>be enlightened lib before transitioning
>think men and women are basically the same mentally except for differences caused by socialization
>give or take
>transition
>feel better
>find out that it's actually not all socialization
>learn about sex differences
>read about what e does to a motherfucker
>shit some of this seems kind of cringe
>have to transition anyway because i feel bad otherwise
why are women underpowered
Be enlightened lib before transitioning
Brayden Murphy
Samuel Martinez
women need a buff
Tyler Watson
idk I mean women get quite a buff socially speaking, as long as you pass
Alexander Brooks
Men are the disposable sex, women are overpowered when it comes to deciding who gets to reproduce (except for surprise sex)
Jack Jenkins
Lmoa never say this shit on /tttt/
Troons will always give you some delusional blackpill shit
Nolan Mitchell
i still think socialization is a huge part of it but your biology determines how you react to the socialization
if women get buffed then men completely fall out of the meta
Noah Hughes
>be enlightened lib before transitioning
>think men and women are basically the same mentally except for differences caused by socialization
im still an enlightened lib for all intents and purposes but can like sorta relate to that part
theres just... not much point to my whole lived experience if gender is _all_ social? social stuff also doesnt explain why my brain seems to function better on estrogen? could still be mostly social i guess, but there just has to be some more innate aspect to it too
Levi Wilson
Only fertile women. Women post menopause are more disposable than any man in the history of mankind.
Jayden Lewis
>lose out on emotional toughness, risk tolerance and mental rotation/advanced math skills
>gain empathy, skill with language, and self-preservation
doesn't seem balanced to me. especially if current hormone levels somehow actually influence interests in a gendered way like prenatal ones do. that would be bad.
>idk I mean women get quite a buff socially speaking, as long as you pass
being coddled and condescended to doesn't seem very good to me. people still think less of you, even if they like you and are nice to you.
and anyway i won't pass.
>Men are the disposable sex, women are overpowered when it comes to deciding who gets to reproduce (except for surprise sex)
i don't want to reproduce i want to turn people into dinosaurs
>i still think socialization is a huge part of it but your biology determines how you react to the socialization
that's a big part of it, no doubt
>if women get buffed then men completely fall out of the meta
hard disagree. if i weren't trans i'd assign my stat points differently.
don't get me wrong, gender identity is not all social, but i thought that in terms of patterns of thinking and the like men and women were more similar than they actually are.
Chase Murphy
They've been caretakers throughout history
Angel Hernandez
I hope it doesn't kill my abstract thinking and math ability. Social buffs beyond empathy/language skills include more 'privilege', people being more receptive to your mistakes/ineptitude, holding doors open, more willing to help, letting you cross the road. But yeah you lose out elsewhere here too, like people assuming you're generally incompetent and incapable, but I've not experienced it. I find the idea of that quite fun actually, someone assuming you're rarted, then you completely dunk on them with your career/achievements and knowledge.
also
>i don't want to reproduce i want to turn people into dinosaurs
based
Brayden Perry
>I hope it doesn't kill my abstract thinking and math ability.
afaik it doesn't relate to most forms of abstract thinking. just to mental rotation, spatial reasoning, and things that are mediated by them (i.e. complex math). even here kill is an overstatement. after all plenty of women are capable of those things. if there is an effect then it's just a shift in ability, not a switch.
it's not even clear to what degree currently circulating sex hormones affect these things. one meta-analysis found that most studies do suggest that there's the expected shift in spatial and verbal abilities, while another meta-analysis found that transitioning only has positive cognitive effects. which.. hmm lol. i don't know how to make sense of that. in any case the literature is limited by the follow-up period, with most studies only looking at short-term effects. things might change down the line. anecdotally some trans people reported that they did for them so i'm kind of concerned.
i still thought all of this was a bit bullshit until i realized i became more sensitive.. so now i don't know what to expect.
>Social buffs beyond empathy/language skills include more 'privilege', people being more receptive to your mistakes/ineptitude, holding doors open, more willing to help, letting you cross the road. But yeah you lose out elsewhere here too, like people assuming you're generally incompetent and incapable, but I've not experienced it.
idk i still think women generally have it worse socially. being infantilized isn't great most of the time, even if people are nicer to you.
as an uggo trans woman i won't even get that anyway.
