Here's a thread for my autistic frens who actually mic up a drum kit and record it. There are a billion ways to skin this cat, share your secrets/techniques or share what sounds like ass.
>my drum kit is a cheap hand-me-down
>dampening rings on all toms + moongel
>I use a piccolo snare
>kick res head ON (with sound hole)
>MIC CHOICE
>MIC PLACEMENT
>OUTBOARD CONSIDERATIONS
>ROOM CONSIDERATIONS
I'll throw some shit at the wall in another post because I'm stoned and I want to think
DRUM RECORDING THREAD
Tyler Hernandez
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
vocaroo.com
twitter.com
Jackson Kelly
I have never actually recorded a real drum kit, but fiddled with premade recordings a couple of time, bumping with drum kit from local punk practice place
Dylan Thompson
OP HERE
I wouldn't say I've ever achieved the drum sound I have in my mind, but certain changes have gotten me closer and shed light on what to change next.
>KICK
I use an AKG D112 inside the kick drum, shoving it deep through the sound hole and pointing at the batter. One day I may take the res head off so I can point it more straight on at the batter. RN I have to point it up and to the side slightly. Kick sound needs work.
>SNARE
I've tried a handful of mics on snares. In a studio, I've used a Sennheiser 441 on top and I think that was the best sound I've gotten. I don't own one. At home I currently use a Shure SM7b on snare top, I'm happy with it. I haven't mic'd the bottom of a snare in a while, though I am not opposed. Usually I use an SM57 under the snare and it works. At home, I lack the available inputs.
>TOMS
I craigslisted 3 80s Sennheiser MD421U mics, they sound great on my shitty toms. Sometimes I just use 1 pointed down in between the 2 rack toms, sometimes I close mic both rack toms + the floor. Pretty close to the head but angled pointing at the middle where the stick hits. Don't like ringy toms, and I hard gate the tom tracks when mixing so they don't add much when not sounding. I've only used 421s (and e609 clip-ons when I first started). e609s were boomy AS FUCK. Kinda cool actually. Other suggestions would be interesting.
>HAT???
I like mic-ing the hat like a medium range overhead. It's an important sound to the kit but gets hard to control in the mix. I will use nothing but a Beyerdynamic M160 ribbon mic on the hat (at home). In the studio I've used an AKG C451b SDC on the hat with success.
Alexander Morris
That is a beautiful trash set, reminds me of Zach Hill and a couple jazz shows I've been to. I like the "less is more and we carpool in a hatchback" approach.
Josiah Torres
I like the 1 rack tom set up. When I buy an actual kit I'll probably shoot for something that looks like that, maybe 1 rack tom, but 2 different size floor toms. Crash + Ride + some in between cymbal. I don't know shit about drum kits desu (brands/quality/sound).
>OVERHEADS
My overhead game is trash, which sucks because they're supposed to paint the big picture of the kit. At home I use two unmatched Shure SM81 SDCs, they are very plain sounding. They take processing well though, their frequency response is very flat. In tha studio I've used Neumann KM184s and enjoyed them, I've also used an AEA R88 ribbon in the middle between the KM184 pair. That was cool, centered the picture nicely. Side note: at home I'm working with 7' ceilings. Not great. I haven't been happy with "front" mic-ing instead of overhead mic-ing.
>ROOM
Yes, room mics. Sometimes I do mid/side centered in the room like 10-12 feet away. I have an Avantone CV-12 tube mic, i through that bad boy on Figure 8 mode and line up the kit in the dead spot. Then I put some LDC pointed straight at the kit directly under the CV12. Sometimes an AKG C214, RODE NT1A, Blue Dragonfly, gotta work with what I have. Then I duplicate the CV12 recording, pan one hard left and the duplicate hard right, and flip the phase of one. In tha studio I've used a pair of AKG C414s for L/R room mics. I love C414s, I don't own one though. I want to try a pair of Royer R121s as front/room mics.
>KICK AGAIN
I've used one of those SUBKICK mics, I really dig them. I don't own one, I should get one. They are great to mix with.
Bentley Butler
If you haven't got the sound you're looking for, it might be that you are spending a lot of time thinking about great mics to use on a cheap drum set. they are an acoustic instrument unlike guitar, so the foundation of good drum sound comes from having a good kit and good drum tuning.
From looking at the pic, on a cheap kit with moongels and pinstripes, the toms must be quite dead. You say you dislike boomy drums, but general wisdom is that you need to have a least a bit of boom and ring or the toms won't cut through the mix. If you're really trying to tune away the boom, you probably arent getting the best sound for the drum, which is usually to find roughly the pitch of the shell and try to tune the heads to resonate with it
I also see that you have a very nice pair of hats, but your other cymbals are cheap. generally cheap cymbals don't project, and they might have one kind of cool sound, but will get lost in most mixes
This probably is coming off overly critical and gearfaggy, but it seems odd to have a lot of nice mics and not nice drums. Nice heads, which you have, is much more important than nice shells, but crappy crashes and ride, that should be your number one investment. So that is my secret. Nice gear, and really nice tuning.
