What are your thoughts on villain redemption...

What are your thoughts on villain redemption? I think it can be done extremely well or extremely bad depending on the execution. Zuko is probably one of the best example of villain redemption done well to be quite honest.

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Zuko was never redeemed because he never did anything wrong

Zuko's redemption took over the span of 3 seasons which is why it is so well executed. It also felt pretty organic and not forced.

I'd say he did wrong after was exiled, but something I like about Zuko's arc is him realizing he did nothing wrong in calling out the old general in the war meeting, and not fighting his father in the Agni Kai.

It never was his fault. The generals were throwing the nation's youth as cannon fodder, and Ozai chose to be an abusive, sadistic, and cruel pos about that whole thing and cutting him off for good was the right thing all-along.

Most modern writers should stop trying to write vilain redemptions cos they're shit at it. (OP's pic related)

He was groomed by his uncle to take the throne from the ozai's hands.

Catra had a decent villian arc but kinda wish she wasn't redeemed. It felt a little forced, It would've been better if she died as a villian.

Catra being redeemed was really more of a formality to get to the part that really mattered: making Catadora canon

The problem is writers have a character do absolutely heinous shit and try to have them fully redeemed and forgiven in a contrived way.

It's okay to end a story with hints or just the start of a redemption arc. A villain under arrest were they get to reflect on what they did, or in an institution were they will get the help they've long needed, or swearing to work hard and undo the damage they've done without necessarily being forgiven by those they hurt.

I hate how formulatic "redemption" is nowdays
A character is almoust forced into a certain arc, often rushed, and what's often worse
By the end of it they become a completely different person, and the world just fucking forgets almoust instantly how they all were terrorized and killed by a said villain
Speaking of catra again, it was so bizzare how absurdly cheerful and friendly glimmer was with a person who was the main sourse of suffering for her and her people and a murderer of her fucking mother on top of that.
Would have been better if fat girl never forgave her and just merely tolerated a cat

The worst "villain redemptions" are the ones where the villains just become comic relief characters or are suddenly not as powerful with no explanation given

90% of times the redemption arc suffers from the some combination of the following:
>rushed change of heart
>villain not facing enough consequences of their actions
>the redemption being show as mostly the issue of the interpersonal relationship with the protagonist
>villain crimes being far to vile o accept them just shifting sides
>every other character being forced by the author and his plot to accept the reformed villain without any real proof of the long term change of heart
>trying to justify crimes committed with the villains full agency and knowledge to soften the backlash caused by the previous points
Zuko's arc had none of these elements making it the example of the good storytelling craft.

He would still be accused of treason. Because that's what he did, betrayed the fire nation and took the kingdom for himself.

it's not treason of your coup works dummy

if*

If anything Ozai was the one grooming Zuko into becoming like him and Iroh was trying to "de-groom" him, just as he was once groomed by Azulon (who was likely groomed by Sozin) to be a warmonger when he was young.

But people wouldn't accept him because he defeated ozai. He would still have to convince everyone else first so he could take the title of firelord. Iroh didn't think it through before doing this

I mean, for the treason argument there are three arguments against it:
1. He beat the previous Firelord in the legitimate fight. Sure, it wasn't a standard Agni Kai, but he actually won.
2. He's the last person from the royal bloodline fit to take the throne. I'm pretty sure that many political factions within the Fire Nation would support him just for that.
3. His coup not only won, but was linked to his nation loosing the major war. This alone leaves most of the opposition without any major cards to play against him.

That would be assuming the Fire Nation's people didn't want to continue being under mad Phoenix King Ozai. Or heck, Fire Lord Azula, who would probably be even worse even without her deteriorating mental state. Zuko taking over the throne with the Avatar's aid must have been seen as a blessing.

Zuko's arc is also a "return of the king" story when you think about it.

Ozai knew that Zuko was more talented than Azula, but Iroh had already convinced Zuko that his father and the Fire Nation had problems.

They supported Ozai's every plan, there were only a few people from the Fire Nation who were against him and Ozai still managed to control Ba Sing Se. They respected him. Avatar didn't know how to deal with politics in depth

If you plan on redeeming a villain you can't have them commit unforgivable things, it's as simple as that
Nobody is ever going to be sympathetic to a repentent kid killer or rapist, there's some lines the character just can't cross or you get steven universe

i kinda doubt ozai and azula were popular

plus, it's really none of the common folk's business who's in charge, it's not modern world after all.