Chakra reserves as its litterly meant to be "life force" so the older you are the less Chakra you have as well.
>Canonically
Name one time where this is stated. Again, Chiyo and Onoki are both older than Hiruzen and pull jutsu out that put what he can do to shame.

what bothers me is that he has the talent for all basic elements, yet only matched elements instead of using the appropriate countering element.