/HRTGen/ HRT General #409 - /HRTGen/ HRT General #409 Edition

it's unclear how detrimental adding prog early is. But I wouldn't add it until you've maxed breast growth without it. No real upsides to starting early but lots of potential downsides.

>that's strange
yeah it's weird, my boyfriend does my injections so I know he's going deep enough. I was hoping for better E levels and from how I actually feel in general I think they probably are higher but this sexual function stuff is stressing me out. It is the only sign of high T though so maybe I'm just paranoid

>I know he's going deep enough
You should have good levels even with subcutaneous E2 so who that's definitely not the issue. Strange indeed

shorter half-life though so maybe after 2 days there's no E left to suppress T till the next injection. I am also on 25mg Spiro 2x per day though and I've never had an issue with T on that low of a dose.

If you're doing sublingual you should absolutely split it, sublingual is very spikey so if you do 2 all at once your e will shoot up for an hour or two then drop shortly after
I'm doing 6mg sub and I take 1mg every 3-4 hours
Picrel

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>shorter half-life though so maybe after 2 days there's no E left to suppress T till the next injection.
that's not how this works at all. When injected subQ or IM the EV solution forms a small depot that is absorbed over time. There's no substantial difference as to where the depot is located.

>Want HRT but with minimal tits
Where does this leave me in terms of breaking regular conventions? Like, can I just start with 6mg sublingual E instead of ramping it up from 2mg to 6mg gradually? Can I start prog much sooner?

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hey all
been taking 4mg sublingual E and 50mg bica daily for a few months. got lab results back, my T levels are still not behaving (180 ng/dl), but are way lower than they used to be. everything else seems fine.
should i up either my E dose or bica dose? does it matter which one? im thinking of taking 6mg E or 75mg of bica a day.

>last october, was doing 7mg EV/5 days + 200mg spiro and levels were 360pg/ml E2 and 10ng/dl T
>lower dose to 6mg, test a month later, 365pg/ml E2, 14 ng/dl T, 6.7 ng/dlDHT and 76 SHBG
>test again 2 months later, 487 E2, 32 ng/dl T, 9.7 ng/dl DHT and 105 SHBG
what happened? how is it that I have higher e2 but also higher T and dht? i think i might have injected more than 6mg for a week or two before and that cycle i got tested, so could this be it? and it had also been longer than normal before i had taken the first 100mg of spiro. if anyone can help out, i’m super confused and paranoid about this.

hows this?

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Always raise E2, not AA.
Injectable E2 has to ramp up somehow even though the literature doesn't support that. I've been on 4mg/wk EV for the last year and my levels went from 220pg/ml to 360pg/ml. T did increase as well, up to 22 from 3

this is awesome if you're FTM (probably)
If you're MTF are you even on HRT?

god i hate u ppl sometimes u know so little about the inner workings

50mg bica adequately covers ~300ng/dl of testosterone which is greater than 2500x the concentration of bica to testosterone.
To adequately block testosterone you need a minimum of a 1000 fold excess of bica to testosterone (or 10000 fold if you want to be super duper safe).
So, you're fine.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacology_of_bicalutamide#Drug_levels

One things to note is that it doesn't lower testosterone (it raises it, but e helps to counter this); this is due to bica binding to ARs then blocking them (it's a "silent antagonist" at the AR level so no gene transcription) rather than lowering LH like other AAs (cypro, GnRH).

high dose from start helps to stunt growth as it signals the protective pathways in breasts, I've also read in quite a few animal studies that it helps to stunt growth, but on the otherhand you have to have a low bmi (18-19bmi) or else aromatase (from having more adipocytes/better leptin response/etc) will help with breast growth (which can counteract this high levels being detrimental to breast growth as aromatase helps to dysregulate those protective mechanisms).
use a raloxifene gel on breasts as it binds to/blocks ERa (you will need to buy raws and make your own gel).
you could also use a low dose of an aromatase inhibitor as to further prevent breast growth if you're higher in weight/bmi.

