ITT: Characters saved from obscurity by one good story

Really?

I think it's safe to say if Gillen didn't bring her back for Young Avengers America would be gone like every other character in Vengeance

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I'm surprised they haven't brought Bloodwynd back ala Xorn\Magneto. His costumes pretty cool and DC can always use more Black representation.

Though, I think this run is what made Martian Manhunter "Black" as MM is always portrayed Blackish (Black voice actors, Black person playing him, etc) when in the comics before this he was a pretty bog-standard white dude.

>TFW shes going to be in the MCU this year

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Superman Annual #11 from 1985.

I don't read much cape stuff but every once in a while someone will post something that looks kind of cool.
Thanks

Most of the cast prior to Annihilation

And the only reason Gillen even brought in America Chavez is because for reasons Marvel has never publicly disclosed, he wasn't allowed to use Patriot.

Monica might have been ok, maybe even machine man. But the rest were saved.

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For sure, same applies to Groot and Rocket with Annihilation: Conquest.

Starlin’s DC comics presents mogul stories rape the shit out of Moore’s soulless retread of Seigel’s vastly superior “Superman’s return to krypton” only the stupid mind control flower bit is interesting
Moore isn’t even a bad writer but this was basically a jobber story that gets hyped go because LE ALAN MOORE

I always thought it was the weakest superman story Moore has ever written.

No The Killing Joke for Barbra Gordon.

Boom Boom was a founding member of X-Force, so she still would have been OK, but yeah Elsa would be a literally who.

If Aquaman hadn't been a founding member of the Justice League, he'd just be a forgotten Golden Age Namor rip-off who occasionally shows up in JSA stories.

But the story appears to have been made with this purpose

Hmmmmmm

No, The Joker's Five Way Revenge

No, he's right, Aquaman is just a less-interesting Namor.

For the Man Who Has Everything is far, far better than Return to Krypton, which it builds upon. It's soulful as fuck, too. I don't know why you keep posting this bullshit.
Starlin sucks cocks.

Mongul was good in the JLU cartoon too.

Monguls problem is that he's just watered down Darkseid. They even look alike (big bulky bald man of a funny color with some armor protecting the back of their head)
He had one good creative story that let him last because it's considered one of the quintessential Superman stories, otherwise no one really does anything with him.

It's worse than that, Mongul is Thanos if he DC since Starlin wrote it exactly the same. And Thanos is Darkseid if he Marvel. So a watered down copy of a watered down copy. Of course, these characters can be salvaged if written with a completely different spin (as current Superman is trying to do with Mongul).

>For the Man Who Has Everything is far, far better than Return to Krypton
hahaha...no.
Moore can't do pathos because he is too busy trying to be clever even though he writes funny books for a living.
Seigel is pure soul.

Starlin had a few good mongul stories. The moore one is mediocre and people pretend to like it because they are embarrassed to like a childrens superhero character like Superman
>s-s-s-see superman isn't lame!!! Alan Moore wrote a story with him
hahaha fucking absolutely fucking pathetic.

> So a watered down copy of a watered down copy.

….how would a rip-off of Mogul for Marvel look and act like then?

All of Mongul’s stories Pre-Crisis were awesome, but you wouldn’t know that because you didn’t read them.

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Moore plus Gibbons is high pathos.
That Siegel/Boring book is good, but not nearly as powerful. It's not even close.
You sit there just lying to people.
Moore's too busy trying to write a good story, but I guess it can't be too good or philistines will feel oppressed.
>pretend
KEK

Nice art.

Same applies to Vermin.

Starlin and Return to Krypton are hacky old shit. It just doesn't read well at all.

Terrax

Marv wolfman's writing is hacky and dated, so most people wouldn't make it to Alan Moore's two issues of Vigilante. The Kupperberg run is solid but the Moore issues staying in reprint through the Alan Moore collection elevate the series and the character,.

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Iffy about Starlin, but Return to Kryton is super charming. It's a nice read, it just doesn't compare to For the Man.

Vermin was awesome from day one, pleb.

