Why can't the fans of these games admit that the level curve is a problem?

it's not level curve, all the new mons are useless. and guys like Ursaring, Donphan and especially Houndoom arent obtainable til lategame

Literally all you need to solo most of Johto is Graveler and some X Items. The rest can be handled by the myriad of nice Pokemon the game practically gives to you whether figuratively or literally like Gyarados, Electrode, Lapras, Umbreon, Crobat, Ampharos and Magneton.

Because level curve doesn't mean anything

Can someone explain to me what exactly the 'level curve' problem is?

Literally impossible, stop lying johtoschizos. I'll give an example. Whitney's Miltank is Lv 20. What's your team's level at that point? Let's say you're also at the same point. Morty's ace is at 25 and there's no way you gained ~5 levels on all your mons in such a short span. Then after that Chuck goes at 30. And you immediately fly back to Olivine where Jasmine is at 35. So how the fuck do you keep your entire team on around the same levels as the gym leaders throughout the game when there's barely any trainers on the already super short routes and all the wild pokemons are perma stuck at Lv. 18 so grinding is extremely tedious?

They can't admit any issues with the game.

You're supposed to fight Pryce before Chuck you mongoloid, on the way getting a red gyrados that helps the future fights.

Not everyone needs a full team of six Pokemon to get the job done, sperg.
Johto incentivizes either using items to compensate, or using 1-3 Pokemon so EXP flow can keep up with how thin the gaps between major events and boss fights are.

No, you're not. Pryce is the 7th gym leader. This "open world" bullshit is the thing that killed Johto and made a mess in the level curve.

Gyms 5-7 are on the same levels, then levels go up for the last rocket admin, new gym goes up, victory road goes down, elite four stays at the last gym level, then Kanto goes back to gyms 5-7
All of this happens with normal trainers barely getting up from 21, 30 in Kanto. You will be overleveled if you play normally
Basically thats it

Basically there aren't enough trainers in the game to keep a team balanced on a regular run. In addition because you can choose between going to olivine or mahogany first the trainers on those routes are roughly the same level meaning if you go to one the other won't give you a balanced amount of exp.

Also Pryce literslly goes down in level from Jasmine

I don't even use 6 and that's the only game in the entire franchise where I'm forced to do this. I use 5 and I still have issues.

Consider the idea that maybe GF did not want you to be at the same level as the gym leaders. Wouldn't that be something. Oh no, how can I possibly KO two magneton and a sunny day steelix if I'm not at level 35. If only they had weaknesses I could exploit.

You dont need items to compensate, itd be worrying if someone did. Despite the bad level curve the game is easy
Also, the "You should be using only 3 mons" is really stupid since literally nothing in the game even insinuates that
You can admit gen 2 has problems and still like it, i do too

Where does it say he's the seventh gym leader? If you want to apply the badge case logic, then Sinnoh's level curved is completely fucked.

Its normal for you to be underleveled in GSC but still get through things ok. Everyone fights Red with their Pokemon in the 60s, its not a big deal.

magnemite*

Zoomies suck at playing pokemon games without handholding and mandatory exp share for the whole team so they blame "scarce" exp.

>You dont need items to compensate, itd be worrying if someone did.
I don't know man, Clair's Kingdra having no weaknesses except Dragon (which has fuck all for moves at that point in the game) while packing Surf and Hyper Beam tells me you'll only manage with ludicrous amounts of luck, status moves or X Items.

Not really, since the game doesnt let you battle Fantina until later
Also, yes base DP also has a bad level curve, but in a different way

Retard, im 18 and i hate the new exp share (Or at least how it was implemented). But you can keep coping with your zoomer strawman all you want

The rest of her team is pathetic, you will probably have 6 mons ready to spam their strongest move

I mean I beat it just fine without using weaknesses. Weaknesses aren't always necessary.

>literal zoomer
git gud lmao

It only became a problem for the endgame superboss. Nothing else was a challenge because of my level. You're just bad at a children's game and you need to admit it.

there wasn't a level curve at all.
Wtf are you talking about?
Also these games were pregame for stadium2.

?

? Thats literslly what were saying

That's literally what OP is saying faggot, the shitty thing about Gen 2 is the lack of a level curve. It fucks the pacing of the game retard

What is OP's argument

I have no idea, i agree with the level curve being bad buti tend to disagree with people on how

Because the level curve isn’t that bad and is just a disingenuous made because shitposters needed a scapegoat.

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It's hilarious that you had to screencap your own post and kept the part that outs out as a total newfag.

>and some X Items
To be fair, it's basically an open secret that every single Pokemon game loses any semblance of difficulty if you actually make use of items. X Items are the worst example of this, but there's also a tremendous imbalance in healing item availability between the player and the AI.