>I find the idea of that quite fun actually, someone assuming you're rarted, then you completely dunk on them with your career/achievements and knowledge.
this sounds fun in a trollish sort of way until you have to deal with it constantly or you lose out on opportunities because of it. it'd suck to know my loved ones look down on me.
Josiah Wood
Yeah I doubt HRT has much of an impact on cognitive abilities. Maybe some, but I imagine a lot of it is simply correlation and down to other means. There'd need to be a proper scientific study done for anything conclusive. In my case, there's too many other factors to say for certain, and I imagine it's the same for everyone else claiming severe cognitive impairments from HRT. Like recently I've noticed a small decline in my working vocabulary and ability to recall, but I seriously doubt HRT has anything to do with it in my case.
>being infantilized isn't great most of the time
I've spent most of my life being infantilized, so I'm used to it. Entire life has been based around the premise of showing to others that I'm not rarted.
>as an uggo trans woman i won't even get that anyway.
Yeah I'm sorry anonette, you're not wrong, sending hugs this sounds fun in a trollish sort of way until you have to deal with it constantly or you lose out on opportunities because of it. it'd suck to know my loved ones look down on me.
It's definitely fun, I'm a unique case where the position I hold in my career and my accomplishments alongside it put me in a position of authority and power, so I'm fortunate in that regard (re: opportunities). No discrimination from my peers, but yeah it's fun when you're socializing with someone who has no context or foreknowledge of yourself. Revealing little parts about yourself piecemeal, or all at once, is especially more fun when the context of the conversation regards something you're accomplished in.
Hudson Moore
>Yeah I doubt HRT has much of an impact on cognitive abilities
It’s generally believed that MtF hrt slightly decreases spatial ability and increases verbal, FtM hrt does the opposite.
It’s not a drastic difference but neither is the biological difference between cis men and women in that regard.
With spatial/verbal ability in particular it is speculated that differences in childhood socialization play a dominant role (for example boys getting more lego bricks and related, girls being encouraged to read more).
Similarly we don’t even know how much of the differences in male and female brain structure are innate and how much is the product of current environment.
>another meta-analysis found that transitioning only has positive cognitive effects
That’s unfortunately not very informative considering how depressed and brainfogged pre-hrt trannies tend to be
Christopher Hughes
>With spatial/verbal ability in particular it is speculated that differences in childhood socialization play a dominant role (for example boys getting more lego bricks and related, girls being encouraged to read more).
>Similarly we don’t even know how much of the differences in male and female brain structure are innate and how much is the product of current environment.
Neat && interdasting. Wish academia wasn't so dominated by capitalism so we could actually get funding to look into stuff like this.
Christian Ramirez
>i don't want to reproduce i want to turn people into dinosaurs
too bad, what you think is immaterial to what evolution designed you for
Colton Davis
Women are OP, men can't cry as much, it fucking sucks to not be able to cry
Levi Smith
>That’s unfortunately not very informative considering how depressed and brainfogged pre-hrt trannies tend to be
I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I'm in this photo and I don't like it. Used to be borderline genius, but puberty nuked all of my potential. When focusing on reality for more than ten seconds causes pain and discomfort, you eventually just... stop trying. What's more, you actively avoid experiencing your own body.
These days it's just sleep deprivation, shitposting, and vidya
Ayden Miller
>Yeah I doubt HRT has much of an impact on cognitive abilities.
estimating the size of the effect is hard but i'd expect it to exist based on everything i wrote, personally
>Like recently I've noticed a small decline in my working vocabulary and ability to recall, but I seriously doubt HRT has anything to do with it in my case.
hmm. are you on anti-androgens? what's your regimen?
>Yeah I'm sorry anonette, you're not wrong, sending hugs I've spent most of my life being infantilized, so I'm used to it. Entire life has been based around the premise of showing to others that I'm not rarted.
sounds annoying
Samuel Nelson
>It’s not a drastic difference but neither is the biological difference between cis men and women in that regard.
i don't think it's likely to be huge or anything, generally speaking, but the difference in mental rotation is pretty large
i'm not worried about the non-cognitive aspects, personally. they are less quantifiable and thus more spooky. some anecdotes report changes in interests and while i used to think that this was due to roundabout non-biological effects i'm not entirely sure now. having experienced hrt potentially playing with my variables by making me more emotionally sensitive is making me rethink things. though i'm not even sure about me so who knows. something else could have happened on that front.