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>power level faggotry terminology

Mr. Freeze would still be a d-lister if it wasn't for "Heart Of Ice".

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The different incarnations of the Suicide Squad have saved so many characters from obscurity, even the ones who died.

Joker was always popular. Those stories made him darker and more like his original appearance stories, but he was never going to be obscure.

Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Doom Patrol

Does Knite Man in the War of Riddles and Jokes also counts?

Probably, I doubt Kite-Man would have been included in the Harley Quinn TV show if it wasn't for Hell Yeah.

the story is mediocre as itself, really it's just Kite Man alone that made him semi-underground famous

He even showed up as a poster boy for forgotten characters in Morrison's Animal Man.

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>you wouldn’t know that because you didn’t read them.
Yes, that tends to be what "obscure" means.

Funny.

Please fucking tell me you're kidding.

>I doubt Kite-Man would have been included in the Harley Quinn TV show if it wasn't for Hell Yeah.
do they referenced it on the show?

Seriously, The Joker was ripped off by other countless rival publishers (Some before he'd even appeared in more than two comics), was considered for the serial but replaced with OC Prince Daka because of Wartime, a reviewer of the movie "Kiss of Death" in 1947 mockingly compared Widmark's character to The Joker, The Joker (and Penguin) were the only characters besides Batman and Robin themselves to appear in Mad Magazine's 'Batboy & Rubin" parody in 1954, a 1943 yearbook that popped up on Google Books had a student who was nicknamed Joker because he had a creepy smile, all long before The Joker had ever appeared in any other media.

I really, really hate tourists.

He's a member of the OG Sinister Six

It's his catchphrase

Moore's story is garbage though. Vigilante is a must-read though. I never cried before or after reading a comic book

and kupperberg was technically already on the book before moore's two fill-ins were released

Is his animal run good?

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Possibly the best Morrison anything.

I would dare say it's what put Morrison on the map, moreso than Doom Patrol

>hacky and dated

brainlet take

I'm pretty certain Batman writers intentionally made Mr. Freeze a joke d-lister because they hated the 1966 TV Show.

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>ike every other character in Vengeance
really the only character not to come back from that mini is Ultimate nullifier, Zodiacs appearing on moon knight and besides America, the rest were characters with already pre-established history.

Terrax is just a Jobber he serves no other purpose other than being a Jobber. and beyond being a bald alien who is powerful he doesn't share anything with Mongul

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Heart of Ice was both a blessing and a curse. It saved Freeze from obscurity but now almost every time he appears it's a variation of Heart of Ice.

You're a retard. The topic is about characters SAVED by stories. Joker became more popular because of Death in the family and Killing Joke, but he was always a primary fixture in Batman mythos.

And then the superfag decided to nerf Mongul and make him into a jobber post-CoIE.

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>post explaining about how Joker was a hugely popular villain
>somehow is opposed to saying he was a primary fixture in Batman stories

Clean your glasses buddy.

Is this the origin of "it's the Ssshizzziit" of Snoop Dog?

Everyone was nerfed post crisis. Mongul just wasn't used enough for his power level to rise overtime like Supes had.

He's talkin about Mongul. Don't you faggot know how to read?

If anything those stories did that for Todd and Barbara.

Fuck I meant to reply to

No. Even if Goblin wouldn't be the primary Spidey villain forevermore he'd still be on the level of Ock and Venom. He wouldn't be at the very top of the list but he'd still be on the same level.

Was going to post about this series and Who's Who putting the lie to OP's statement and thus exposing his faggotry, but it in no 'rapes' Alan Moore's story LMFAO

And while Gwen wouldn't be the tragic girlfriend I'd bet we'd still end up with a bunch of nostalgic writers emphasizing her importance by the 90s.

Infinite Crisis and Superboy Prime. Ganthet and Emerald Twilight, If you read Ganthet's Tale he wasn't at all meant to be the not-Yoda he ended up being.

The Adam West show saved Riddler and Catwoman, both of whom had been outta commission by over a decade in comics.