>Can I start prog much sooner?
prog from the start has variable efficacy in reducing breast growth. sometimes it's one person's golden ticket for growth and for others it may slow growth if given too early. very much YMMV here, but in animal studies high dose vs high dose + prog doesn't do much (only really in lower doses does prog help growth).

you either read that wrong or are trying to misinform them
they have 22ng/dl T and 342pg/ml e2, which are good lvls

>you either read that wrong or are trying to misinform them
ok good i was getting worried about that

I'm so goddamn terrified to do this, holy shit. I'm going in with no blood tests, I know I'm just gonna end up killing myself or going blind or something, Jesus Christ.

should i stay on the 6mg? or increase to 7mg? i’d like it to be back at 10-15 like it was before. and also is a month enough time to retest?

yw, but please do some basic research and learn what acceptable ranges are user. don't just rely on strangers for everything baka

Relax.

Yeah, but what if I get brain tumors and die? Or prolactinoma and die? Or something I don't even expect, like a heart attack somehow? I'm tired of being afraid to do things in my life, I need to do this, but what if I just mindlessly stifle this fear for every step along the way and end up getting hurt? There's no undo switch, I'll just get cancer and fuck my life up, or die, or something else terrible will happen. There's no "I'll deal with it if it happens," no, it's cancer, you can't deal with it when it happens, it happens and that's it, it's over.

you had a whole thread about that?
still fine

>Always raise E2, not AA.
thanks, makes sense
>So, you're fine.
thanks, i kinda suspected this but wasn't sure

Okay well if you're gonna be paranoid and full of needless fears then stick to monotherapy E2 with sublingual estrogen or injections.
You're going to get a heart attack, calm down.

I guess it is needless. I'm sorry. I'll have these huge episodes where I'm scared to death of it all, and then there will be lulls where I'm more confident and excited.

This is, like, medical OCD. you need to remind yourself that you'll be okay.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have OCD. The problem with reminding myself that I'll be ok is that I don't really know that I will. I can infer, based on anecdotal and scientific information, that I will be, but I don't really know. Thank you for trying to calm me down, I'll stop being like this.

HRT with no tits user here, thanks for the response. I'm also wondering if I can cut raloxifene/tamoxifene and instead go get top surgery if I ever grow breasts later down the road. Or maybe even before I start HRT, as far as I know if they extract much of the breast tissue I should be seeing minimal growth later on hormones. What would be the starting regimen if getting top surgery before HRT/after some HRT is an option?

I guess what I want to know is what would you add to the methods section of if breasts were of no concern, at all. If they stay small, great. If not I will chop them off. Do you know any research on this topic (apart from transfemscience which deals with minimizing breasts as opposed to(?) maximizing other HRT effects) and the femboy survey?

Again, thanks for all your responses

literature does support e2 levels building up with injections and other forms of e2. it's overlap of HL/CL, depot effect, and certain forms/RoA of e2 are better at forming a reservoir of e via e1s/e2s. well known

yw

>if I can cut raloxifene/tamoxifene and instead go get top surgery if I ever grow breasts later down the road.
>Or maybe even before I start HRT
for sure, keyhole surgery would work well, as it's removing the buds; same for before hrt
i have heard of a lot of cases of no-tit wanters later changing their mind so maybe hold off on top-surgery before u figure yourself out on hrt (as it does change things).

>What would be the starting regimen if getting top surgery before HRT/after some HRT is an option?
Maintain high e2 levels via injection, and so that'd be 300pg/ml or higher @trough.
EV would be best as super high spikes (e.g. 10mg/7days).
use this calculator as to find a dose:
transfemscience.org/misc/injectable-e2-simulator/
another option would be an e2 implant for high and consistent levels, but those are hard to get unless you're in aus.

although, with e in your system even with high doses you'll get breast bud development, and so you'd need topical/oral ralox if u want to slow it even more; an aromatase inhibitor would help too.
as mentioned bmi contributes too so keep bmi low.
for weight cycling while not wanting breasts what u want to do is bind breasts.
this is because binding breasts puts compressive forces on the ECM which helps prevent the related stem cells from differentiating into adipocytes/fat cells.
if you're also on an aromatase inhibitor topical T to boobs would help too.
also if you're on nicotine then good as the metabolites are aromatase inhibitors.

