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Iron Fist and DD's second season. The pacing issues only got worse and doing kung fu magic with neither the writing talent or the budget to pull it off was fucking stupid.

Only Daredevil was decent

Nothing. Disney ruined everything like they always do. And Netflix canceled everything out of spite.

Every series that wasn't Daredevil was showrun by idiots. I liked Jessica Jones too at first but holy shit it went to hell fast.

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this and this although I'd argue that the first half of S1 of Luke Cage was fine

>Didn't feel like there was really a plan.
>The shows were inconsistent in quality. We got highs like DD s3 and lows like ALL of Iron Fist. Other shows like Luke Cage and JJ struggled to find their footing. LC s2 was fantastic, but by then people had already checked out because of the second half of s1 and Defenders.
>Defenders was fucked from conception because the Hand is a faceless organization that works *for* the big bad guy. They shouldn't occupy the main role.
>All that talk about Elektra being the dark moon and the end of the city, but all she did was become a super-strong ninja.
>DD felt like the main character of Defenders when it should have been a team show. Meanwhile, Danny was a joke. Also, the whole vibe of the show did not match the seriousness of the individual shows

It had two good seasons, Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones S1, and then proceeded to shit the bed by dropping its mature themes in favor of more punchies.

13? episodes
too manyH

The first season of Iron Fist was a stinker. And the Defenders should have focused on something besides yet even more Hand stories. Besides that I loved it and wouldn't call it 'ruined'.

Nah DD season three was great

They got into this weird trend of the good villain being dealt with halfway through to be replaced by a worst villain. Weak second halfs of seasons that showed there were too many episodes.

get woke, go broke

They definitely tried to Avengers up the Defenders with the quipping and the "can they get along!?" part.

They had a netflix universe?

>S tier - DD Season 1, DD Season 3
>A tier - DD Season 2, Punisher Season 1, Punisher Season 2
>B tier - Jessica Jones Season 1
>C tier - Jessica Jones Season 2, Jessica Jones Season 3, Defenders, Luke Cage Season 2
>D tier - Iron Fist Season 2, Luke Cage Season 1
>F tier Iron Fist Season 1

What's with all the love for Luke Cage S2? I thought the first season was great and the second one sucked.

90% it was Bushmaster and that Iron Fist Heroes for Hire backdoor pilot episode.

Luke Cage season 1 was pretty good until Diamondback came along to run the show and it became an overdramatic family crisis with some cringey lines and some stupid acting by Diamondback's actor, not like he had much to work with other than guy who randomly shoots people and yells "Carl!" may as well be Rick Grimes.

Defenders failed to deliver.

S-Tier: Same
A-Tier: Luke Cage season 2
B-Tier: Same except DD s2 goes here
C-Tier: JJ s2 and 3, Luke Cage season 1
D-Tier: Defenders
F-Tier: Iron Fist 1 and 2
Never watched the Punisher

>DD
The Daredevil moments were great. The moments with him and his friends were not. Foggy came across as whiny as Amber in Amazon's Invincible. Mat didn't really seem committed to his law practice and that lack of tension just left me wondering why he didn't say fuck it, go full recluse, and DD full time earlier on.

>Iron Fist
lol. shitshow.

>Luke Cage
Lots of pros and cons here. Great enemy for the first half to 2/3s of the show. The final villain was terrible and kind of spoiled the season. Tried too hard to be Socially Conscious and Aware, but wasn't as grating as some other shows in that regard and the storytelling was good aside from those moments.

>JJ
Biggest disappointment of the lot. I had to watch that 3 times to figure out why I didn't like it. I love noir. I like street level heroes. I should have loved this show but I just didn't, so I kept watching it until I could articulate why: it shows the villain too early and that kills the whole mood of the series. They should have leaned into the noir and hardboiled elements of the show and had it be about independent cases she was solving. Don't connect them at all. Then in the last episode or the one prior, show Killgrave and make him more menacing. By showing him early and playing up their relationship it gave the whole show a Lifetime feel: Super Girl has Super Ex that is Super Icky.