I wanna say Claremont and Byrne's run helped pull Kazar out of obscurity but I don't know if it exactly counts cause he and the Savage Land were already associated with the X-men. Still, if the run hadn't happened I bet we'd see them less than we already have.

Kite-Man is the unofficial mascot of the I Hat Everything channel on Youtube. I guarantee he's had millions more views there than Tom King's tired dreck

Those issues are not obscure, user. They sold nearly a million copies
You simply haven't read it and so have no knowledge or understanding. That doesn't make it obscure

They aren't in the Showcase/Archive/best of decade trades so most people after their initial run wouldn't have read them.

Doubt it. Gwen was immortalized by her death. At best, she'd be Betty tier. Ultimately forgotten in favor MJ, which was the directory before getting killed off.
I guess it's more accurate to say he was saved by being Norman. Tying him to Harry brought him closer to Peter, which allowed him an avenue to continue reappearing and presenting a more personal threat. If it wasn't Gwen it would've been someone else eventually.

You're the complete retard if you really believe Joker wasn't popular or remembered until 1989
What a fucking brainlet take, holy shit

Spbp

Betty isn't in obscure tier though. Sure, she's not Gwen or MJ but I've talked with normies who're aware of her.

Ka-Zar had already helmed an ongoing series by that point though.

Now we just need to save everyone else from Ganthet's Tale

Nearly a million vs the less than 200,000 who purchased the trade
Get over yourself, zoomie. Your generation doesn't define shit

And how many of those million are read by people who're actively members of the current comic book reading community? Not a zoomie btw.

Nah, Kraven was always fairly popular

Lobo appearing L.E.G.I.O.N. '89 and being part of Dox's Brainiac retreaval crew in a Superman crossover saved him from the obscurity of Omega Men

Why would that matter?
Do you think you write the comics? Or have any part to play at all in that decision process?
Are you understanding why I think you sound like a zoom zoom?

Because you're an idiot who automatically thinks people who disagree with yourself must be from a group you've already decided you dislike.

Wow, a guy stronger than Superman. What an amazing and inventive character.

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> ….how would a rip-off of Mogul for Marvel look and act like then?

Apocalypse

The JLA/JSA crossovers back in the silver age saved the JSA and led to All Star Comics revival which led to All Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. And then Starman saved what was left of the JSA in the late 90s.

That's why I said at best. Betty benefitted by other writers doing stuff with her besides being Peter's gf. There's no way of knowing if Gwen would've had the same fate.

Are you braindead?

>no argument
You sure you aren't a zoomie, thinking anybody gives a fuck about your tears?

Are you genuinely mongoloid?

Am I the only person who's gotten a bit tired of the joker? Like, he's a good villain who's got draw, but over the past decade or two writers have wanked him up to a walking Plot armor anomaly who beats everyone else at their speciality and makes the rest of batman's villains look like jokes for no reason except to not allow the joker to be seen as equaled by anyone else.

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Fucking same, honestly jokers at his best when hes a goofball and not some super edgy monster that cant be defeated

I really just can't agree that a character introduced in the Lee-Ditko run (albeit at the tale end essentially) and played a major role in the Lee-Romita run would fall off that hard, even if it was intentional by the writers.

Mr. Freeze was canonically saved from being murdered and forgotten about by BTAS version of him.

he was so forgettable as a character that the writers had him killed off to get rid of him like other C listers, and then had to hastily bring him back after heart of ice.

Tons of people brag incessantly that they're sick of the Joker. I never hear the fucking end of it.

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TAS saved Clayface as well, the character(s) was/were pretty much retired by then (Hagen was killed by the Crisis, Karlo sank into a literal hole for nearly a decade, Preston fucked off with Lady Clayface and never was relevant again...)

I was wondering when this would be posted

Elsa's still wearing the trench coat, too.

