Thread title. Nobody complains about >O MY DEMON ANCESTRAL DAD Or >O MY DOUBLE DRAGON CREST
Or if they do, it never seems to "ruin" the characters or the stories from them. What is it about these veritable asspulls that makes so inoffensive, or even excusable? Is it because the characters have qualities that make up for them? Is it because the characters are just so likeable that people are willing to look over them? Or is it because something about the way they're done that makes less egregious than usual?
What are the ingredients for an asspull that your audience can excuse, or won't be offended by much?
And yes, the topic of this thread was inspired by all the buzz around One Piece right now.
>Nobody complains about O MY DEMON ANCESTRAL DAD From what I can tell everyone on Any Forums nearly universally agrees it was a retarded asspull and the final arc was the worst one of YYH. It was bad then and it's bad now.
Matthew Perez
They do agree it was bad, yes, but I've yet to every see anybody say that it "ruined" Yusuke's character, let alone YYH as a whole. It's more like "yeah it was bad", and then just live with it/accept it and continue loving the series and the character.
Juan Barnes
Oga Tatsumi "daddy switch". Just a father trying harder to meet his son expectations.
Lincoln King
can't ruin it if it's bad from the start
Kayden Howard
Both trash
Gavin Reed
It only recontextualizes why Yusuke is as powerful as he is. Not his entire character and we already knew he was irregularly powerful
Hudson Reed
I feel like people are missing the point of this thread, please read the whole point.
It's not "why these asspulls weren't bad?" it's why "these bad asspulls did not offend the audience of their respective series so much they denounced it or the characters they're the subject of?".
Julian Torres
I see what you mean. In YYH it was never strongly impressed as a theme that Yusuke was just your average hardworker and that anybody could become the best there ever was. That's not to excuse the asspull, but it doesn't necessarily directly contradict what came before, it just cheapens the previous material. In Naruto, for example, there is an entire battle centered around fate and talent vs. no-talent hard work, and Naruto wins in the end against Neji which shows which ideology is correct. It even changes Neji's character going forward and he focuses less on status of birth and all of that jazz. Later on this is completely contradicted by Naruto being ninja Jesus (and to a lesser extent the 4th's son), and it shows that even if you work hard like Rock Lee, what matters more is to have amazing divine powers Deus ex Machina'd to you.
We're kinda shitposting with One Piece because the full chapter isn't out yet, but Luffy being dragons son was already equivalent to Naruto being the 4th hokage's son. The story was really focused on Gold Roger spawning a new pirate era where anybody could journey on the Grand Line and have a chance at finding his treasure and making a name for themselves. Of course there is still natural talent and it's not all about hard work, but Luffy wasn't supposed to be anything special, just a random kid that ate a somewhat worthless devil fruit that makes you stretchy. Through tons of hard work and wit he turned the Gomu Gomu into a powerful weapon (especially when combining it with haki). Now if Luffy is some reincarnation of Joyboy or something to that effect, that will be his "pirate Jesus" moment. It's completely unnecessary and adds nothing to the story that came before.
Leo Wood
OK, that's a fair answer. Do you think the recontextualization of Yusuke's power affects the integrity of his character journey in any way?
Brandon Russell
The series aren't in a death spiral.
Joshua Barnes
Yusuke and Dai were likeable beyond being "literally me/hardworking nobody" and their stories never really preached about free will and freedom.
Gabriel Fisher
People don't care about asspulls unless they're particularly egregious. The main reason for Hisoka's revival creating such a shitstorm is because of niggastreams' translation, had they gone with the same wording that VIZ did it wouldn't even be talked about anymore. O MY "X" is just too citable, and as a result of this phrase becoming a meme people try to apply it to anything they can possibly think of in order to acquire (You)'s.
Juan Smith
I see. So to summarize your post, without taking anything away from it via reduction, you think "so long as asspulls don't damage the integrity of the series' central themes or established character arcs, they will not ruin anything", yes? If so, I can agree with that. Thinking of >O MY DEMON ANCESTOR and >O MY DOUBLE DRAGON CRESTS It's true, neither of them actually clash with either series' themes, or the characters of Yusuke and Dai. I guess that's why people are willing to live with them and continue loving these stories anyway.
That's a very good answer, user.
Landon Fisher
Super Saiyan was built up throughout the entire saga and considered the peak of DBZ Pulling the Exodia is also amazing because it was built up as an impossible card and Yugi waas right on the edge at that moment
Difference between Asspull and actual power ups are the built up leading to it - including training and tests of strenght/faith in your friends. The character has to pay for it
I think that pretty much summarizes it. Another example in shonen as of late is Dr. Stone, which just ended a few days ago. The last arc is basically a Cliffsnotes speedrun of civilizational development and building a rocket to go to space. It really wasn't an interesting read, and was pretty disappointing how much was skimmed over through timeskips. They went from barely any infrastructure to the moon in like 7 years, it's pretty bullshit, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate the previous work because the characters are still shown as working hard through problems to correct their mistakes. The end result felt cheap, but did not invalidate the themes that came before it in regards to science being about diligence and trial&error. An even more retarded asspull in the last chapter has the MC attempting to build a time machine to fix the cataclysm that happens in chapter 1. It's stupid, but it doesn't invalidate the MC's characterization presented throughout the story. He always says "I want to save every last person on earth" and while that's basically impossible in the context of the story, he continues down that path because his ideals remain consistent. Even if in-universe a time machine is maybe feasible due to the sci-fi tech explained in prior chapters, it feels stupid, but it doesn't make reading the earlier chapters any less enjoyable. I think that's the key.
Matthew Stewart
Then you have the Golden Book from Konjiki no Gash/Zatch Bell. It's not foreshadowed at all but it's the thematic payoff for an entire story of MC doing his damndest to befriend everyone and being a king that inspires loyalty through kindness, and having that returned with literally everyone coming back to help bail him out. It's about the least egregious asspull you can have in a series since it complements the story themes and the strength of the characters.
Adrian Cox
If there is no setup then it's an asspull period
Jace Walker
YYH was good in the sense that there was a thematic reason for it. Sensui was a human fighting to end humans and Yusuke became a demon fighting to save humans.
Eli Nelson
>In YYH it was never strongly impressed as a theme that Yusuke was just your average hardworker and that anybody could become the best there ever was I think that's a good point. Yusuke was always depicted as a normal-ass dude who doesn't particularly want to do the spirit detective shit, but just sorta got dragged into it and is too moral to really turn his back on it. The demon heritage stuff is bullshit, but it plays out more or less the same way. When the powers unlock, it's not treated as a big triumphant moment. Yusuke's just pissed by how the whole situation played out and kind of annoyed that he'll have to go deal with Raizen now. He agrees to help Raizen because he doesn't want to see the guy suffer, but he also immediately forfeits his seat on the throne because he just wants to get the situation taken care of and go home. It ends up leading to a lot of nice character moments, so it's hard to be too mad at it.
