My friend just told me that back in the 1990s during the transition of the USSR to the Russian Federation, the Russian government gave vouchers to every Russian citizen that made them part owners of various sectors of the Russian economy.
The idea was to have something similar to the Scandinavian social wealth funds or at the very least have some kind of investment in the people of Russia as the economy grew.
But that soon after this, all of the now Oligarchs and people like Putin basically convinced all of Russia to sell back their vouchers and in some cases threatened factory workers and such to sell them back or be fired.
And by the late 1990s the average Russian had basically lost any stake they had in the economic boom that the oligarchs experienced.
Fuck you, your criminal country and your shitty propaganda
You lost in Afghanistan, Iraq, syria and is losing in Ukraine.
Now kys
Jack Hill
Pretty much
Noah Ward
Sarmat-kun pls take your meds for once
Nicholas Barnes
But like, why? Why did they sell them back?
I’m talking about the people who were not threatened by criminals and such. I was doing some light reading about it and 98% of the population had these vouchers, and in like 2 years it went down to almost zero.
>But like, why? Why did they sell them back? because they didnt know anything about free market economy
Easton Jenkins
Economy was fucked. Instead of money, people were paid with food cards, gasoline cards, whateverthefuck company produced cards.
Connor Howard
That’s really unfortunate if that’s the case. The more I read about it the more interesting Russia in the 1990s becomes.
It’s like they could have taken so many paths and at every turn they made less than optimal decisions.
Also the more I read about the oligarchs the less I like them. Not because they are rich, but because they didn’t do anything with that wealth.
Like here in the US people like Rockefeller and such developed the infrastructure that made them some of the wealthiest people in all of history, but in Russia these oligarchs basically just took over existing ex-Soviet infrastructure and didn’t do much else but get rich from what I can tell.
Easton Rodriguez
>Why did they sell them back? They had literally no idea how to use them. Participating in a certain kind of society requires a basis of common knowledge; it's like telling the average American to suddenly start writing in Hanzi and expecting them to instantly be fluent. Also, with massive inflation going on, and thus the complete obliteration of their ruble-denominated savings, a lot of people needed immediate payouts, and so were convinced to sell by speculators. Additionally, the value of companies and assets was assessed at substantially below market values, so even if you held on, there was no real timeline for when 'proper' values would reassert themselves and you would gain a decent return. A lot of the choicest assets were auctioned off between a select, politically-connected few, decreasing the attractiveness of the field as a whole.
Kayden Smith
it was optimal, not for peasants though.
Jaxon Clark
Everything is true except this part:
>But that soon after this, all of the now Oligarchs and people like Putin basically convinced all of Russia to sell back their vouchers and in some cases threatened factory workers and such to sell them back or be fired.
It wasn't Putin or the oligarchs, it was actually American economists and government advisors.
Jack Russell
What do expect from people who were living in a cave (aka totalitarian country with a planned economy)? It's just economic illiteracy and incompetency.
Ryder Cruz
This, it's actually physically impossible for a Russian to act without the action being prompted by either the US in general or the CIA specifically.
Jonathan Nguyen
Imagine you hold vouchers for Apple in 80'. And you can be billionare in future but right now you are literally starving and you needs meds for your child. So you can sell the voucher for money or some gangsters will break your knees. And you are also an alcoholic or a drug addict. This is situation in 90' in ex-soviet block. I hyperbolize, but only a little. I hate Zoomers and Millennials who say the 90s were wonderful because they watch Friends. It was a nightmare in the Eastern Bloc
Jack Williams
What's more interesting that ppl in the former Eastern Bloc got the opportunity to privatise their commieblock flats. Except for East Germany, where the state handed it to real estate companies from the West.
The more West you go, the less bad it was. It was especially shit in Russia, less shit in the Baltics and Poland, and I guess that in Slovenia they didn't see that much economic turmoil at all.
Ian Richardson
>people like Rockefeller and such developed the infrastructure that made them some of the wealthiest people in all of history, but in Russia these oligarchs basically just took over existing ex-Soviet infrastructure and didn’t do much else but get rich from what I can tell True. The Russian oligarchs even invoked the robber barons as a precedent/"no u" defense, despite extracting rather than creating value.
It is a shame. Russia had a decent engineering/scientific base that could've been developed into something special, which would've massively benefitted Russia's economy and standards of living. Or at least, done what the US does and use loads of domestic natural resources as cheap fuel for high levels of domestic consumption.
Samuel Myers
Yes. Putin was a low-ranked secret service agent, some unknown nobody who was elevated to the highest state power as a Western puppet to facilitate the destruction of the Soviet Union and its economy.