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Alan Moore half assed story is hacky and old too bro. Starlin’s Mongul stories for DCCP are a proper SciFi adventure and Seigel “return to Krypton” actually makes you feel for Superman’s plight since it’s actually happening to him.
Moore’s childish story only gets point for having a better ending and that’s because he had a full annual to set it up instead of ten pages

Look, no one is saying Mongul is a bad character but he's just not very popular or memorable to the vast majority of people. No one asks when Mongul will return as the main villain for an arc, or when he will be in the DCU, or talks about his old runs, even Warworld, except For The Man Who Has Everything. Without that one story he'd be as relevant as Ultra Humanite, Titano, or Rogol Zaar.

You're on a comic book board, of course these people can't read.

To be honest I had no idea Wendigo was a Hulk villain. I've only ever seen him in cross overs with Wolverine. I don't read a lot of Marvel, but I've seen him pop up a few times with Logan.

The Flash of Two Worlds really was a hell of an issue

He has to have plot armor so he can match Batman's plot armor

And that's why DC is outdated and irrelevant. Batwank is acceptable. Jokerwank and Harleywank is unacceptable.

None of the other batman villains require it user, they just... strip batman's plot armor so he's a normal human.

I just read some X-Men comic & it was actually good, had some new weird villain I've never seen before

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And they always fail, don't they? The Joker has fucked with Batman and the Batfam for a long time

Squirrel Girl would just be a "remember when Doctor Doom was beaten by squirrels in a story drawn by Ditko" meme if Dan Slott hadn't brought her back to join the Great Lakes Avengers, and from there she moved on to solid B-List status with an ongoing that lasted 50 issues.

he was then replaced by his son, who was weaker. I have no idea if the real Mongul is back with the nu-52 reboot.

> the Moore issues staying in reprint through the Alan Moore collection
Wait, there's more collected Vigilante? I thought DC just did a Vol. 1 and stopped.

And then his son was that replaced him was killed by his son/original Mongul's grandson that looks exactly like Mongul II.

I refuse to believe gold balls had a post Bendis future before Hickman put him in the five

Setting aside the fact that it's working on a dead man, the idea of that working on Scarecrow bugs me.

Crane and Poison Ivy should both really be able to ignore Joker Venom even if for very different reasons.

it shouldn't affect sinestro either due to his forcefield.
like 50% of the people there should be immune.

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Joker toxin has been a meme since at least the 90s. It's basically just plot magic for when he needs to do something otherwise impossible.

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Starlin had the perfect opportunity to write Jason Todd out of the story by making him live happily ever after with his birth mother. By killing him off, Starlin made him an icon.

Not true. Aquaman survived into the present because of the Filmation cartoon in the 60's. Namor can't compete with Aquaman cause he's a shity antihero. Why would I waist my time on a guy who spends half the story dragging his feet to the plot when Aquaman will just right in the fray cause he's an altruist.

That's because "Deep Freeze" ruined his entire revenge shtick by introducing popsicle Nora.

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They should have made Walt Disney the new mr. Freeze from that point on and turned Victor into a new anti-hero character like what harley is.

its clear that Mr. Freeze ultimately has good intentions since he worked against Walt Disney to save his wife, so him being torn between working for criminals for money/resources to cure his wife and also drawing a line of where he knows his wife would hate him for the work would be a good dynamic.

Much better than the "His wife's actually an evil super villain once defrosted and he's pussy whipped" take on Nora they've tried.

I thought the Batman Beyond episode mixed things up well enough

Starlin wanted to give Jason Todd AIDS to retire him as Robin but keep him around as a walking PSA for AIDS awareness and show how progressive Batman was having an adopted son who had AIDS.

Editorial wanted to write Jason out for all of 1989 both to make Batman a solo hero for his 50th Anniversary but also synergy with the movie that came out that year. They also wanted to test out doing a phone poll for a major storyline to let fans decide how a story would end.

Marv Wolfman was anti-killing Tim Drake off and was the one who rushed out the creation of Tim Drake to fill the void and dealt with the fall out from Jason's death, as Starlin left the book after DITF to go back to Marvel once Shooter was fired/DeFalco let him come back due to Englehart demanding he bring back Thanos to job to Mantis.