>Punisher
Frank should have stayed a reoccurring character throughout the universe and shouldn't have been given a show. When he had his own show the writers demonstrated they didn't know what to do with him and it killed his characterization.

Too many episodes. Every show starts to get boring around episode 9 to 12 as they've run out of plot before the finale. Should have been 8 episode seasons tops.

There was a clear lack of communication between showrunners/directors. There was no focus, no plan, just winging it as they went. Plus the guy who made Iron Fist was more interested in corporate dramas than the actual material he was given

And yeah I'll fucking say it, Daredevil wasn't that great

Killing Cottonmouth was definitely a huge mistake and Diamondback was a low point, so I guess I get that. But I didn't really connect with season 2 at all, Bushmaster was meh and I fucking hate every second that Mariah is on-screen, so to me the second season was just bad. LC S1 up to Cottonmouth's death was the best that show had to offer and it only got worse from there at every turn.

LC s2 did a lot to flesh out Luke's character beyond preachy black history man who sits on his ass until shit goes wrong. The plot was a lot better, the villains were better, the writing was consistent, and the setting felt a lot less constrained imo. The three-way beef between Bushmaster, Luke, and Black Maria was really fun to watch

>>Didn't feel like there was really a plan.
No shit. Just look at how Madame Gao suddenly became a member of The Hand. Not a hope in hell that was what she was meant to be in Daredecil S1

Actually in hindsight, I think DD s3 is better than DD s1, so DDs1 is A+ tier

That's another thing that was killing these shows, the pacing. Even Disney+ programs knew this with WandaVision and F&WS. With each episode an hour long, writers didn't really have enough to fill the time given

I can't in good consciousness call DD good when there was a clear embarrassment of the red suit after 3 seasons. Plus they fumbled the ball with the courtroom scenes

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Yeah she went from running sweat shops to being telekenetic. Though they were sort of on the right track with only her in terms of having the fingers of the hand be prior villains shown in other shows. The other fingers were extremely weak, especially that random as fuck Japanese dude who just shows up halfway through the season. Alexandra was also a massive waste of Sigourney Weaver.

They did a whole season of the boring punisher stuff and didn’t start getting into the cool shit until over halfway in the show

Fuck Alex these horns are misaligned

There was an outright contempt for the source material from day one.

>The Devil of Hell's Kitchen
They may as well have just called him 'The Hood'.

I think what you would have liked is if they turned the shows into a kind of "monster of the week" show with a long running arc, rather than just the entire series focus on one villain. That way they could have done more Matt law practice much as he takes law cases each episode, and your Jessica Jones case episode idea would then work too. I think that idea would help with the two big issues with the Defenders universe: The weaker second half of the season (usually because they've ran out of story to tell so they shove in a last minute villain), and also the shows being too long with 13 episodes. Usually people are more forgiving of that if its monster of the week style episodes rather than just one long arc. An arc with one villain can't last 13 episodes.

If the first half of each season was just a random villain each week (or case for Jessica) then that gets rid of the weaker second half and last minute villain issue as then the second half of the season can be the actual main arc with the main villain who comes along episode 6 or 7, and we spend the first 5 or 6 episodes getting to know the characters in just the more individual, one time villain episodes. That way they don't have to kill the villain by episode 8 or 9 and then deal with a last minute villain like in Luke Cage and shit.

Yeah the only plan was "Defenders someday would be cool" then they got Defenders and they couldn't do much so it wouldn't interfere with the other seasons of shows, and so they get to Defenders, its a completely different guy directing (there should have been a Feige like figure overseeing all shows IMO) and they're like "Fuck it, we've had The Hand show up a bunch of times and be mysterious in various shows, we'll have them be the villain culimination"
"But there's no real figure head for the hand."
"Ehhh we'll make one up, we'll just hire Sigourney Weaver or something. Throw in Madame Gao too."
"Okay, so first things first, where was this Elektra thing leading to? We've fed a lot of prophecy stuff in there"
"I dunno, she's like a zombie ninja I guess."

They had an old lady kill Cottonmouth and I stopped caring about the whole thing.