>Do you know any research on this topic
most of my research here is just using the opposite of what i've found helps with breast growth
not sure on other compiled resources but there's plenty of papers out there

cont.

>I guess what I want to know is what would you add to the methods section of
>if breasts were of no concern, at all
oh, yea i made those, but umm yea i generally don't speak about the methods for breast growth here as i have no interesting in citing things all the time
u can ask for my discord (user who made hrtgen guides) on the hrtgen server and someone will direct u to me if u want to discuss it more

I need some advice ASAP! I have been on pill hrt for awhile and like a few months ago began doing E doses sublingually and progesterone rectally every day. It feels like my facial hair is growing faster? Same may be true for my pubic hair but it's hard to say.

What testing can I do to figure out what's going on here? I'm expecting that the changes I've made have led to increased E and lower T - I've noticed that my testes have shrunk. But what else is going on that could explain the hair growth? I've done a ton of laser in the past so this facial hair growth doesn't make sense to me. Please help! Dosages below.

Estradiol (6mg Sublingual split 3mg am, 3mg pm)
Spiro (100mg in am)
Progesterone (100mg, rectal pm)

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Prog can cause increased hair growth like what youre describing. Go off of it for a bit, you shouldn't be on prog until at least 1 year hrt anyways. If you wanna verify, test your DHT levels.

>What testing can I do to figure out what's going on here?
If you don't have historical data of beard growth, nothing. You literally are obsessing over a variable that changes naturally even without exogenous hormones, based off of a feelings. There is no hard data in your post that indicates any need to reevaluate your HRT.

The only thing that exists is impatience and brain worms. "A few months" could be 10 weeks or 16 weeks, and neither of those needs any change and then you FEEL like your hair might be growing faster maybe but it's hard to say? Calm down.

Or randomly change to some other method, people like injections don't they.

I've been on hrt for years now. I didn't have this going on before I did sublingual E and rectal prog BUT I definitely had low E and high-ish T when I was just swallowing my pills.
I'm pro injections but they aren't an option. I'm asking for what testing could provide insight here. The only data point now is that I'm shaving my face more often - far more often than I did when I was just swallowing pills.

bump

I’ve been on hrt slightly over 6 months, injections. I have ordered prog and want to use it badly to increase libido, what are the real chances I’ll mess up my breast development? They’re definitely still small, but def there and noticeable.

I’m at around tanner stage 3

Are You Or another poster?

so is it confirmed that stomach acid destroys estradiol

whats hl/cl stand for

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance_(pharmacology)

letmegooglethat.com/?q=is estradiol destroyed by stomach acid

ok just wondering what the abbreviation stood for you didn't need a whole ass wikipedia link thanks
a simple yes or no would suffice and would be faster for both of us thanks

So what syringe gauges are good for SubQ EV/EC/EEn? Is 27G good for any?

How is it possible to look worse the longer I'm on hrt?

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can you monotherapy estradiol enanthate?

depends on the carrier oil thickness/viscosity and if there's a preservative that thins it
with castor oil 27g would work but it'd be quite the pain to pull it up, I prefer lower gauge for CO, but with MCT it being thinner it'd be a lot easier (so 27g would work great).
Personally, I'm impatient with drawing into the syringe, but on the otherhand I've heard 27g works just fine with castor. I always seem to get bubbles galore and it takes forever so I use a lower gauge (22g).

lol

yes, it's the best ester for monotherapy as u can inject less frequently
use the transfem levels calculator to find your dose:
transfemscience.org/misc/injectable-e2-simulator/

lol why is the dose lena told me like 3x higher than the dose this stuff recommends

lol yea lena does that
she gives out a catch-all dose to make sure anyone without blood tests will have suppressed testosterone