From what's been said, had fans voted to save Jason, Wolfman would have gotten custody of him and try his damnest to rehab Jason as a character, then give him a huge storyline push in Batman (which Wolfman took over again once Starlin left and after several fill-in issues when Starlin bailed) to bring him back as Robin.

I've always had a soft spot for this dude for basically being the quintessential forgettable 90's superhero. Though he does have a cool costume too.

Was she really good there?

Damn, this was some good shit.

Didn't he take on the entire Bronze Age JL once and they were barely able to take him down? Always thought that was cool.

That AIDS story still leaves me in disbelief, that shit's insane. Also where'd you hear about Wolfman trying to write Jason? That would have been interesting.

Yeah, I wanna know too. That sounds interesting. Wolfman did write Jason in New Teen Titans, but I don't remember if that was pre-Crisis or post-Crisis.

Sometimes post-Crisis Bruce or Dick or Jason would reference stuff that happened pre-Crisis, so not everything was retconned by COIE.

>I turn off the unhook
>find a cringe video essay of this story

so this was an e-celeb thread?

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Terrax works as the anti Surfer who abuses his power and feels no remorse over conquering. Hes just shit outside of that because he feels like a by the books cartoon villein when solo surfer stories are trying to go full too deep for you space opera.

No he wasn't, he basically got written off as soon as Lee left, hadn't really appeared in yeara and DeMatteis even said that he'd thought Kraven was a shitty, shallow character until he hit on the idea of making him into a kind of Dostoevsky character. Kraven's Last Hunt is the story that made people give a shit about him.

t. low test readers

Even that crossover he wrote with superman and the swamp thing was better.

The entire Batman franchise was saved by the Adam West show.

Bitch, this ain't just Superman, this is silver age Superman, the most stupidly broken character ever put in fiction.

Can't argue with this one.

After Mike Carlin, I believe it was, did everything in his power to destroy the revived JSA including cancelling their book while it was doing well and GAINING sales because of his personal belief that nobody wanted to read about old people.

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Mongul is basically a shittier version of Darkseid, THAT'S why he doesn't get used anymore.

Any plotline with Mongul could be done better with Darkseid.

Kinda, sorta, he's a shittier version of Thanos, who was a Darkseid ripoff.

The DCAU saved John Stewart from being a footnote among anyone who's not already a big Green Lantern fan and elevated him above Kyle and arguably even Hal for a time. They also retconned in the DCAU USMC background.

Mongul would work better if they leaned more into his "conqueror with a love of combat" thing instead of him just being Thanoseid Lite. Like make him more about honorable combat, respecting strength, fighting prowess and courage. Just a guy for who strength and combat are everything. Like beat him in combat? Your world goes free, no strings attached. His empire is safe, stable and well maintained but won through countless dead and broken bodies.

He should be the ultimate physical opponent for any character.

Wolfman had Jason in NYT #20-31, which was post crisis but before Collins retconned about a years worth of post crisis stories with Jason to make him a juvenile delinquent, which Wolfman opposed.

During this stint, Jason and Donna Troy became very close and this carried over with later writers as far as Donna being the only hero Jason would listen to and take orders from

Terrax works as a surfer foil because he's surfers polar opposite. Became Galactus herald purely for power and double crossed him first chance he could. And while surfer is an introvert and self reflecting and self pittying, terrax is an extrovert who knows he is a piece of shit and not care and is both proactive and genre savy when it comes to dealing with bad guys like doom and morg in that he doesn't trust them and will side with heroes against them when necessary

This, but the first run.

I remember when the Avengers were a bunch of B and C-listers with a really good team behind them

But said Filmation show wouldn't have been made if the Justice League hadn't raised his profile.

Night Raven could be an example of this. even though it from completely forgotten character to character only remembered by Alan Moore Fanboys, His Night Raven stuff is pretty much the only thing anyone remembers about that character he even appeared in marvel #1000 as the only Marvel UK appearance in it.

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And Deadshot wouldn't have joined the Suicide Squad if somebody hadn't given him a cool redesign.

"Animal man" fuck I've been putting that off for too long now.