Opeth mainly uses E Standard, so everything is really clear, and the boys know music theory enough to make EXTREMELY EVIL riffs.
Heavily down tuned deatchore/modern metal tries to be more dissonant but it's just a boring wall of overly compressed noise. Not evil at all.
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i don't think you know what dissonant means
Mikael didn't know any theory when he wrote most of the death metal stuff, it was by ear. Also they use drop D, open D, etc on the stuff that sounds especially heavy
isn't their earlier stuff in Eb too?
not that it makes a difference of course
I like Opeth and have seen/watched more than enough interviews, so I'm 100% confident in telling you that Mikael does not know theory. He just writes from his own intuition. What makes you think they know music theory?
>dissonant
What does that mean in this context? Dissonance is an extremely broad word and it's pretty damn hard to find a metal band that has none of it.
I also don't really consider Opeth to be that dissonant or evil sounding. Are you looking for stuff like The Axis of Perdition, Gorguts or Blut Aus Nord?
>What makes you think they know music theory
probably one of those theoryfags who thinks thoery = good music, no theory = bad music
Are you implying downtuning leads to compression? That is not how any of this works OP
i don't think he was trying to imply that, i think he was just saying that most modern metal happens to be both very downtuned and very compressed
Why even mention it if there's no connection, that's the part I don't get. He clearly doesn't understand what "dissonance" or "theory" is, wouldn't be crazy to assume he doesn't understand loudness, compression or brickwalling either
Not an argument, And yes most metal is downtuned AND overly compressed.
And Opeth's riffs are fucking dissonant, and clearly Mikael knows his theory without learning it formally. He has a feel for what's theoretically dissonant..
Master's Apprentices intro is heavier than any modern Deathcore bullshit, and it's in E Standard and not brickwalled
metal bands, especially bog standard death metal ones, tune down and make it """"""heavy""""""" to make up for the dearth of musicianship.
>clearly Mikael knows his theory without learning it formally. He has a feel for what's theoretically dissonant..
oh so you are one of those annoying theory fags
>anyone who writes good music knows music theory!
pathetic
>Not an argument
It was by definition an argument.
>most metal is downtuned AND overly compressed.
Yes, and as I've already said, they're not connected. It's completely incidental. Trying to be "extra dissonant" isn't what leads to the compressed sound, assuming we're even talking about the same thing regarding "compression", which I'm beginning to doubt. Deathspell Omega plays in D standard and their last two albums are less compressed than most E standard shit out there.
>Opeth's riffs are fucking dissonant
Compared to what? Dissonance is a broad, relative term. Are they dissonant compared to pop music? Sure, but in the wide world of extreme metal, they're not that evil. Deliverance is definitely their darkest album, but even that doesn't really compare to a band like Ad Nauseum.
>clearly Mikael knows his theory without learning it formally. He has a feel for what's theoretically dissonant.
This is self-refuting pretentious nonsense. Theory isn't about feel. Mikael has said in interviews that he doesn't use theory, he just has a wide range of influences. He's been listening to jazz lately, and you can hear that in songs like Garroter, the rhythm is very reminiscent of Paul Desmond or Brubeck. But that's not what "knowing theory" means, unless every fucking musician who is influenced by someone is now doing theory. Can you name any actual theoretical things Mikael is doing? You clearly don't know what these words actually mean and are just slapping them on your favorite music to seem smarter than you actually are. Is all this enough of an "argument" for you, retard?
not the guy you're replying to, but:
>they're not connected. It's completely incidental
most bands want to be louder and heavier, so downtuning and compression usually walk side by side even if they are not actually related
>compared to what? dissonance is a broad, relative term
Compared to what is considered consonant in music theory, obviously. Use of the b2, b5, bb5, maj7 intervals are dissonances by definition.
There's a difference between musical dissonance and dissoshit like Deathspell Omega and Ad Nauseam which aims to be literal anti-music.
>can you name any actual theoretical things Mikael is doing?
everything anyone does in music has a name, even if that doesn't imply the author actually knows the theory behind what he's doing.
Bro, I am responding to your claim that I said "compression and dissonance" are the same thing.
I was just making a point on how modern metal is overly compressed and downtuned. Get it? Compression is related to mixing and mastering, tuning is related to how you tune your strings while you're playing.
Those are not related, I'm just mentioning them as common traits seen in modern metal.
Their riffs are dissonant period. Extreme metal is just downtuned to sound "evil", but they don't know how to create true dissonance. Mikael might not have been formally trained on theory, but his riffs, when studied, show his heavy use of dissonance to create the evil feel
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Bingo. They are not related per se, but they are related on what bands are trying to achieve when applying them to their sound. Downtune to make it sound "evil", overly compress their mix to make it sound loud
louder and heavier =/= dissonant, that's kinda the point we're all dancing around, pal
>dissonance is dissonant compared to consonance
Thanks for the music lesson, but I meant compared to which other bands. And get filtered
Mikael overly relies on ringing Open Es as transitions and uses octaves for that "airy" effect all the time, if he actually was doing theory he'd be doing non-functional harmony, diminished 9ths or some shit. Most of the dissonance in Opeth is minor seconds or minor fifths, which are by far the most common ways for any band of any genre to do dissonance.
I don't think anyone's arguing their riffs aren't dissonant. Every metal band has dissonant riffs, that's kinda what makes metal metal in the first place. It just comes off as such an empty, useless truism. It's also weird because part of the reason i like Opeth is because I don't find them as "dissonant" as other metal bands, and I'm not talking about the clean acoustic shit. Their softer combo of prog rock and prog death is kinda the whole appeal of most of their albums
>Extreme metal is just downtuned to sound "evil"
yes
>but they don't know how to create true dissonance
now you're just being retarded
is this not dissonant?
youtube.com
>louder and heavier =/= dissonant
i'm not OP you fucktard i never implied that. can't you fucking read?
>Thanks for the music lesson, but I meant compared to which other bands
dissonance doesn't work like that you dumb faggot. Slayer riffs aren't less dissonant just because some french fags are more dissonant. Me and OP are talking about the universal definition of dissonance while you are obsessed by your french dissoshit garbage
>non-functional harmony
that's just chromaticism and playing out of key
>diminished 9ths
why the fuck would you use a diminished 9th chord in metal, that's just being jazzy for the sake of jazz
And the extent to which you use obscure techniques does not have to do with whether or not you're using theory, there's plenty of power metal bands who use theory to compose and they're just doing regular ii-IV-V and circle of fifths cookie cutter composition