Redpill me on their ountry

They are confusing as fuck. On one hand they seem to be Islamists who hate the West and want to build a Ottoman Empire 2.0 and on the other hand they are in NATO and are doing the biddings of the Westoids...

Attached: Flag-map_of_Turkey.svg.png (1870x801, 96.8K)

Most opinion pieces on Turkey are propaganda. Most foreigners take their knowledge from news and articles with a heavy agenda, be it pro nato pro russian pro west pro china. So their perspective is half assed and they are lazy enough to not do proper research to understand the complex dynamics and history behind the nation.

So... Can u explain it then?

All I know about them is from Kraut's vids . Its weird finding out they started out as a secular nation.

I think moving the Capital to Ankara was a mistake. Too many inbred low iq Muslims in Anatolia

I think West is as confused as you are. in 2000 Turkey was seen as a project of rapid islamization that was supposed to be also pro western friendly. Given the secular establishment often prone to leaning left and cause nationalist stirs. An islamic western puppet would have been seen as a good model for rest of the muslim world who were starting to stir up trouble after cold war (not even going to how they were supported to counter soviets). 2000s was a reshaping of turkey with destroying the old establishment. But while doing that they also allowed islamism to be more entrenched I think this is because they wanted an islamic not a democratic nation. However I think this project is failed especially in 2010s with Syrian War debacle. And western point of view changed.

Did you know for example Erdogan met with Bush before he was elected? Or Soros. Or compare Economist writings about him in 2006 and 2007 vs 2013-2014. Erdogan was corrupt and jailing people in 2000s too but only in 2010 suddenly west seem to care about that.
Or when he was congratulated by EU and USA when he took control of the judiciary?

I think this is because their project of mild islamist pro western turkey has failed. They still don't want a non islamist government here but Erdogan really made a good cult of personality so they cannot find an alternative etiher.

If you are curious I will name two individuals whose writings you should read.
Graham Fuller "retired" CIA agent
Daniel Rodrick a Harvard Economist with ties to Turkish Military through marriage

Turkey is still secular.
By population it is more secular today than 20 years ago. All lifestyle surveys suggest this. More turks are atheist less of them pray less of them go to mosque et cetera. The only difference is an increase of hijab against the full covered black burqa so even islamists are "secularizing" to an extend. Check out Konda Turkey lifestyle surveys which can be found english
Islamism is popular in the +40-45 crowd.

So Erdogan is another "CIA puppet gone rogue" story?
fucking mutts

Here is him protected by FBI agents when he was banned from practicing politics.

Attached: E64sh2qXEAE-5S6.jpg (480x360, 34.78K)

Do Islamists focus more of an "Islamic Ummah" identity regardless of ethnicity like Arabs, Kurd, etc? Or are they like a ethnic Turkish nationalism mixed with Islamic imperialism?

And here is him with Soros.
He is not the first guy who decided to act on his own when he realized west was done with him. Read about Adnan Menderes.
Mind you nothing would make him happier than west accepting him back. He is more than willing so he has not gone rogue.
West abandoned him so he is trying to cling to power nomatter the cost.

Attached: soros-erdogan.jpg (1024x611, 146.45K)

Turkey is in NATO because traditionally Russia has been obsessed with the Dardanelles and Bosphorous, and after WWII they wanted to change the 1936 Montreux agreements (which have become relevant again during this crisis). This idea that NATO is a collection of American vassal states who exist to do the bidding of the United States is dumb, we are in it for our own good reasons.

I think it is more of the latter. History of Turkish conservativism and Islam is quite interesting and complex. As most of the "conservatives" tried to survive in a very hostile enviroment.
Even today Erdogan puts them on a tight leash. One islamic sect was granted a lot of government positions contracts and jobs but because they go against erdogan and tried to coup him in 2016, all of their privledges were all taken away from them and their followers were put into jail or fled abroad. They were also notoriously nepotistic and brutal towards anyone who was not in their cult so they were not loved much either. But they were also very pro USA. Their leader is still based on America.

So complex.
I thought most turks were kind of moderate Sufi Islam. Are there any Salafist or Wahhabists?

Tikko tokko poster is from that country so it can't be that bad
KARA BOĞA

Again you are things more complex for yourself. But I don't buy into Sufism being moderate. Erdogan comes from Nakshibendi sect which is sufi, would you call him mild? Or the other sect that I told you Gulenist who were involved in destroying secular establishment and then trying to take power from erdogan, they are also a sufi sect.
Salafism and Wahabism however is on the rise especially within refugee population. I think after Erdogans eventual downfall many of the conservatives will start to blame him for not being hardliner enough and will turn into salafism instead. Days of conservative-muslim-nationalist amalgamation will be over with people being more on atheist or on salafist camps.

I think Erdogan's party played up the soft-islamist, muh ummah thing a lot in their "pro-west, liberal" phase but the coup in Egypt overthrowing the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood government really fucked with them. That would have been a huge ally. There was bad domestic shit too but I think Morsi's fall lined up with AKP just becoming a boring dictatorship party.

Looking for allies at home, the kurdish left was politically toxic and the only choice to link up with was caveman-tier ethnic turkish nationalists

Look at the shit that happened in America in 2020, if Trump thought the liberals were seriously going to put him and his kids in prison if he lost power, he wouldn't have been so lazy and halfass about the January 6th thing.

>However I think this project is failed especially in 2010s with Syrian War debacle. And western point of view changed.
Tell me more about this, did the war in Syria and rise of ISIS damage Islamism in Turkey?

How do you think the next few years will play out regarding Turkey's society and geopolitical position?

erdoğan damaged the islamism in turkey

How so?
Do you think he'll be reelected in 2023?

I think more or less. There are two factors. First is the failure of Turkish Islamist within, second is west stop backing them or rather starting to back them reluctantly. Syria, refugees and economy really ruined Islamists reputation.
I think there will be a false golden age post erdogan with flow of investments coming in and you will see news articles about how once lost turkey is coming back to its senses again.
Nationalism will be the next big issue. It will be pumped up by west to goad Turkey against Iran and China. But it will also have self destructive effects within. With growing Kurdish and Refugee population I think there will be a lot of ethnic tensions post 2030s.
But before that I think after Erdogan we will have a boom and good economy for few years. But that too shall pass just like the crisis we are in right now.

But I might be totally wrong. One problem with Turkey is it is quite unpredictable. People who are in power today can be in jail tomorrow. In 1995 I could've confidently state that a president of usa in 2020 would be from either republican or democratic party. I cannot say that to Turkey.
He will lose elections but whether or not he will go to elections is a different matter. I think West can still support him after all the sour grapes because of refugees. Erdogan is the most pro refugee turkish politician ever. EU especially might support the devil they know over politicans who argue to kick them out (and they will flee towards europe).

Turkey seems like a country with a lot of history. How much do Turks study and identify with their historical/mythological past?