Chase Cruz
Sure, I'll play. I'm autistic about drums and recording them
>new-ish heads (both sides) are a HUGE factor in getting a good recorded sound
>tuning of the heads is the second biggest factor imo (drumdial is a pretty decent tuner and it's like $50 and gives you an easy way to get each of your lugs dead-even in tension)
>buy a kickport for the kick drum. massively tightens up even the loosest sounding bass
>if recording metal or hard rock, consider buying a kevlar kick pad for the front side of the kick drum. sounds better than just doing triggered kick
>i'm a big advocate of the drummer knowing the ins-and-outs of his kits (which kit pieces need dampening, placement for ease of use, etc)
>overheads: have the drummer sit on his throne in his normal playing posture. then have him reach his arms all the way above his head as far as he can with his sticks halfway outstretched. set the overheads right around this range for optimal tone AND ensuring the fucker ain't gonna hit your mics
>mics set very close to their respective kit piece, as it's easier to get rid of a bad-sounding room
>if the room sounds good, throw a mic in the opposite side of the room and as high up as you can
>doesn't really matter what mics you use when you're close mic'ing shit. make sure they don't clip, and check for phase problems. simple as.
>if you want "industry standard" mics, you'll need a few SM57's (go-to for snare, sounds decent on toms). you'll probably want a Beta 52A, D112 or something similar for the kick drum and/or floor tom. an SM7B always comes in handy (great on snare, toms, kick, hi-hat, anything). Overheads mics are kinda dealer's choice. It varies from guy to guy, and everybody has a long story why THEIR overhead mics sound better.
>you'll probably want to mic the high hat, but only so you can CANCEL IT OUT IN THE MIX LATER because they're so fucking noisy
do these basic things, and you'll have a really useable drum sound right off the bat. no fx needed.
Grayson Torres
>This probably is coming off overly critical and gearfaggy, but it seems odd to have a lot of nice mics and not nice drums.
This is exactly what I want to hear m8. I need a brain to pick in this exact regard. The mics/mic placement make a huge difference, don't get me wrong, but the instrument itself is the source. There's no getting around that. At home, I work with what I have. The mic-ing/engineering has been trial & error, experimentation, practice for years. I can still hear positive changes to a bad kit. I'm not a drummer, my old drummer gave me his handmedown kit. This year I'll replace it, I don't know where to start though.
>let's not worry about acoustic treatment of the room atm kek
Say I wanted new shells, something like . 1 rack, some size kick, and a floor. I'd get another snare too to swap out my piccolo snare sometimes. Would some brands suit certain types of music better? Got any advice on that?
Brandon Lopez
Phase align your mics. Thats the trick to it all.
Mason Russell
cont'd:
Panning:
>overheads: hard left / hard right
>kick: dead center
>snare: anywhere from dead center to up to 20% left or right (depending on kit orientation in stereo space)
>hi hat: between 30% and 70% left or right (depending on kit orientation in stereo space)
>toms: some people like to hard pan the highest and lowest tom all the way left and right respectively, and pan the middle tom(s) somewhere in between, so you get a huge stereo sweep on tom fills. I prefer only panning toms up to 70% left and right. Preserves your big stereo sweep for fills, but doesn't step on the overheads too much
BASIC Mixing/EQ'ing:
>less is ALWAYS more
>cutting frequencies is better than boosting in most cases
>cut useless frequencies out of your mix (overheads, snare, toms don't need massive amounts of low end. the kick doesn't need much high end. the snare needs mids, etc)
>your snare and kick tracks will probably have the most fx plugins (and they should have maybe 4 or 5 plugins each MAXIMUM)
>most kit pieces get very light compression and some eq, nothing more
>snare can have some extra color in the form of plate reverbs or saturation
>kick can have extra compression and saturation
>rest of the kit stays relatively dry
>entire kit gets run through a tape saturation plugin (for "gluing" the kit together) and a mildly-stiff limiter
>add some room reverb to the entire kit as well if you don't have a good room mic take to mix in at a lower volume
>LESS IS ALWAYS MORE
Michael Butler
I bought used drums like 2 weeks ago and still haven't set them up.
Dylan Carter
>drumdial
Noted.
>overhead distance, stretch out arms/hold sticks half way
Will try this method next time I mic up a kit, hopefully within my 7' ceilings kek or else I'll have to remove the drop ceiling tiles above it (should anyway)
>pic
Lots o cymbals. I like the 1 rack tom + 2 floors setup. I gotta figure how to buy a new kit with that config. What kind of music do you play, what size kick, and can you share your autistic thought process on your cymbal choices?
Amen brother. Jarjar is the key to it all
Adrian Ward
that kit is kinda meme'd up. when i'm recording it, i only take the kit pieces that are NEEDED for the song (determined through jam sessions with access to every kit piece). It usually ends up being a 4 piece with 3-4 cymbals
Easton Jenkins
bump
Daniel Diaz
Does Left Brain vs. Right Brain play a role in panning or is that a silly thought kek. I keep the kit orientation panning true to the actual setup, but my ears always prefer player orientation (hat slightly left of center, floor ~75% right).
