This is worse than One More Day, but not as bad as Sin's Past or Identity Crisis

This is worse than One More Day, but not as bad as Sin's Past or Identity Crisis.

Attached: file.png (600x911, 879.57K)

There is no possible way you think Sins Past is more egregiously bad than One More Day.

Whose that? Wally? Can't be. Wally's black.

I think OP is some aging boomer from 2000s Any Forums complaining again

I still wish we could see the original plans for this, I remember that at some point, the solicits said something about the AI going rogue or something along those lines.

>This is worse than One More Day
It really isn't.

>The reason that Green Goblin killed Gwen was because he was fucking her endlessly, she had kids and tried to restrict access to him. She tried to turn Peter into a cuck, but failed, by dying prematurely.
vs.
>uhhh relationship has gone back a decade or so, but they're still together, really

Evidently the retards working in Marvel editorial genuinely believe that, maybe OP is one of them.

How is this bad?

Only haters are Wally fans. And only 5 people like Wally

A common criticism of OMD is that it represents the antithesis of Spider-Man's core message, and that he was doing everything possible to avoid responsibility for his actions. This doesn't hold up to scrutiny unless you have a pretty warped sense of responsibility. Being responsible doesn't just mean accepting when someone gets hurt by your actions, directly or indirectly, and moving on with your life. It means working to try to fix it and prevent that from happening again. Peter would have been betraying everything he stands for by NOT doing everything in his power to save Aunt May, even if the deal being offered wasn't an absolute steal.

Mephisto literally just wants their marriage, and a life is saved. Mary Jane wasn't going to die, wasn't going to disappear off the face of the earth, and they wouldn't even remember having ever been married. And in exchange, Peter's mother figure gets to continue living? No brainer, as far as I'm concerned. Everybody lives if Peter takes the deal, someone dies if he does not.

I think what everybody really hates so much about OMD is not the story itself, bad as it is. Spidey has had much worse over the years. No, people hate OMD because it's a stark reminder that corporate comics are just that: corporate. Those at Marvel and DC have no obligation to do that which the fans want or expect, and if someone high on the food chain thinks it would be more profitable to change something, they will make that change. Brands are not your friends and no matter how much individual people at the company care about the character, the priority will always be on the value they can extract from it.

>based Green Goblin story
vs
>editorially mandated anti-marriage deal with the devil Spider-Man story

Attached: 1657309329949.png (519x650, 376.76K)

I know saying that is going to open the fires of hell upon me, but I really don't care. I've been saying this online to some extent since shortly after the event in question ended, much to the horror/anger of "true" fans of the Spider-Man. Be it in anonymous IRC chats or old, long dead and buried forums, I've held this position through them all. I've argued with people for nearly half of my life over this (I'm 26, so literally half of my life has passed since the conclusion of OMD), and frankly, it made me hate Spider-Man fans. My contempt for the fans that act like me not liking Mary Jane can be "debunked" or whatever is palpable. I'm not saying this to gain sympathy, or even to start shit; I'm saying this so you understand that I know this position is not popular, and that I frankly don't care.

I'm not delusional, nor do I think One More Day is good or whatever; I hate the story just as much as a good portion of the fanbase tends to. It's a poorly plotted idea that flies in the face of Spider-Man's characterization to tell an angsty devil magic divorce because Marvel refuses to let Peter "grow up." I don't care for it, and while I don't think it's the worst Spider-Man story (I think Sins Past is way worse), it's by no means good. I could probably rant about what doesn't work about the story for hours, much like many of you can. But I'm also not taken in by this rose-tinted image of what Peter's life "could have been" if he stayed married to MJ. I've accepted the outcome, I've moved on, and frankly, I think a lot more of you need to move past it.

Heroes in Crisis is notable for being instantly undone. My boy Wally is too strong

Attached: wally rescue.jpg (600x518, 71.3K)

It is a statistical fact that around 40-50% of marriages end in divorce in the US. Even if I took my country's divorce rate (in Canada, it's about 38%) into account, I know it's something that just happens. Hell, I think it's perfectly acceptable for Peter to end up getting divorced, because it is the kind of human drama that can be the result of his double life biting him in the ass that the series is built around. I think a divorce story could work, which is why I am not desperate to "fix" the outcome of One More Day; Spider-Man getting a divorce isn't really that out there an idea.

The problem with One More Day isn't really the outcome; it's the way it was told. The fact of the matter is the only reason they even had Mephisto be involved at all is because Joe Quesada, in his infinite wisdom thought that divorce would "age" the character, and they didn't want to let that happen (and arguably, still don't). Peter and MJ's marriage ending in divorce (or even some more dramatic tragedy) is something that fits the lore in my opinion. We've seen other marriages in Marvel have messy moments, and we know that the Parkers were no exception. Hell, the current Madame Web is a divorcee, so we know that divorces can happen with superheroes/superhero-adjacent characters. MJ eventually hitting a metaphorical breaking point isn't that out there an idea, even if you could point to a million points in the comics where she "could have walked away but didn't." Human beings aren't invincible, and we all have a breaking point of what we are willing to take. It's not a sign of weakness, it's proof that you're human.

i.e. JMS Is to blame.

No, it's the antithesis of Spider-Man because Peter was told by Capital G God himself that he needs to let her go and move on with his life. There is not a fucking argument on this planet that you can give to convince me that giving an octegenarian about 10-15 years more life at best is worth completely erasing Peter's only real chance at a happy life, which is exactly what May would have wanted for him. And he fucking does it anyway, erasing his future child with MJ from the fabric of reality.