Im not a shitposter, i like GSC but not recognizing its problems is disingenuous.
The game has its good points, the biggest one being graphics, its absolutely gorgeous, and the best looking Pokémon game to date

>barely any trainers
What the fuck are you talking about? If anything I end up being overleveled by the time I get to Clair.

Thar and the fact that he doesn't actually talk about the game or argue for it.

This. Do people really run the game with six at the very beginning? Depending on the game I get a new party member after every gym or every other gym. Whichever works better at that point.

Not him but there are only enough trainers if you just go through with one pokemon.

Bro your Tauros wild battles in GSC and Miltank/Gloom wild battles in the remakes? There's plenty of wild Pokémon that give decent experience. The level curve schizos are the same who complain about linearity in BW when there's plenty to explore in those games. Which makes the falseflagging discord Shitnnoh trannies all the more obvious.

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Are you as retarded as OP? I usually have a team of four by the time I hit Clair and I'm just fine in terms of leveling. Maybe you need to just stop sucking at a game I could beat when I was 8.

How the fuck is anyone underleveled in Johto? The gym leaders and E4 are all super weak compared to other games.

Unova's linearity is literally one of its good points. I dont know why you would these are the same people though

Based quads making retarded zoomers seethe.

Still doesn't state anywhere that Pryce is the 7th gym leader. Literally the only reason you think that is because he's number seven on the badge case, but DP shows that order doesn't matter.
So the argument about the level curve going up dramatically from Chuck, then back down again is fallacious, because you're given the option and incentive to battle Pryce after Chuck.
TL;DR Sinnohfag Discord raiders are retarded. QED.

>I usually have a team of four by the time I hit Clair and I'm just fine in terms of leveling.
Then you either had to grind or you're lying. It's quite literally impossible without focusing on one single pokemon.

Because most of the people complaining about the level curve are retards from upside-down world. The problem with it is that the enemy trainers' levels are too low for large segments making the games even easier and snooze-inducing than most gens. The problem is certainly *NOT* the game not handing out enough exp to level you adequately, because it absolutely does.

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Honestly, if you're going to shitpost and act like an issue only came about recently make sure people can't just do a five second Google search to prove you wrong. The level curve issue has been a complaint about the gen 2 games and their remakes for well over 10 years now across multiple sites.

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When does the game give you an incentive to battle Pryce before Jasmine. Youre actually more likely to do Jasmine first due to the medicine being found right next to Chuck.
Also im not a discord raider. The only discord servers im in are with my friends or vtuber fan servers

You can tell when someone is genuine or shitposting just by how they say the level curve affects the game

You're right, every time they say it's not an issue you can tell they're shitposting.

Go fuck yourself
Dont turn my statement into more of your shitposting

Case in point.

Face it Kanto shitters, You've been left behind.

Kill yourself. Im the zoomer that has been arguing about how Johtos level curve IS terrible. I just think youre a waste of space that doesnt have anything better to do with his life than to shit up a fucking Pokémon board, nobody will ever love you, your family thinks youre a disappointment and you have no one will ever truly love you. You should kill yourself

Hoenn babbies will forever fail to live up to it's legacy.

Sinnohcucks forever ass pained that Johto did a much better job representing traditional Japan.

Unovabortions continue seething to bring down other generations with them!

>49483847
>49483856
>49483873
Im struggling to understand what this person is trying to accomplish here

Kalos's discord hug box have picked a new target it seems, kek.

Something bad about Alola

Still not buying Sword and Shield

kek Johtoddlers have to false flag against themselves to get someone to say something nice about them

It's not that bad in GSC thanks to badge boosts. It really comes to shine in HGSS never rebalances the curve despite the removal of the system.

>I have your back
This implies Johto fans care about anything other than blindly clinging to nostalgia. I never see this posted when the johto defense force is attacking Unova.

>The level curve is bad!
HGSS ups trainer levels, can get the EXP share right after you beat Morty for underleveled party members

>The pokemon distribution!
HGSS adds the safari zone, making all but a small handful of the regional dex available

>Kanto is empty!
Fixed in HGSS

>The level up movesets suck!
Fixed in HGSS

>Johto pokemon are bad!
HGSS has cross gen evos for lesser mons, more held items, phys/spec split for pokemon like sneasel

>Evolution stones are only in kanto!
HGSS lets you get them by calling certain trainers on certain days, or the pokeathlon

>B-But-
Seethe more. HGSS are peak games that fixed every problem of johto. Btw PLA is kino, pokemon channel is the best spinoff and charizard is my favorite.

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Which part of JGSS attempting (mostly failing) to fix flaws suddenly makes GSC good games?

I'll be honest with you while I don't necessarily like the level curve once you have to deal with it once it's never a problem because you know how to prep for it, that being said I also like almost every other aspect about the game so dealing with one flaw is not a huge deal for me personally. I can accept and agree it could have been better made but I still love it so it's fine. What I don't like is when people push their flawed games as the best and their only argument is lel level curve lel Kanto part 2 but don't accept the flaws in their fucking games. They can't move on so I have to defend what I like

Houndoom in kanto! Chakemate

Because you suck, Jan.