How would you describe your core cymbals? I bought used Paistes just to learn with. I actually really like the sound of my crash and crashride. My ride is nothing special at all. I want a dark, brassy sounding ride. Something that sits real pretty well behind everything else in a mix. I'll probably just have to go to the store and hit some shit like I did for my hat.
>mixing
Might contribute to that line of thought in a bit. Do you gate individual tracks for space or do you find cutting the useless frequencies is enough?
Owen Martinez
I'm not too sure what role left/right brain plays in panning. I'm sure it's somewhere in there, even if at a base psychological level. The stuff I jotted down is considered pretty tried-and-true methods for getting a really great sounding basic stereo drum spread. It spans all genres and you can find examples of it damn near as far back as the invention of stereo sound.
There's two ways to build a drum kit in a stereo space, and each way DRASTICALLY effects the way the listener perceives the music. You can build the kit either AS the drummer or a someone watching the drummer. If we're talking about a regular right-handed drummer, then building the kit AS the drummer would mean hi-hat on the left hand side, ride cymbal on the right. This makes the listener feel much more "a part" of the band during listening. This is actually the more rare way to mix. Most mixes take the spectator approach (hi-hat on right, ride on left)
Cymbals are down to the drummer and the style of music. An expensive cymbal isn't necessarily a GOOD cymbal. And a cheap cymbal isn't necessarily a BAD cymbal. It all depends on how well they fit into the mix of a specific song. I know tons of drummers that use old and/or cheap cymbals because they like how it brings together the overall sound of their kit. Total judgment call. Whatever works best for the music is the right choice.
>Do you gate individual tracks for space or do you find cutting the useless frequencies is enough?
can't believe I neglected to talk about gating. YES. gating is important on almost EVERY aspect of recording. Guitars with distortion need gate, vocals need gate, and drums definitely need gates.
>Snare and toms are the big ones that you need to learn to gate well (there's tons of youtube vids that explain it better than i can)
>if you're recording metal/hard rock, your key word is TIGHT. Tight mix means gating almost everything so there's no bleed. Cymbals get gate, toms get gate, snare gets gate, etc
Easton Bailey
bump. any other anons have an actual drum recording setup? you can get KILLER sound with as few as 4 mics
Kevin Martin
I only know about the Glyn Johns technique
Parker Edwards
This vid is GOAT for getting great sound of any kit with damn near any mics
Austin Taylor
>If we're talking about a regular right-handed drummer, then building the kit AS the drummer would mean hi-hat on the left hand side, ride cymbal on the right. This makes the listener feel much more "a part" of the band during listening. This is actually the more rare way to mix.
That's fucking fascinating. I never thought of it that way. No wonder I instinctively mix hats towards the left. Whenever I listen to music recreationally, I ALWAYS insert myself into the band. I should play with contradicting this habit and see what happens.
Here's an experiment I did and had fun with - reamping drums. I recorded myself playing the kit, D112 on kick, SM7b on snare, M160 on hat, 421 between rack toms just pointing forward, and an SM81 on ride. Simple setup, played a kick/snare/hat groove and looped 4 bars. Then I routed the individual tracks through effects and amps
>Kick: spring reverb unit, to a battery powered fender guitar amp. a twangy crunch sound
>Snare: another spring reverb unit, + noise gate. Went to a Supro tube guitar amp, pretty high gain but with a power attenuator. Tube saturated snare
>Hat: went to an Egnater tube amp, preamp kinda clean, out the FX Loop, through a delay pedal, tap tempo to eighth notes, back into the amp, 5881 power tubes cooking. Nice hat repeats, kind of a When the Levee Breaks feel
>others: to a peavy modeling amp with a reverse effect that I dialed in to anticipate the strong beats
Mic'd all the amps and the room
vocaroo.com
>WIP
Chase Nelson
wow, i'm LOVING this drum sound. Very organically modified. I love the sound of turning real drums into "electronic" or "hip hop" style drums. I like what you're doing. you got a discord or soundcloud so we can pass tracks back and forth? you've got a good ear for tone.
You could go even further and put certain tracks (maybe the room mic, snare track or hi hat track) and running them through an overdriven or distorted tube amp to get a natural "bitcrush" sound. Lots of possibilities. If you like fucking around with re-amping drums, get one of picrel. they're like $70 on amazon and can make your kick/snare/toms sound absolutely BEAST. Very fun to fuck with. Cheap analog pedals are having a huge resurgence right now. You can get all sorts of pedals for $50 and under on amazon, alibaba, aliexpress,etc. Metal enclosures, most of them based on famous existing pedals. Fun to mess with if you do re-amping.
you ever watch dimsunk on youtube? he does all sorts of cool analog experiments and minimalist mic'ing techniques to get really sick drum sounds