I finally got around to watching this garbage because I thought it would just be a comfy viewing of a trainwreck, but if anything I'm now even MORE confused by all the outrage and drama that came about when it released.
Why did internet hivemind consensus settle on 'subverting expectations' as the reason the movie sucked, despite the movie not really subverting anything (at least no more than every other Star Wars movie has, and always in service of telling a story) Why did 90% of the outrage center around Luke even though he was by far and away the only part of the movie that didn't suck, and was genuinely well-written? Why did journalists LOVE this movie so fucking much, and how did they turn it into such a partisan thing despite politics probably playing less of a role in this movie than any of the Lucas movies previously?
Honestly most of the movie's problems felt due to being sandwiched between two Abrams nostalgia-wank movies, and the setting/characters he inherited from TFA are so shitty it's borderline impossible to make them work. If Rian had the whole trilogy it might have ended up at the least watchable.
I'd rank it slightly below Return of the Jedi, because much like that movie every Luke scene is great and every other scene is skippable.
Just admit you're too stupid to understand it and move on. This is an anonymous board, no one will hold it against you.
Chase Smith
its actually kino its inherently designed to put people on the fence and instead of being compelled by the movies subjects and themes they just defaulted to rage and will continue doing so for some time. a rian XI wouldve been peak star wars
Jeremiah Richardson
I can't even tell if you're defending or attacking the movie
Isaiah Ross
TLJ subverts expectations on a scene-by-scene basis more than on any grand scale. It's like Hoth, but salt! Luke breaks the dramatic cliffhanger by tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder! It's a clothes iron! Your mama! The untrustworthy criminal does *not* have a heart of gold! It makes the film feel smug and self-satisfied. Stuff like Snoke getting snuffed didn't register as that subversive to me; it's all played pretty straight with Kylo's motivations. Likewise with Luke's resignation (they needed a reason for why Luke bailed, and Johnson gave one). It's just a sloppy, tedious mess overall. Nothing lands. A waste of great cinematography.
Joseph Young
nice job summarising that video essay which i get all my opinions from because i cant think for myself. send me a link
Ayden Evans
Not everything is about video essays, teenarino.
Sebastian Gonzalez
Every Star Wars movie subverts things though, that's a defining theme of the movies. TFA is the first one that didn't subvert anything
Parker Collins
I had a very similar experience. I found out the most popular memes were things taken out of context, e.g. taking some character's mumbled "note to self" and putting it on an infographic with bold writing as if the character said the words in an impassioned speech. The movie was too "clever" for its own good, as in, it hits certain writing gimmicks that aren't actually fun to watch or impressive, but it's real problem - which shocked me - was Daisy ridley's risible performance
Cameron Cook
It is written with the intent of tearing down the rules and morals of all the previous episodes (granted 7 had done its own damage and is just as bad as 8 if not more so). It also had the mainstream and access media call everyone nazis and white supremacists if they didn't like it. It destroyed its own characters, their motives, and reduced them to jokes within their own movie (see Finn, Luke, Poe, Snoke, Hux, Kylo, etc.). Its writing is illogical, and loses consistency from scene to scene (see the entire star ship chase). Those who created it actively hated the fanbase (they admit this in interviews), and wanted to drive them off in favor of courting the same sort of normies that constitute the Marvel audience.
And my point is that TLJ isn't much of a subversion either in terms of Star Wars in general. The tone is just flippant.
Brandon Reed
>The tone is just flippant. This was bad. This was already started in TFA though because of the "Marvelize it" mandate. So we had mr poe back-talking like tony stark in the cave, *opening* the movie. TLJ commits a more serious sin though of having the directors voice intrude with his own flippancy beyond the characters'. The clothes iron thing, as someone mentioned.
Nolan Carter
It's quite simple >Prequels didn't worship Star Wars >manbabies hated it
>Force Awakens worshipped Star Wars >manbabies loved it
>Last Jedi didn't worship Star Wars >manbabies hated it
>Rise of Skywalker worshipped Star Wars >manbabies loved it
>Mando worshipped Star Wars >manbabies loved it
>Rogue One worshipped Star Wars >manbabies loved it
Star Wars fans are more interested in the BRAND than the actual movies. Any form of subversion, deconstruction or analysis - even if its by the original creator of the movies - must be rejected, and any and all fan service must be applauded
Robert Lee
>>Prequels didn't worship Star Wars They do, though. Not to the extent TFA does, of course, but they aren't light on fanwanky self-reference at all.
Easton Cruz
>wall of text >calling Johnson "Rian" as he's your twitter friend Yeah kill yourself shill.
Jace Wood
"Worship" is such a disingenuous word that doesn't even mean anything in this context.
Alexander White
lol the prequels subverted way more than TLJ ever did the entire audience perception of what star wars actually IS was challenged which is why nerds lashed out so hard
Colton Allen
My favorite is Finn running around the casino wasting time with a smile on his face saying something like "this place is crazy" while he's supposed to be on a desperate mission to save his friends from being blown out of the sky
Anthony Cook
Lol, are we just gonna pretend didn't the Prequels didn't have weird circlejerk as well? >Anakin built C3PO >Anakin actually lived on Tatooine all along >Member Jabba the Hutt >Member jawas and sandpeople >Member Greedo >R2D2 and C3PO meet up scene >Member Yoda >Member the Clone Wars >Member Boba Fett >Member the Storm Troopers >Member Chewie >Member the Millenium Falcom >Member Darth Vader etc
Also: >Jedis all dress like Obi Wan Kenobi did in A New Hope. He wasn't just dressed that way because he was living on a desert planet. It was actually the Jedi uniform.
