I'm gonna spam this thread one more time since the last one got 0 recognition, anyways:
I honestly don't get the hate towards jazz on here. They make it out to be drivel but honestly, serial composers and jazz musicians conjure the most interesting harmonies, and it's a relatively nuanced genre, we can get canonic influenced composed works such as keith jarret and valerie capers to cecil taylor and miles davis
with their chaotic avant-garde stuff. This board brings up what adorno said, but that was just him seething about capitalism and the repeated patterns in the swing era. Goebbels said it promoted "negro degeneracy" but jazz and modal harmony is pretty sophisticated and even members of the ss would listen to hot music despite how genetically superior they are. For a genre like jazz, it makes sense for this board to hold disdain due to it's multicultural image but surely diversity as in running a governmental system is completely different from implementing it in art, besides, lots of jazz pieces are considered objectively beautiful by the consensus. Help me understand why "negermusik" is so bad, I love some stauss and wagner, but harmonically, their chromaticism doesn't do it for me. I'd love to hear your thoughts and although this is an anonymous board that's holding a discussion about a controversial subject, try to be civil. Don't resort to petty hatred or neglect hospitality, not that it's my position to tell anyone what to do, I think we'd benefit from thoughtful discourse rather than a pointless quarrel. It'd be a waste of time honestly.
Fuck it I'm posting it again
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ornette coleman's the shape of jazz to come should be a starting point for all who vehemently hate experimentation within jazz or music in general
that record is fantastic, it practically re-wrote standards.
This is a hideki taniuchi thread now
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could be but I want answers
Jazz is just too hard to fully appreciate it. I couldn’t fully get into jazz until after getting into classical and avant garde classical like serialism. I like to think of it as a sort of psychedelic classical, especially with artists like Charles Mingus or Krzysztof Komeda. Sure some jazz just sounds nice, but that would be the complete depth that the average person would appreciate it, they wouldn’t appreciate it for the more subtle reasons that you or I do. My theory is that a lot of the jazz hate you see just comes from randos who have never actually listened to it seriously, and not anyone with a substantive opinion
my sentiments exactly, atonality is critiqued for it's attack against "objective beauty" but honestly, that take is a failed attempt at elitism and unironically demonstrates the opposite effect. There's a reason why Schoenberg and takemitsu scare junkies when played.
Basically this. I'm not saying gibberish wankery in music doesn't exist, but most accusations of "pretentious" these days are uttered by people who aren't even putting in any effort to understand what they're intaking. Most jazz isn't noise, a ton of work and rehearsal goes into a lot of those crazier recordings, a lot of those songs do have some structure or tonal center. But these days the deepest criticism anyone wants to have of songs of this type is "lots of notes + dissonance = wankery", even though the emotion that a well made free form jazz can elicit is absolutely indescribable, it feels like your soul is going to burst out of your chest at times. I've always been a jazz fan, but even I used to hate post-bob and free form improv. I thought it was musical word salad, I thought it was just dipshits trying to show off (and don't get me wrong, some of it definitely is). But once you learn to speak their language, entire worlds and colors open up to you. But why put in effort into art when you can just use smearing language atop a moral high horse?
If people still non-ironically misinterpret that Adorno essay in 2022, those people are not worth my time
Unit Structures would have blown Adornos' nuts off
>muh culture industry
>muh objective standard
I honestly like adorno but the dude was just a butthurt marxist most of the time from my understanding, what was produced he thought was exploited. Honestly agree with Mussolini's music takes more than adornos (although he composed some decent tunes).
he honestly would've loved it. In fact most people like jazz, even sophisticated white supremacists appreciate it.
I barely know anything about music theory, but this piece of music is all I need in order to understand that jazz is superior to the music that 95% of people regularly listen to.
god I love this piece.
That whole album fucking slaps. Anyone who doesn't like it is worse than a pleb, they're a fucking soulless demon. My Little Brown Book and In a Sentimental Mood hit me hard every single goddamn time. God, I love Duke and Trane
might be a little bit of a hunch, but I'm beginning to believe that Any Forums are just the white supremacist versions of sjws.
jazz is a dimwit filter. we all get it. there's no reason to belabor the point.
lol well said.
It just sounds like jazz. It doesn't sound like something I haven't heard before in a million other jazz songs.
>It just sounds like jazz
and it sounds fantastic.
I’ve not seen many jazz hate here. I see some jazz threads and very few post hating on them.
You are prob focusing on the hate
It doesn't sound unique or grab your attention, it just sounds like background music. I don't mean that as an insult to it though.
maybe, but I run into it time to time and for some reason it's occurring often. Probably depends on the board.
How is this even a question? Jazz (at least the top tier stuff) is objectively good.
>Adorno
Ah I see
fair, if it doesn't garb your attention it doesn't, but that harmonic shifts really get me, the simplistic Db I7-IV7-VI breaking down into a pile of chords which leads up to the stacked sixths really catch my attention. Loved woodyard and the chemistry between the musicians too. Has a really minor feel but the rhythmic flair gives off a moody yet giddy fashion.