You know what, people love to shit on Johto's Gyms (rightfully so)...

You know what, people love to shit on Johto's Gyms (rightfully so), but no one ever gives the Johto Elite Four enough credit. These teams are actually really good considering the limitations at the time. I like how Koga moves on from focusing on Poison-Types to focusing on status effects, with the inclusion of Forretress. And Karen, who instead of focusing on the limited roster of available Dark-Types, chooses to base her team on Pokémon that are predominantly black-coloured (a detail lost in HGSS by the way). Stuff like that helps to make the battles more difficult and more memorable. There is also a pretty good representation of Johto 'Mons, with 3 out of 4 of them having a Johto 'Mon as their ace, one of which is a Gen 1 character. The only changes I'd make is:
>Will's first Xatu becomes a Girafarig for more variety
>Koga's Venomoth becomes an Arbok to minimise the Fire weakness
>Bruno's Onix becomes a Golem because Onix is dogshit at this stage in the game and Golem does everything Onix can do better anyway
>Lance's first Dragonite becomes a Steelix, and his second one becomes a Tyranitar
Other than that, it's pretty damn perfect. Miles better than Hoenn's awful Elite Four.

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I wish they’d have given us a different roster after you beat them the first time.
>1st round after 8 badges: Will, Koga, Bruno, Karen, Champion Lance
>2nd round after 16 badges: Lorelei, Kurt (Ground specialist), Daisy Oak (Normal or Grass specialist) Lance, Champion Karen
>All rounds after Red: alternating the above two

I think there should've been a Champion Title Defense in HGSS.
>Lance with his HGSS rematch team
>Silver with Sneasel and Magneton evolved
>Eusine with a full team themed around catching
>Blue with Tyranitar and Heracross

The only memorable one is Karen and that's mainly due to her quote. The rest are cakewalks.

Gifarig Sweep

Shut up faggot, Johto has a great Elite Four, and I explained why. You haven't refuted any of my points.

>Johto Elite Four
Oh ffs, it's the Indigo Elite Four.
Kanto and Johto has the same league

Bump. I spent way too long writing this for it to archive with 6 replies.

While you make a good point, there really isn't much to discuss about this topic

>You know what, people love to shit on Johto's Gyms (rightfully so), but no one ever gives the Johto Elite Four enough credit
That's because most of people who shit on Johto gym leaders aren't tryign to give an honest critique of Johto. They only care about making Johto their scapegoat. They don't know anything about the games and get all their knowledge from unfunny GENTOO BAD memes. The fact that they happen to be right about Johto Gym Leaders having shit teams is a case of a broken clock being right twice a day.

>Shut up faggot, Johto has a great Elite Four, and I explained why. You haven't refuted any of my points.

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i would personally switch the ace xatu with slowking (new wills ace) and changed slowbro to girafarig so that there is more johto feel here, always felt like giving will 2 pokemon that already belonged to lorelei and giving him 2 xatus was redundant

also, i would kick the fucking bruno from the e4 and moved him to fighting dojo in kanto, that onix is a complete disgrace that far into the game and fighting types other than machamp are meme worthy in first gens

>always felt like giving will 2 pokemon that already belonged to lorelei

>he doesn't know

>also, i would kick the fucking bruno from the e4 and moved him to fighting dojo in kanto, that onix is a complete disgrace that far into the game and fighting types other than machamp are meme worthy in first gens
Yes, replace Bruno with a new Ground-Type Elite Four member instead. That way, every Type is covered by at least one important trainer.

>Normal: Whitney
>Fighting: Chuck
>Flying: Falkner
>Poison: Koga, Janine
>Ground: New E4
>Rock: Brock
>Bug: Bugsy
>Ghost: Morty
>Steel: Jasmine
>Fire: Blaine
>Water: Misty
>Grass: Erika
>Electric: Lt. Surge
>Psychic: Will, Sabrina
>Ice: Pryce
>Dragon: Clair, Lance
>Dark: Karen

Gen 2 has loads of great Ground-Types to pick from as well.

>These teams are actually really good
are they? I couldn't tell because I swept all of them by clicking the A button.

I feel like Bruno being there is important to communicate that this is still the same organization as in RBY. Lance got promoted, Agatha died/retired, and Lorelei is focused on protecting Sevii, but Bruno is still there.
Just make the Giovanni event accessible without a mythical distribution.

>Sandslash: Lv. 42
>Nidoking: Lv. 42
>Nidoqueen: Lv. 42
>Quagsire: Lv. 43
>Donphan: Lv. 46

Honestly could work. It's miles better than Bruno's team anyway.

Koga is pretty cool and Karen is straight up one of the best E4 members in the series but the whole thing gets dragged down by Will and Bruno being really boring and Lance literally being the worst champion in the series

>Lorelei is focused on protecting Sevii
Didn't exist in Gen 2.
>Donphan
I've studied the Gen 2 games extensively. Gen 2 had some very strict rules when it came to team building for NPCs. One of them was not using version exclusives on in-game teams. This specific guideline was kind of thrown out by Crystal (two Pokéfans were added to Kanto Route 6, one with a Teddiursa and one with a Phanpy, but an argument could be made that they aren't version exclusives anymore because they can both be found in the wild in Crystal), but my point still stands for GS/HGSS. Replace the Donphan with a Golem or Rhydon or Dugtrio or something and make Quagsire his ace.

>actual articulate discussion about the games on Any Forums
First mistake. Should have made a strawman comic with jaks and nitpicked examples to enrage fans of a certain gen or game.
200+ replies guaranteed.

Bullshit. I just looked through the Gold source code and the only version exclusives not used by any trainers are Gligar (Gold), Ursaring (Gold), Mantine (Gold), Skarmory (Silver) and Donphan (Silver). There was even a pair of Twins in on the SS. Aqua who had a Teddiursa and Phanpy in GS, only their evolutions didn't appear in any teams.

Next time you try to act smart at least check your information is correct before embarrassing yourself like this.

>Gen 2 had some very strict rules when it came to team building for NPCs

which is backwards and bs because it makes it so that despite there being 252 programmed mons in the game you constantly see like, what, 50 species constantly? especially jarring when you consider the worst cliche in pokemon being the villain team spamming shitmons