This.
It's normal to have 5 mons at level 39ish to beat the league and 6 mons at level 53ish to beat Red in GSC. The badge boost will always make your Pokèmon outspeed and 1HKO supereffective hits.
HGSS is kind of grindy though.

You realized that specifically in GSC, in late game levels mean pretty much jack shit because of double Badge boosts, Stat Experience, NPCs having garbage DVs, 20% chances to miss any status move and being limited by AI coded for goddamn Gameboy? I destroyed Red, final superboss of this game, at level 50.
And that's the fucking problem of people criticizing Johto for ""bad"" level curve - you morons can't even grasp the idea that Gen II had vastly different mechanics than any later games so you look like a bunch of brain deficient clowns.
Also, worth noting - After defeating Morty you get Surf which conveniently opens few hidden places with high leveled for that part of the game Pokemon and trainers giving pretty hefty amounts of experience. It's not level curve that is problem here, it's your fucking laziness and inability to explore further than few steps away from "proper" route.

>HGSS ups trainer levels,
And lowers the majority including a few leaders.

>pokemon underleveled
>level it up
>pokemon overleveled
>switch it out for a low level mon

How do you people function in your day-to-day? Do you seriously play these games full of hundreds of potential party members and never once think to use more than six?

the badge boosts! this is why you can beat red with level 60s when he has level 80s

>HGSS ups trainer levels, can get the EXP share right after you beat Morty
Trainer levels tend to be lower across the board and that includes regular trainers.
>HGSS adds the safari zone, making all but a small handful of the regional dex available
The problem being that it takes days for the roster of Mon to change and it requires a guide to use since there's no indicator as to what decoration does what.
>Fixed in HGSS
False for both
>HGSS has cross gen evos for lesser mons, more held items, phys/spec split for pokemon like sneasel
Unfortunately that doesn't make them good pokemon since they still suck it comes to moveset and stats. Their designs aren't very appealing either.
>HGSS lets you get them by calling certain trainers on certain days, or the pokeathlon
Which only adds additional tedium to the game, I mean imagine having to do contests or Musicals for a chance of an evo stone. You would think that they would just add a new stone seller but they didn't.
>HGSS are peak games that fixed every problem of johto.
Which is what you zoomers would like to believe. Instead it gussied it up with bells and whistles without addressing the issues

>>pokemon underleveled
>>level it up
>>pokemon overleveled
>>switch it out for a low level mon
Have you only ever played johto games?
Good rpgs don't do that.

>Good rpgs don't give you reasons to try new party members and options.
Your good rpgs fucking sucks ass.

he is the 7th badge in the ordering, idiot.

Great post that will be ignored because it is inconvenient for genwar faggots and people who speak from a position of ignorance unable to process the information they've just been given.
I really have to laugh when people acknowledge the newer games sucking shit and they say "Pokémon fans deserve better!" No they don't. Not if people who play the games through without exploring or bothering to learn anything more than the superficial about its mechanics are what pass as legitimate fans these days.

Three mid-game gym leaders in Johto are supposed to be open ended and you can do them in any fucking sequence you want. Personally i like to go Rocket Hideout -> Pryce -> Lighthouse -> Chuck -> Jasmine because it smoothers out supposedly "bad" level curve and there's nothing story-wise clashing against it besides lol badges on trainer card but you really, really must have serious case of autism if this is a dealbreaker for you.

Because I was able to beat it as a kid multiple times and never remember having difficulty with it

The problem isn't having too little experience, and I have no idea why people act like that's the issue. It's exactly the opposite: For huge stretches of the game, the levels of all the Trainers (including the bosses) are extremely stagnant. So the difficulty curve is essentially sloping downward for the middle stretch of Johto and all of Kanto up to the last Gym Leader. And thanks to all the stuff you listed off, the game would be easy enough even if you were on an even keel with your opponents level-wise.

I don't give a shit if you're a lower level than the superboss. I would generally expect that to be the case given that he's an extra post-game challenge. The issue is the other ~50% of the game where your opponents are complete shit. What is the final Rocket boss doing with 2/3rds of his team being NFE and none of them having a move with more than 60 BP? Why does the sixth Gym Leader have two Magnemites? Chuck's Poliwrath is probably the only thing in that whole stretch that poses any threat, and that's if you fight him as early as possible.

Because it's fun ya zoomer

Are you kidding, I genuinely thought the reason people complained about the level curve in this game was because it's too easy. It's the easiest gen up until we entered the babby era

I didn't have issues with it. Git gud you fucking zoomer.