I cant afford bloods, should I go with her dose then? lol

in the usa it's like $80 for a T/E2 panel through quest it's not too pricey for every 6mo.
to be safe u can dose at a 300pg/ml trough though

so something like this?
im not us btw

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that would work yea, and ah ok understandable then
you could even go every 14 days with a higher dose if u want to inject less

ty for the help, last question though since this is a intramuscular calculator does that mean I can't use this dose for subcutaneous?

yw
subq and IM at least for EC is basically exactly the same for levels according to studies
EC and EEn are really similar molecules so it applies the same
so, same dose as the calc is perfectly fine

can you post the studies? i heard that s.c. in general has a longer half life than i.m. idk about E specifically

cool, thanks a bunch

here's the one i have saved
researchgate.net/profile/Miguel-Lujan-2/publication/51793800_Comparative_pharmacokinetics_and_pharmacodynamics_after_subcutaneous_and_intramuscular_administration_of_medroxyprogesterone_acetate_25_mg_and_estradiol_cypionate_5_mg/links/5f51366ba6fdcc9879c990fd/Comparative-pharmacokinetics-and-pharmacodynamics-after-subcutaneous-and-intramuscular-administration-of-medroxyprogesterone-acetate-25-mg-and-estradiol-cypionate-5-mg.pdf

yw

thanks user. it does look like s.c. has about 10% higher levels between day 2 and 8 post injection but yea it's not that big of a difference.

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Were you a chad?

No. I was and still am ugly masculine boy

I'm a femboy planning on taking hrt sometime this year, likely soon when I move out, but I'm still wondering a fair few things

Keep in mind I'm mostly interested in hrt for aesthetics, I'd like to appear more feminine, and I'd like many of its effects such as smoother skin, less muscle mass (and potential height reduction from that), less body hair, wider hips, fat redistribution. Also preventing baldness is a huge pro for me. I have no intention of passing as female as I'm confident in my gender identity already. I'd basically be going 50/50 from "boymoding" vs dressing more fem. Goals are something like picrel, but I'm obviously willing to settle for less.

how should I go about doing it?
would it be better to diy everything, or would transitioning normally and talking to a doctor be better. if I do transition normally should i specify I'm a male and would just prefer estrogen, or full on fake gender dysphoria? If I diy how can I figure out how much to take, how often, when, ect?

As a side note to that, if I went the official route I'd plan to do so after moving out. Would it be a good idea to start with diy and later move to doing things the official way?

Is there any way to avoid breast growth?
I'd prefer not to have large breasts, small budding breasts might be fine, and I'd welcome and likely even prefer it, but I'm just afraid of them getting too big. Is there any ways to avoid this?

would/should my process differ from trans women?
Since I'm still a male would it be better if I fully transition with hrt like a trans woman, or would it be better to be taking less if possible. should I skip or avoid anything like maybe no AA? Would injections work better?

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I'm considering detransitioning, I've been on EV from otokonoko and injecting every 5 days with 0.18ml. How should I gradually taper off and how long until its safe to stop for good

Just do like 1mg every 5 days, 0.025ml, for a few months and then stop taking E. Huge varience in how long it takes for gonadal production to resume though.

>gonadal production to resume
I'm going to have faith that will happen since I've only been on hrt for a year while two people I've spoken to, one who detransitioned for good after 3 years, told me they eventually regained sperm production.

Any others word in what to do with detransitioning

just go cold turkey lol. i mean it sucks for a while but if i lived then youll live.

that sounds dangerous

i too detranstioned after a couple of years and sperm came back
can't remember how long it took to come back tho
also like the other user said go cold turkey, estradiol doesn't really have any dangerous withdrawal effects like spiro or cypro can have

Ok so back in December I went in for a blood test and my prolactin was high, at 593 µUI/m, with prolactin after PEG at 241 µUI/mL. My doc said it was fine since PEG prolactin was still in the normal range. Estradiol was at 239 pg/mL at through after 5 days, so it's not overly high, I use Lena EV juice and inject 0.16 ml.