Jace Roberts
>Like here in the US people like Rockefeller and such developed the infrastructure that made them some of the wealthiest people in all of history
After he was cucked by FDR, had his empire broken up by anti-trust and then his ass taxed to shit you mean.
>It is a shame. Russia had a decent engineering/scientific base that could've been developed into something special, which would've massively benefitted Russia's economy and standards of living. Or at least, done what the US does and use loads of domestic natural resources as cheap fuel for high levels of domestic consumption.
Something the US would have never tolerated. Reforms that would have actually modernized and updated the Soviet economy had to be prevented by all means, see China.
we had all the opportunities in the world to become a developed nation and we blew it
it's over
Tyler Hill
Putin is actually George HW Bush's reclusive 3rd son who was installed into a Russian family by the CIA.
Colton Hughes
The CIA stuff is true. Putin is the Russian Saddam, the Russian Pinochet.
Carter Allen
You're nuts dude. The US bent over backwards to modernize China with the hope of them accepting our political norms. It wasn't until Trump in 2016 that anyone in leadership seriously questioned the results and whether the project should be continued.
Ayden Nelson
If the coup didn't fail and the SU adopted some tenants of Dengism then the US would have lost the cold war.
Camden Bell
>Something the US would have never tolerated The US had little control over what happened in Russia, especially given that it was mostly the same sort of people running things after 1991. The 1990s was peak neoliberalism, when all the government was supposed to do was make war. >see China China was an economic minnow at the time. Nobody was really thinking about them as an economic competitor. And even within China , the parts of it whose economic and social structures are closest to what the USSR had (like Heilongjiang) are the parts that are the worst off. A 'good' outcome was really unlikely, even without the Soviet apparatchiki being treacherous snakes.
>You're nuts dude. The US bent over backwards to modernize China
Lmao, you quite literally have no idea what you are talking about. China never adopted neoliberal-style economic or trade policies. There were plans to do so at several points in history but instead China stayed true to state-directed economical policies. That's why it didn't turn into a complete failure like LatAm and post-Soviet Russia.
Zachary Butler
And even now he's destroying both the Russian and European economy and driving all of Europe into US dependency..... Old world sisters... they can't keep getting away with it... americhads just keep winning....
To be fair, soviet elites let this happen. Soviet Union and Eastern Block was in terrible condition since 80'
Poland was poorer than Ukrainian SSR in 80' and 90'. Most of the western SSRs was richer, I think
Anthony Ramirez
>The US had little control over what happened in Russia,
US government advisors quite literally dictated Russian domestic economic policies, lmao. What are you talking about.
>China was an economic minnow at the time. Nobody was really thinking about them as an economic competitor
Exactly and that's why they didn't end up like Russia.
Ayden Torres
familiar with the doubleswitch of "Poland/Baltics are only better off than Russia due to eurogibs" and "Poland/Baltics are Germ colonies"
Tyler Long
Partly. Retards exchanged their shares for pennies and new owners kicked out because it was inefficient to have so many workers there.
Jackson Barnes
More or less, but it wasn't "oligarchs" back then. It was either people from former power structures or basically gangsters. Same thing happened here. My uncle was a lawyer back then and worked with some of those people. He lives in US now because people who he worked for tried to kill him.
Nathaniel Torres
Again, Putin is a Western creation. He's the Russian Saddam whose currently engaged in his second gulf War.
Elijah Sanders
>it wasn't "oligarchs" back then. It was either people from former power structures or basically gangsters also this
John Sanchez
> China never adopted neoliberal-style economic or trade policies. The Special Economic Zones effectively did that, with the model then being rolled out nation-wide. Chinese provinces and cities competed to create favorable operating environments to bring in domestic and foreign businesses. The state's most direct contribution was a high level of state capacity to provide political stability, good infrastructure, a decent education system, and a disciplined workforce. The entire point of Xi's 'Common Prosperity' and 'Dual Circulation' is that the prior growth model produced inequalities and outcomes that the CPC didn't like. >like LatAm Where import-substitution industrialization driven by the state was the most popular economic idea throughout the 20th century. It even continues today - look at Brazilian tariffs. >post-Soviet Russia Where the state (and parasites within it) was and are is only relevant actor?
Also the so called "Red CEOs", basically those who were CEOs during the Soviet era and managed to "inherit" their companies.
Logan Reed
>quite literally dictated Russian domestic economic policies Ah yes, it was all-powerful US advisors that forced company auctions to discriminate against foreign companies, and forced organizations like Tarpishchev's National Sports Foundation to get rich by arbitraging prices of traded goods, and forced insider-trading within companies. The US also encouraged gangsters to kill businessmen, journalists, and politicians, the best way to make a country attractive for FDI. idfi.ge/en/russian_sport_and_politics