I remember when my mom told me she could only buy me one of these games and then she surprised me with all 3 and I was incredibly happy

>It's too hard!
>It's too easy!
That means it's just right this they are the perfect and best games
>Inb4 Sinnoh butt hurt

Because difficulty in Jrpg is a lie, duh.
Or, more correctly - it depends greatly on your playstyle and choices. Sure as fuck you'll breeze easily through entire game if you're powergaming hard but question - why are you doing it? Just drop into your team some lesser Pokemon or actually be underleveled and have your challenge. RPG genre has probably most modal difficulty settings from all games build into the core of it because it hinges on player's agency and choices.

>Buying the same game three times
She got scammed.

I haven't met anyone in real life that died to Whitney. The internet has all of the retards.

so like, the only time GSC's level curve was clearly a ridiculous issue was when you reached Kanto, where levels just stop going up until you fight Blue (and everyone is likely well below you and since levels flatline hard, it never gets close), and then Red, who both have wild jumps vs everything before them

otherwise, I'd train a full team of 6 and it didn't seem like I was overleveled or underleveled, and I've played through Gold upwards of seven times at this point

Back in the days when everyone played the Gen I/II games on the gameboy, you'd explore and battle a lot of wild pokemon, not try to speed run or do "muh nuzlocke" """""""challenges""""""". To add to that, battling with friends at school was a common thing.

If "muh level curve" bothers you, play with a rom hack which "fixes" it.

.Yeah, and among others that's what i said you dumbfuck. "Level curve" is non-issue in Johto because there's plenty of good grinding spots hidden behind surf HM + in late game levels are not even that relevant.
I'm starting to see why some people are mocking us, enjoyers of Johto. If people with no reading skills like you are representing us then it's quite a saddening thing.

>Not fighting the elite 4 with all Lvl 40 pokemon.
People who overlevel have no honor.

35 Is fine.

The level curve post-Kanto always confused me. Some of those mons go down into the 20s. The only reason I can figure is that GF expected you to catch new Pokemon (like the previously unavailable 2nd gen mons Slugma, Houndour, Misdreavus and Murkrow) and raise them in Kanto, but even that feels kinda wrong given that the game only has a few roadblocks remaining at that point and the areas could vary wildly in levels.

*post-Johto

Imagine actually being unable to beat a fucking Pokemon game because 'le level curve is le bad'.

I've never heard a more pathetic cope.

Zoomers are retarded and so around 2012 when they were starting to learn how to use the internet, they started complaining that they were too retarded to beat GSC or HGSS.

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I'm pretty sure that GF intended player to have already fully developed team and stick to it, with changes still being an option for people that want to use newly available Pokemon. Remember - you're not locked to stay in Kanto and can backtrack to train in Victory Road, for example.
Also, while you'll not get a lot of levels in Kanto, you'll still be gaining stat experiences and type-boosts from badges so your Pokemon will become slowly stronger, just that one number next to name of your Pokemon will become less relevant.

...Speaking of that i just realized pretty funny thing. Because there's no Dark-type gym in Gen 2 (Green's gym still counts as Ground-type) your Dark-type attacks will effectively always be bit weaker than other types, not counting other modifiers like STAB and SE.

It's still wacky to me knowing now that badge boosts are real. As a kid, I always assumed they were bull and the only thing that changed was traded Pokémon's loyalty.

The more I have to go out of my way to make a game challenging, the worse it is. That's why, even though main series Pokemon games have always been extremely easy (outside of the post-game), I'm still critical of the newer games taking steps to make them even easier. Once we've reached the point where I'm deliberately gimping my team and actively avoiding experience that's right in front of my face, I'm prepared to call that poor game design.

That's not to say that I find Johto or GSC poorly designed as a whole, but the difficulty curve is all kinds of messed up.

Yeah given that Kanto is essentially a post-game boss rush, I think it was a misstep to place so many of the coolest Gen II Pokemon there. And I say this as someone who is, overall, very positive towards GSC's design philosophy of making the new Pokemon a little bit trickier to find. But you've got these two new types, Steel and Dark, and you can hardly use one of them until after the end credits roll.

Shit, if you want to use a Dark type, you've got to evolve your Eevee into Umbreon. And two of the coolest Steel types require that you get extremely lucky with item drops from Magnemite or wait until the S.S. Aqua.

Liar.

Gyms 5-7 are on the same levels except Jasmine who is 4-5 levels higher. Levels go up for last Rocket Admin, Gym 8 is 5 levels higher than Jasmine and a few levels higher than last Rocket Admin, Victory Road trainers are the same level as Jasmine, Elite Four is 3-9 levels higher than Gym 8, then Kanto Gyms are the same level as the Elite Four except Janine who is lower, and Blue who is higher.
Kanto trainers are in the mid to high 30s. Everytime I've played with a full team I am on par or slightly underlevelled with the current enemy.

Stop pretending you've played the games when you clearly haven't.