A lot of the people who want to "undo OMD" also fail to really grasp the concept that making Spider-Man a married man again, and potentially giving him a kid, isn't magically going to make the comics "better." If you think that it will, good for you, but that seems very shallow to me. I'm not opposed to the idea of Spider-Man being married, or even him having children, because we have a "new" teenage Spider-Man in the comics, and it's not Peter Parker. Hell, we have multiple teenagers as Spider-Men and Women, through characters like Miles, Spider-Gwen, and Ayna. While I think some of those characters (mostly Miles) need more time to grow (and in the case of Miles, writers that can give him a more concrete sense of individuality that doesn't live in the shadow of Peter), it's never been easier to make Peter "the grown up Spider-Man." ItSV is proof that Peter can be an adult (even if that movie makes him a sort of dysfunctional mess of one), so again, I'm not against Peter having a wife and kids.

I firmly believe that undoing OMD wouldn't fix what it did. Peter being married to MJ won't suddenly make the past and future of Spider-Man better. I think it'd be more interesting to have Spider-Man go in a different direction. Like, personally, I'd love to see him start dating a single mother, and making an effort to be there for her kid, because it would skip the pregnancy crap (let's be real, writers are really bad at making preganancy stories not cringy, especially in superhero stories), and it would allow Peter to become a father in a way that allows writers/editorial to test the waters for "mainstream Spider-Dad" without having to deal with the whole "pregnancy panic" for a while. It would be a new, interesting direction for a Spider-Man story, and it would satisfy the whole "let Spider-Man grow up and have a family" thing without having to retread old ground, and it would have a built in out if it didn't work out. MJ fans lose hard as always.

Well, as per my usual Any Forums posting nonsense, this is sort of all over the place, but in short: I want Spider-Man to move beyond OMD, not try to undo it. I don't think it's healthy for the story, characters, or even the fanbase to be hung up on something that happened 13 years ago. I know that people won't move on, and that I won't change minds, but really, I think we'd all be better off if we did. If I'm being honest with myself though, I know I'm probably going to get more comments condemning my postion again than actually trying to understand it. Experience with the subject has made me too jaded to not consider it. Still, if you want to discuss what I said above, I'm all ears, even if I disagree with what you have to say.

We all need to learn to accept the sins of the past, and move into tomorrow with the knowledge we gained from them. Spider-Man, the character, took the OMD deal because he wasn't able to accept the consequences of his actions. The fans refuse to accept the mistakes of Spider-Man's past for what they are, and trust the corporate devil to fix them by wiping it from existence. It's funny how life parallels art.

Goblin won, and he did it with his cum inside Gwen. I can't wait for him to win in Spider-Gwen too.

Attached: 1659804776750150.png (280x280, 98.25K)

>I firmly believe that undoing OMD wouldn't fix what it did. Peter being married to MJ won't suddenly make the past and future of Spider-Man better.
It does, because it allows Peter to actually grow up and take responsibility in a way that the character hasn't really reckoned with except in one-off stories. Spider-Man, after all, isn't a story about being young, it's about growing up, and though they have similar aspects, they also differ in key areas. What you're arguing is more that they should give up on the character of MJ because, what, marriages end up in divorce a lot? I'm not sure you really get this, but the Peter/MJ relationship is the only one in Marvel that holds the same significance that Lois and Clark does over at DC. And by that, I mean the fact that you can turn the wedding for those characters into a public event that people give a shit about. Stan Lee knew this, it's why you can find pictures of him posing with actors for Peter and MJ in newspapers.


You do hit on the real problem here, in that OMD is a stark reminder of the corporate nature of comics. They will never let Peter grow because it ages the character, in the same way that him dating a single mother doesn't avoid the pitfalls you think it does. Which is why I've always advocated for rebooting the whole fucking thing every 15-20 years.

I appreciate that you're respectful user, but i dont see any way in hell that Sins Past
>a story that heavily retcons one of the most popular stories for the character, but really only affects one character who's most defining aspect is being dead
is worse than OMD
>a story that fundamentally broke the main character of said series as well as erased at that point 21 years of stories as well as character assasinated the two leads beyond compare
There's a reason why OMD has been an absolute black mark on the spider-man brand, because it shows a deep rooted inability to let the character grow, despite that being something he had done since his inception. For fuck's sake, OMD still stands but DC already has undone every single trace of the new 52, and even shit like heroes in crisis has been totally undone.

Also you are talking about the DC event right? Because the spidey story was just dumb fun.
I dont agree with the reboot thing, because it'd lead to marvel just making spider-man a perpetual teenager like they want, but i do agree with the first half.

Attached: 4-scaled.jpg (1024x762, 229.96K)

>Also you are talking about the DC event right? Because the spidey story was just dumb fun.
Yeah, rape event.

>Hell, the current Madame Web is a divorcee, so we know that divorces can happen with superheroes/superhero-adjacent characters.
That's not really a good example, she was divorced before she got powers, and her ex has been dead since the early 90s.

I mean, that one is certainly bad. But also had far less characters affected negativley than even Civil War did.

IC is still not good mind you.

>making spider-man a perpetual teenager like they want
Well no, I'm saying that if you reboot every 15-20 years you can have Peter grow up in real time with the rest of the MU. It also solves several other issues like the existence of Franklin and Valeria Richards, Daredevil's life being a revolving trainwreck without real direction, mutants being perennial punching bags, etc.
You don't necessarily have to stop publishing stories in those universes either, MC2 was a great idea that they should have kept at.

Did they revive the guys who died? I know they redeemed Wally like right away but idk if the random one off C listers came back

I think for me what they should do is let 616 grow and evolve but also have a contained continuity that does what you say. I do think some of marvel's appeal lies in it continuining form the 60s and all.

Just roy, since he's the biggest one.

lol