Hi, I have very limited knowledge about the dragon ball series and I wanted to ask you guys if you also somehow feel that goku's power is highly inconsistent, when he fought Beerus he was able to shake the universe with ssg, but with the same transformation he could do almost nothing to Broly in his base form (correct me if he was weakened then, or if I'm mentally retarded, I have limited knowledge) and also the whole thing when Goku in ssj mode got hit with a rock by Krillin and got hurt (anime only) plus the stuff with the laser while he was in ssb mode.
I know you guys propably hear these questions a lot, but I don't want to start a debate here, I just want to know if there is a specific something that I'm missing. Or if inconsistent events like this happen more often in dragon ball.
Because Bejita is just better, kuckurat kneels to Bejita.
Jonathan Scott
Vegeta>Goku?
Elijah Lopez
No flesh body is specially strong without being reinforced with ki, so attacking Goku with a laser when he has lowered his energy works.
And he couldn't do jackshit to Broly because Broly is the legendary saiyan of its gen, his base form already forced Vegeta to go SSG, then the thing in your pic is ten times stronger than that (since it's explained his buff mode is him harnessing the power of Ozaru, a 10x multiplier, without changing into an actual giant monkey)
Evan Bennett
Super is not known for being terribly consistent, moreso than Z, that said, >but with the same transformation he could do almost nothing to Broly in his base form I recall Broly is just that strong. Keep in mind Broly is a character from a filler movie that's been slowly retconned into Super. A similar character in top had a similar rage form and it was implied to be based on broly. So this character/broly simply has a LSS transformation that works differently than goku's ssg, i guess that is it.
Kevin Turner
So all he needs to do for his super strong durability is to cover his body with ki? But why was he hurt by a laser, even though he was on ssb? Doesn't ssb already reinforce ki to his body, since he got so much ki radiating from him? Or is it manual?
Brayden Howard
Ah, so he just built different?
Xavier Diaz
There is nothing you missed, it is lazy writing that is only good for driving the plot toward an awesome fight scene. Nu-Broly is somehow stronger and faster than SSG and manages well against regular SSB. How he gained all this power? Fighting dinosaurs and eating raw bullshit on a planet and "happened' to be born with all his strength. Old Broly used to make sense because one could rationalize the true Legendary Super Saiyan being born close to, if not stronger than the level of Majin Buu, but to be born stronger than a Destroyer and SSB without fusion? Without training as Potato doesn't train Broly in this movie, without proper combat prowess besides rabid instinct, without proper technique, without proper ki control. Its a bad movie and bad writing and the only reason you watch it is for the awesome fights as previously mentioned, and the long awaited expansion of the Planet Vegeta lore.
Nicholas Cox
Yes, also it's not unknown for characters to simply have a higher PL even in base form. When Vegeta arrived, goku's and vegeta's/nappa's PLs fluctuated a whole lot. They don't need ssj even if it's a boost.
> I know you guys propably hear these questions a lot Honestly no, because most people inherently understand that Dragon Ball stopped making sense a long time ago and have just learned to accept that. In the newest arc in the manga where Goku and Vegeta are the strongest they’ve ever been they still get hurt by being punched through trees or being hit by a train. It’s not just a Super thing either as characters in the Cell arc were already a million times more durable than any material on earth but could still be knocked into a big rock and be hurt by that.
Michael Harris
You think this place is reddit or something?
Jaxson Robinson
Power levels and forms in the manga/show serve as a crutch, it always is about the spectacle and instead of creating new, unique ways of using ki, Toryaia and co just pump power level numbers and newly colored hair into the mix. Story needs Broly, at this exact moment, be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta, so they can fuse and create a spectacle of wonderfully choreographed battle. Dragon ball stopped making sense after Frieza's arc, so just enjoy the ride if you like colorful fights and try not to think too hard of what's going on with world building.
shaking the universe was a symptom of controlling his power poorly. training with whis fixed that. its the same as how the first time goku went ss3 it caused earthquakes and shit but that didn't happen on the supreme kai world or when gotenks used it >the whole thing when Goku in ssj mode got hit with a rock by Krillin and got hurt (anime only) plus the stuff with the laser while he was in ssb mode. 'powering up' raises your durability at the cost of stamina. The point of goku's super saiyan training before the cell games was to stay super saiyan while powered down so your body got used to the strain of staying transformed. the point of the laser, as stated by Whis at the start of the movie, is that Goku has a bad habit of powering down when he thinks the battle is over without confirmation.
The overarching thing as a character flaw of Goku in Super is that his ability to power up is handicapped by his wakuwaku-ism. The more excited he is the easier it is for him to power up but he's only at medium levels of excitement about fighting someone he's not fighting at full potential, he gets sloppy, and it leaves him open for opponents to blitz him with attacks that wouldn't work if he was fully powered up. and after that even when he does fully power up in response he's still damaged from the shit he copped while he was playing around. Which itself all ties back to Ultra Instinct. Angels like Whis are always in an ultra instinct state so anything that is an actual threat to them gets countered with exactly as more power needed to neutralize it, no matter how relaxed they are.
But Angels aren't swayed by their emotions while saiyans are super swayed by their emotions to the point where its one of their primary sources of power. So Goku trying to master ultra instinct is at odd with his own nature. The current arc of the manga has a subplot about Goku trying to develop his own form of the ultra instinct school of fighting that works with his wakuwaku.
Nothing inconsistent. The Goku in the Broly movie was post ToP, and therefore stronger than the Goku that fought Beerus. Beerus however, was holding back a lot. Broly on the other hand is a genetic freak who gets stronger as he fights. He went from getting beaten by base Vegeta to overpowering SS1 Vegeta in seconds. Even Vegeta himself says this.
How does Super Saiyan strain your body if you’re powered down? And what does it even mean to transform into Super Saiyan if it’s not powering you up?
John Howard
Haha, thanks user, you have lifted the fog in my head very well. But I have a question, isn't the reason why Goku is mastering Ultra Instinct, to be like Whis, in a sense that he gets rid of his bad habit and to control his emotions better (at least that's what I heard)? If so, why is he trying to develop a new Ultra Instinct thing where he embraces his emotions (I hope this isn't a stupid question)?
