Oh wow so this big news. With 7nm chips, China is actually ahead of Intel, which means that China's foundries is actually more advanced then America and Europe. Only Taiwan and Korea can make 7nm and 5nm chips. Intel is stuck on 10nm.
Seeing as how China just started producing 14nm chips in 2020, most experts were expecting them to start producing 7nm chips in the next DECADE. They completely skipped 12nm and 10nm. The fact that they just pulled 7nm out their ass means they went from 8-10 years behind the cutting edge to 3-5 years behind and also means they have the capability to be completely self sufficient in semi-conductors.
Seeing as 7nm is very competitive and is sufficient enough for anything but the most cutting edge phones, China may just give up on developing a EUV system and just focus on a next gen chip technology that skips silicon all together, since you're never getting smaller then 3nm/2nm on silicon. No need to spend trillions on a EUV system get to to 2nm and get stuck there as moore's law dies.
This also implies that they have found some good ways to use their existing DUV systems, or found some way to upgrade them. This means that there's no real way for the US to sanction them anymore, they don't need EUV since 7nm can be used for basically anything. The only thing the US can do to hamper them at this point is to completely ban the sale of DUV systems to China, and even that won't work for long, since China is probably 2-3 years away from mass producing a domestic DUV system that's as advanced as ASML.
This is probably what made America start demanding that AMSL banned all sales of DUV equipment to China last week, it's probably the only thing that they can do to slow China's semiconductor industry down at this point.
There's downsides of course, without EUV, the 7nm chips that China produces is more expensive, more difficult to make and probably has lower yield and slightly less performance then TSMC's 7nm chips.
ASML sold to China anyway. Americans can't outjew us.
Blake Fisher
US cares because the day china surpasses taiwan in chips and becomes self reliant is the day they'll invade the island. that's the only real reason why the us is "worried" numbnuts
Jace Green
>smaller and more efficient manufacturing process Why are we falling for this meme again? Transistors placed progressively closer to each other will generate more heat
Lincoln Kelly
The future of semi-conductors is to make 3 dimensional CPU. It is already done for DRAM. Trying to go for 3nm 2 dimensional CPU is fine but probably extremely harder than 3 dimensional.
John Cruz
You wanna see 7nm? Here's 7nm *whips out dick*
Ethan Evans
updoot
Charles Sanders
Not the EUV system you're not. And seeing how much of America's little bitch you are, you're probably gonna ban the sale of DUV systems to China and just accelerate their domestic lithography market while delaying their plans by a year or so. They are still making them in Korea/Taiwan. Apple only designs the chips
Justin Lewis
no comment on china's progression because I haven't read about it however >Seeing as 7nm is very competitive lol >since you're never getting smaller then 3nm/2nm on silicon this is what they said about 7nm, 6nm and then 5 and 4nm but we have 3nm rolling out right now and 2nm in two years intel has 1.8nm coming up in 24/25 and sub-1nm has been demonstrated in research conditions
Brandon Wright
How? They don't have access to ASML machines right?
Matthew Bennett
They don't have access to EUV machines, but DUV is enough for 7nm. It's just alot more difficult and expensive without EUV. >lol 7nm can be used for basically anything other then the latest smartphones. >this is what they said about 7nm, 6nm and then 5 and 4nm No one said that >intel has 1.8nm coming up in 24/25 Intel has issues with 7nm and 5nm. There's no way they're getting 1.8nm in 24/25 >and sub-1nm has been demonstrated in research conditions Making it is not the issue. The issue is with quantum tunneling fucking with the transistors and making your chip unusable
Michael Parker
>America start demanding that AMSL banned all sales of DUV equipment to China last week >he seriously think perfidious swampjews will listen to Biden
Mason Sanders
why post this on Any Forums instead of Any Forums?
Henry Young
you don't need ASML ASML runs a near monopoly only because the cost of entry for developing photolithography is incredibly high to achieve a fraction of a market that isn't very profitable compared to the cost of entry the chinese are willing to eat that cost not because they want the market but because they want domestic production
>No one said that EVERYONE said that because of the quantum tunneling you mention it was considered, at the time, a completely unsolvable issue for sub-8 just like it is for sub-2 right now same goes for different scales and different problems in the history of the industry and you should know this if you knew anything about chip manufacturing
Adrian Reed
Beceuase it is far more about the international competition rather than just pure business of selling those things.
For me it is one of the best threads I've seen today and I would like to see more discussions like these instead of 'its over' shitposting. The level is already low as it is - and at least the threads like these where I learn something new from anons is the only thing that makes me come back here every now and then
David Moore
Any Forums doesn't care about that. If they did, you would have threads about how chinese EV makers are better than Tesla for both batteries and self-driving, which would prove that the current valuation of Tesla is completely bollock.
>most experts were expecting them to start producing 7nm chips in the next DECADE Untrue. It was public information SMIC had begun 7nm-class production in Q4 2020. >you're never getting smaller then 3nm/2nm on silicon >they don't need EUV since 7nm can be used for basically anything. Delusional, and cope.
Their 7nm-class process is a bad copy of TSMCs N7 process. In cost and performance, they are unlikely to be competitive beyond China. DUV at 7nm-class is basically at its limit. TSMC, Intel, and Samsung are all relying on quad-patterning. You aren't going below without EUV. Or rather, you could, but it would not be financially viable. Remains to be seen how well China will manage without western tools.
or Any Forums? (no I am not asking for orgy I meam the tech board)
Kayden Long
>probably what made America start demanding that AMSL banned all sales of DUV equipment to China last week I thought they were already pressured to stop doing business with China altogether a few years back.