Thing is, today I just secreted some shit from my nipples, I uhhhhhh, had some fun... and afterward, my shirt got a bit wet around one of the nipples. Am I getting a prolactinoma? I never had elevated prolactin, not even when I was on CPA at the start of the transition. The only difference is I am taking 0.25 bical now for like 6 months because my dht was high even with e monotherapy.

I meant 25 mg of bical, am stupid.

truthfully I think my real reason for wanting to taper is to hold onto these effects that have helped my hair... my temples are showing signs of regrowth and in 8-10 months I could probably see it looking normally again.

have you tested yourself to see if your sperm is capable of reproduction? also what about your libido and erections, did they come back again too

>hair
Yes hair is definitely a good reason to stay on HRT... although you could also use finasteride or dutasteride to at the very least stop hair loss

>have you tested yourself to see if your sperm is capable of reproduction?
No, though I'm pretty sure in general that fertility does come back to some extent, I've heard anecdotes of MtFs going off HRT to get their partners pregnant

>also what about your libido and erections, did they come back again too
Yes my libido reverted back into my old male libido at some point, which meant being almost constantly horny. As for erections, I was still able to get erections whenever I wanted to on HRT, the main differences with pre-HRT were no random erections, weaker erections, also a weaker longer lasting orgasm. But yea all of that went back to normal after a while

6ish year mtf
>dry orgasms
>it oozes out when I lose the erection
I had curvature correction surgery on my dick about 4 years ago which involved having sutures put in one side of it.
The timing of things makes it hard to tell if this is from hrt or if my "hose" is being pinched off from the inside while I'm erect. How can I find out for sure, can I even?

>fina
fina will prove to be really expensive for me...

how long exactly were you on hrt and what method
>injection
>pills
>patches

2.5 years, first few months were on pills and cypro, then I switched to injection monotherapy for the remainder

Hi, I don't know where else to ask this, I thought there would be a stupid questions thread on this board. I stumbled upon this transvalues quiz, and since I'm fond of quizzes I took it, but I have no idea what any of this means. Could you, please, explain? Thanks.
transvalues.github.io/results.html?e=67.8&d=42.9&g=74.5&s=39.6

Means you're pro gatekeeping and see the goal of transitioning to blend into cishet society. Fairly disgusting attitude tbqhfam

Just create a thread about it. This board loves shit like that. But yeah agree with

Gatekeeping what?
>Goal of transitioning to blend into cishet society
There was a question which looked like what you typed here, but I genuinely think a guy should transition for himself, not society; almost anything done for society can be very troublesome for the individual himself, imho

>just create a thread about it
perhaps that would've made more sense than posting offtopic in this thread, but I didn't feel like killing a whole thread in a board I never visit

Both posts are me.

>but I didn't feel like killing a whole thread in a board I never visit
If it's on page 10 it probably deserved it.

>goals are something like picrelated
>just a woman with short hair

>would it be better to diy everything
duh
if you live in a country/state with informed consent you should probably do that though. just show up, sign some papers, and get prescription. they won't care if you lie and say you wanna be a woman or if you claim you're non-binary or whatever.
>Is there any way to avoid breast growth?
SERMs like Ralox are your best bet.
Read the OP for more.
>Would injections work better
Plausible. Skip the AA side effects and some suspect megadosing E early is bad for growth.

hi sorry to be annoying, but I’d like T to go back down to where it was before at like 10-14 or so, should I stay on the 6mg and test again in a month or so or bump it up to 7mg? sorry

if you want to be a femboy you probably still want functionality in your benis and erections
that being said to avoid problems there you might want to go below the recommended dosage

Go up to 7mg if you liked your lower T. Should be completely fine friend.

ok, thank u!!

is a 25g needle a good size for e injections?