>With spatial/verbal ability in particular it is speculated that differences in childhood socialization play a dominant role (for example boys getting more lego bricks and related, girls being encouraged to read more).
how do girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia compare to boys when it comes to mental rotation and the like?
>That’s unfortunately not very informative considering how depressed and brainfogged pre-hrt trannies tend to be
kind of. while it might be downstream from a generalized boost in mood it was found that ftms showed gains in male-dominated domains and mtfs showed gains in one narrow female-dominated domain (the researchers speculated that the lower gains for mtfs were down to the absence of progesterone, which is associated with more generalized verbal abilities). so, yes, the boost in mood could have precisely cancelled out the hormone-induced loss, but this seems like an unlikely coincidence.
frankly i'm confused by how two meta-analyses can contradict another this significantly.
evolution designed everyone to reproduce though nony. some people turn people into dinosaurs anyhow.
you're not selling me here.
Carter Evans
>Females with CAH (exposed to higher than normal levels of androgen prenatally) performed better than unaffected females on the targeting tasks, and resembled unaffected males and males with CAH in this respect. However, females with CAH did not perform better than unaffected females on the measures of mental rotations abilities.
>..
>Specifically, we speculate that, although androgen may influence targeting abilities prenatally, if hormones influence the development of mental rotations ability, they do so at some other time, perhaps during the first six months of postnatal life.
researchgate.net
interesting. wonder if it depends on circulating levels, if the researchers were right, or if you're right and life experiences play a significant role.
i very vaguely recall a study that compared the spatial abilities of women who did not live in the first world and who routinely worked with their hands with those of women from industrialized nations. the hypothesis was that there would be a difference, but none was found. however i don't remember which abilities the study measured in specific or whether the methodology was sound. furthermore maybe only some kinds of physical labor count. the researchers figured carrying and positioning logs ought help but who knows if that assumption is right.
i'd be surprised if upbringing had *no* effect but i'm not sure it dwarfs biological factors, on average.
Angel King
>hmm. are you on anti-androgens? what's your regimen?
I just started up again after being off HRT for a while. Have only been on the following for 2.1 weeks. At the moment I'm using:
>25mg Cyproterone Acetate
>6mg Estrogen Hemihydrate, buccally
>100mg Oral Progesterone
(Also yea ik it seems like I'm starting high and starting with prog but w/e just following my endo's advice, another blood panel + review due in 2 months anyway)
I just started 1mg Finasteride a day or two ago too and a bunch of other topical hair loss agents.
I think my current brainfog regarding vocabulary is down to the fact I've spent the past month spiraling over my situation and coming to terms with having to start from scratch again with my transition, and the hair loss. Generally there's too many external factors for me to be certain. Brain damage due to injuries and drug abuse, erratic sleep schedule and weed usage, (potential) untreated ADHD, other (untreated, but diagnosed) mental illnesses like BPD and Major Depressive Disorder. My main problems right now are a noticeable degradation in being able to spell, sentence structure, recall and vocabulary, ability to think and hold a train of thought. But I spend most days dissociated, so it's not like I'm in touch with the world whatsoever.
Ryan Mitchell
thanks for indulging me.
for how long have you been off hrt? for how long have you been on it previously? what's your treatment history?
>25mg Cyproterone Acetate
sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is higher than is necessary in most cases according to modern best practices. just 10 typically works fine. unless you're unusual in some way something's off.
in any case cyproterone acetate has been associated with cognitive issues in some rare cases.
>I think my current brainfog regarding vocabulary is down to the fact I've spent the past month spiraling over my situation and coming to terms with having to start from scratch again with my transition, and the hair loss. Generally there's too many external factors for me to be certain. Brain damage due to injuries and drug abuse, erratic sleep schedule and weed usage, (potential) untreated ADHD, other (untreated, but diagnosed) mental illnesses like BPD and Major Depressive Disorder.
that's reasonable. depression and the like absolutely can have negative cognitive effects.
>My main problems right now are a noticeable degradation in being able to spell, sentence structure, recall and vocabulary, ability to think and hold a train of thought. But I spend most days dissociated, so it's not like I'm in touch with the world whatsoever.
sorry to hear that. i hope you get well soon.
to clarify, all of this significantly worsened since you went on hormone replacement therapy? just a bit over two weeks ago?
i've been on cyproterone in the past and have noticed a minor tendency to mix up similar-sounding words.