I'm on 150mg zoloft, can I start taking 50mg bica and 2mg oral e, or will I get fucked over by irregular heart rhythms or something? I'm going to be going in without blood tests too :/ I was settled on cypro until I read that zoloft boosts prolactin so now I'm not sure what to do and feel like crying.

Mixing SSRI's with hrt is fine.

I asked my endo for ev injections and got this as a reply “ We don't usually administer estrogen by injection because it is very easy to overdose on it by injection.”
Yet every blood test ive taken has been < 200pg/mL. Is she trying to hon dose me, I know injections are industry standard. Not sure what to say

>We don't usually administer estrogen by injection because it is very easy to overdose on it by injection.

Does she only deal with children? Injections are easy enough to do yourself if you have more than one brain cell to rub together.

>Yet every blood test ive taken has been < 200pg/mL
It's going to be more difficult to get above 200pg/mL using oral or even sublingual compared to injections. I'd say if you've been on HRT for a while and your levels aren't something you're satisfied with, switch to injections

I’m not sure, i dont think she has many trans patients. Im ordering lena as soon as Im able to.
I was 16 when I started, moved to her at 18, 5 years on

is 12.5 mg cypro and 6 mg e (3mg morning then 3 at night) a good starting dose? or should i lower the e a lil bit then go higher later?

I'm not worried about mixing with estrogen, I'm worried about its interaction with AAs and this has me especially worried. I'm already worried about the liver thing because I won't be getting blood tests but now I have to worry about my heart giving out. I'm upset because I finally convinced myself cypro was okay after so long.

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So any explanation for this? Or is that just what happens early on (first 6 months)?

bro it's completely safe only a 1% chance to literally fucking die bro! that's basically 0!!!!

You're probably just in the uncanny tranny stage where you have a mixture of male and female features

I can't even tell if this is ironic or not. You're more likely to die like this than in a car crash

Just stick to monotherapy if you're worried.
Nothing a little bit of sublingual or intramuscular E can't fix.

It's fine, but I'd choose 2mg twice a day instead.

why does the the Burnier study tower above the rest, me confused

Is it possible to do mono therapy without blood tests?

does having high e make u rly horny? im on 12.5 mg cypro and 0.18ml injections and im so horny all the fucking time if i drop it down will it get any better?

yes

Yes.

Should you take your AA before a lab test whenever you normally do or wait until after? Or is it just the E you wait on

How much would I need to take? I was planning on oral e but I guess that's out of the cards now

bump

My testosterone has gotten really really low even by hrt standards and I'm suspicious thats the reason I feel so tired and low energy lately. (we're talking like so low it can barely bet detected).
My doctor expressed some concern but didnt do anything, should I reduce my estradiol valerate dose a tiny bit? my E levels were also higher than they should be or should I look in to topical T gel or something?

Yes. You can do the semen test. Basically check whether the fluid you produce (if any at all) before/during/after ejaculation is clear. If it's clear that means no/low sperm and no/low sperm means no/low T (look up HPG axis, sex hormones (like estradiol) bind with hypothalamus and signals pituitary to signal gonads to stop both sperm and T production). Assumes no major intersex condition of course. Also take note of any physical/mental changes you experience, because that's what it's all about right?
Varies widely for each person, even with injections the monotherapy dose can be anywhere between ~3 - 10 mg of estradiol valerate per week. 10 mg is the recommended failsafe dose, but it's best to start low and work your way up over a few months and observe your changes. No need to rush, unless you're balding in which case get on finasteride/dutasteride ASAP. Also oral/sublingual is fine some people get good levels with those routes just try not to go over 8 mg, if you must then switch to injections

Should I cash out and switch to dutasteride if I'm taking 1 mg fin? I seem to be maintaining, even minor regrowth with minoxidil + microneedling but if duta will help further it might be worth it? Or am I limited by the potential of min + microneedling creating new hairs?